Satan: Virtuous
- Thread starter Norsefire
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Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I thought Satan was originally on God's side, and responsible for punishing the evil doers, rather than God's enemy?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Yes, but he dared stand up to God.
The Bible also teaches that God predestines people to heaven and hell, that salvation itself is not based on any freewill decision made by man (according to Paul's teachings), and that the "truth" is deliberately hidden from the very people who need it most, to prevent them from ever repenting and from ever being saved.
You already know about all of this but you apparently reject the words of your own Bible if they disagree with your own view of things.
You usually only present your own biased view of the Bible as fact and typically condemn anyone else who might dare to disagree with you to hell, because you "love" them.
Anyway, sorry if I am a pain to you.
Ah, so basically, the whole Biblical history was kind of a pack social pissing contest...what with 'ye shall have no other gods' etc...
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
It is impossible to separate this metaphorical Satan you're discussing from the Devil character that has been a part of Christian culture for millennia.
Take the story of creation; what was his real motive in tempting Eve? There was no need to encourage 'indulgence' in a place of such plenty and pleasure - the couple had everything they could ever want. Instead, the Devil saw what God had created and resented the fact that he would never have the power or ability to do the same. So, out of spite, he took pleasure in provoking the destruction of this Utopia.
Satan is the very epitome of the little man. He has never achieved or created anything except destruction. He represents all the ugliness and evils of an over-inflated ego. As a result he remains a symbol of loneliness, paranoia and bitterness, along with how these can all twist our purpose.
Of course, this is all an elaborate metaphor concerning human nature. We all have these Satanic traits within us, and these will always hold us back from perfection. We are condemned to a life of self-inflicted hardships.
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DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
I heard this once from a Christian show I was watching, it has some relevance. The man stated, "The greatest triumph that satan achieved as to make people disbelieve in him." Namely, the rejection of the devil inevitable leads to the view that ego, selfishness, and greed are undeniable parts of a human being, and need to be quenched to satisfy him. Religious people know these are moral flaws originating from the devil, but those who reject God hold these the base urges of all humans. This is how materialism as a philosophy was born, and this eventually leads us to capitalism. These a material doctrines denouncing God, atheism, neo-paganism, and satanism are the spiritual doctrines of satan.
You should watch this program, it is very informative. Some views expressed, especially in the last few minutes of this interview are false and propaganda for the particular church in question. Besides that, this video should be viewed. This is an interview from an avowed satanist, who details his experiences with worshipers of the devil. Have some patience when viewing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkcy3cux1B4&feature=channel_page
DiamondHearts, you have spectacularly missed the point of this thread.
Cellar Door, in the Garden of Eve they had plenty but God still banned Adam and Eve from indulging in the tree of knowledge or whatever it was called.
Satan tempted them and showed them the freedom of indulging their wills and passions. He did want them to disobey god, but only for them to realize freedom.
Satan tempted them and showed them the freedom of indulging their wills and passions. He did want them to disobey god, but only for them to realize freedom.
That is correct. But it is from His foreknowledge that He predestines.
Paul never preached this. But men of limited thinking interpreted it as such. They where and are mistaken.
It is hidden from some indeed, those who have rejected the love of the truth and loved unrighteousness. It is hidden from those who do not believe they need repentance. Indeed they feel insulted when they are called upon to repent.
Oh yes i know all about this and i have revealed it to you and sought to correct your view on it. But you have stubbornly rejected correction and hold onto a lie and preach the lie as if it where biblical truth. Woe to you if you do not repent of it.
Warning people of the eternal consequence of rejecting the love of the truth is an act of Love believe you me. Standing back and holding ones tongue and not giving a warning, now there would be an act of hatred.
Naaa your not a pain at all. Your continual repetition of the issue gives me an opportunity to give continual correction so that others may see. You’re a blessing to me and the Word of God even if you yourself are cursed.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
It's all Christian propaganda, which is the Hart Research's primary goal; evangelism. Hardly informative.
According to Islamic theology Idris is a fallen angel who whispers in the hearts and minds of men.
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
There is no concept of fallen angels in Islam. Iblis (I think you made a typo) is a Jinn, which roughly equivalent to the Christian concept of demon, though not all jinn are technically evil, some are believers in God as well.
By the way, You and Adstar should watch the link I posted in my previous post. I want to hear your thoughts, it is pretty interesting.
Well,
Paul does say that salvation does not depend on the man who wills (freewill) or the man who runs (works) but on God who has mercy. And there are many denominations that teach this very thing. I did not invent either the text or this viewpoint. Millions of people believe this is true.
Even my own church teaches this. They all think that they are "the chosen", "the elect", people of God who are being led by the Holy Spirit just like you do but they would disagree with you on this. Why are you correct? Are you more righteous than they are? Are you smarter or wiser than them? Are you more spiritual? Why are you correct and why are they wrong? Is it just because they disagree with you? Is that all it takes?
It is all way too confusing for me, and the more I try to figure it all out, and I have tried for many years, the more confusing it becomes. So I have finally just given up trying to figure it all out and try to just live my life as much as is possible with respect and love for everyone I come in contact with.
I am, of course, imperfect in this endeavor but it usually works out pretty well. I am a much better person than I used to be, when I thought I had all the answers. And I am a whole lot less judgmental of others around me. I realize now how arrogant I was.
Thanks!
Firstly, I think you'll find it's the Garden of Eden. Secondly, God did no such thing. He said they could have as much from it as they liked once the fruit had become ripe. In the time being, they could eat and do anything else that took their fancy.
Realise their freedom? That's what he professed to be doing, but you should realise that the Devil/Snake has always embodied dishonesty and duplicity. In this story, Satan is representative of that destructive 'little voice' inside all of our heads that defies logic and reason with wilful desire. That might sound attractive and racy to you, but in reality the Devil was purely Eve's need defy authority.
I once read that the best way to describe the Devil is ejaculation. A strange analogy, granted, but hear me out. When we are about to have sex, or when we are involved in the act itself, we are completely blinded by our lust. What we are doing maybe be completely wrong, we may be hurting ourselves, them or someone else, but we don't care. That is the Devil within us. Especially after the male release, often we feel a wave of momentary depression when all the lies we have told ourselves in the lead up to that moment are stripped away to reveal the reality. Too late, our primal desires (the Devil) have already got what they wanted from us.
Satan represents self-dishonesty and ultimately stupidity.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I have suggested no such thing. We are discussing Satan, and what parts of human nature his character embodies. God is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Of course, but isn't Satan pretty much the opposite of God, according to the scriptures ?
If anything, I'd say that God represents good and Satan represents evil.