*(*Sacramental Religious Experience*)*

[duendy]

So, i have made up a term, 'the 'PATRIX'----see abovepost wherei talk about this. to reiterate, i qas going to use term 'matrix' but suddenly thoght of patrix. reason i dont want to use matrix for what i'm about to explore is tat, from the PAtriarchal perspective they view Nature as a trap, a seductice--always female--temptress enticing 'mle heroic spirit' away from his goal--the 'pure spirit'. so for example we have the
eastern terms/interpretations, 'MAya' and 'MAra' to mean 'illusion' and delusion'---ie., Nature-entanglement'engulfment' of th 'male mind'. 'matrix has definition, 'female womb'. so i have rather decided to use theterm 'PAtrix' to describe the patrirchal cage that oppresses, not just us, but all other species, and Nature itself. THAT is what i want to now explore:

where do we begin?
a really fascinating book called 'Shamanism: TheFoundations of Magic', by Ward Ruterford, argues that te male heroic fear of te female begins, or is prominent in male-heavy shamanism....!
The may surpise many people, because it's assumed that shamanism is our oldest spiritual primal beginnings. but not so. for shamanism came from Goddess stream.

According to Rutherford, male shamanism typically sawthe more open Goddess vegetative religious rituals here everyone becomes 'possessed' as a threat to his authority, and that his great enimies were female goddesses, usually 'underground' and at te bottom of the sea, etc.
Ruterford also stresses that shamanic revivals have always been with te well-off people, the middle classes, whilst Goddess orietned orgiastic rituals , with people of theland, women, slaves, dark-skinned people and so on.
let me explore difference between 'orgia' and shamanic ritual. in the former, ALL participants would eat a sacrament and have communal group ecstatic expression,in a celebratory way. where shamanic culture it is usually the shaman who performs the role as contacter of 'spirit world' or being 'possessed' etc
This not to say that in the Goddess steam there wouldn't have been shamns, usuall women. i am meaning when a RIVALRY happens between MALE-oriented shamanism and Goddess vegeatative religion. then happens a rift.
For when male authroritarianism happens in the rooe of te shaman 'middle-man' who claims only he can contact an 'invisible world', surely that is when this disenfranschises people from theirOWn ecstatic direct participatory freedoms. and this maybe the bluep-rint for patriarchal religions where we ALS have middlemen between us and actual sacramenal xperience....

more. mucx more to xplore about this PATRIX....later...

feel free to join in an get yer feet wet

 

[SnakeLord]

me)))))this 'living longer' is what you materialists shout the loudest, as thpugh it is a great thing. that you havebeaten Nature. cause that's howi see the patriarchal trip. you want to 'put-right- Nature, eventually maybeeven trying to defeat death, and aging....riiight?

Well, I've never really considered myself a "materialist", and nor have I really ever given much thought to living forever. Indeed, I am generally against any life that is even remotely eternal. While I love my family, and do enjoy life to it's fullest, I don't really see the value in living for 50 billion billion gazillion years. The 80 or so years is pretty much fine with me, other than the fact that for the first 20 years we're stupid and for the latter 20 years we are probably crippled or mentally devoid. For another 13 or so years we're asleep.. and that is where my quarrel lies.

However, it's well worth noting that the fact I posted had nothing to do with materialism or eternal life. I do believe I mentioned this on my last post, and can only suggest that you take the time to read it.

so, mr snakelord, what have we got in your brave new world, hey?

Well, certainly a lot more than naked people running round eating 'shrooms.

well i see too many of us. that soon its gonna be overburdened with oldies.

Where is the relevance to running round naked eating 'shrooms?

me)))how do you read snakelord. take offa your cynical specs and learn to read wit insight. your interpretation is gross and superficial and silly.

My response is based upon the answer I got concerning the question I asked with relevance to your piss-poor written post. If I have gone wrong somewhere, it is undoubtedly because you failed to answer the question I asked you. Instead I had to rely on someone elses answer - because they had the decency to answer it. If they're wrong, let them know - and let me know so I can ammend my post. As for my 'specs', they're not the best brand ever and as such give trouble when trying to decipher 2 year olds writing. If you want to be understood Duendy.. make the fucking effort.

for if so you may have gleaned that many people really do have distress, and generally more and more people are on so-called psychiatric 'medication', living frantic meaningless lives saturated wit consumerism, being manipulated by oppressive powers. just cause you aren't aware of tis doesn't mean others aren't or dont feel it.

As a psychiatrist, I see more of that every single day than you'll see in a lifetime. Your links are not really news to me - and yet I still find myself wondering what any of this has to do with running round naked eating 'shrooms.

Btw, I accept your apology for making such a blatant error in your teeny weeny opinion of what I am or am not aware of.

how can i communicae with you about tis with your attitude. you who dont even absorb whats been said already, or looks at links? how....?

I actually absorb everything - albeit I have a harder time doing so when the writing is as bad as yours is, but this isn't about attitude.. it's discussion. I was told you believe people should be running around naked eating 'shrooms. I have refuted this notion briefly and you have problem with that while being clearly unable to say why.

It is hardly my fault if I do not understand your posts. My 6 year old girl has a better grasp of writing than you do. I remember you already telling me that you type the way you do because, to paraphrase, you're damn lazy. If you expect a decent discussion, I expect you to type in a manner that is legible. If you don't do that, who is to blame if I don't understand exactly what you're trying to say?

me)))you man tat aburd provocative---'why dont we all smoke dope all day?' or something like that? hardly worth me time mate.

A) We ain't "mates".

B) Given the disgusting writing that you used, I needed to ask the question. That was about as much as I could grasp from it. Look at any and every post you've written and you'll see what I mean.. "tat aburd" <-- what the fuck is that?

The problem lies right there.

me)))well, tellus then . why do YOU tink people hafve stress, and there is more an more of it in mdern world? and what would be your approach to this exstential problem?

Firstly: I would ask that you justify your claim that there is more stress in the modern world.

Secondly: People have always and will always have stress. It comes with life.

Thirdly: The "approach" is generally different for everyone. Some drink themselves stupid, some.. like you.. eat magic mushrooms, some become religious, and some, (or I would be out of a job), go to see shrinks. While the former examples are the faster way to "forgetting" your problems, they are not a solution.

If you are trying to get me to advocate eating 'shrooms before getting professional help you might aswell pull up a chair, 'cause you're gonna be here a long time.

me)))we have had enough of your mechancial mindsets' 'cold hard facts'. cold hard facts come from a cold hard rigid brain!

Perhaps, but better a rigid brain than one that rattles about in the skull - and slips out the ear when you're not looking.

 

[c7ityi_]

what should one believe? patriarchal mushrooms, atheism, agnostic, islam, christianity, buddhism or... just myself?

everyone says they're right, and that i should follow them, but i can't follow everyone. so it just means... everyone's right and everyone follows themselves. "i am the way, truth and life"

---

duendy, why do you oppress machines and computers?! they're also alive and part of your living matter-energy nature, right?

i agree with you that everything is alive, so don't be angry at me.

 

[duendy]

Well, I've never really considered myself a "materialist", and nor have I really ever given much thought to living forever.

me)))do you believe consciousness is a product of the brain? do you not keep harpin on about how much longer we live now?

Indeed, I am generally against any life that is even remotely eternal. While I love my family, and do enjoy life to it's fullest, I don't really see the value in living for 50 billion billion gazillion years. The 80 or so years is pretty much fine with me, other than the fact that for the first 20 years we're stupid and for the latter 20 years we are probably crippled or mentally devoid. For another 13 or so years we're asleep.. and that is where my quarrel lies.

However, it's well worth noting that the fact I posted had nothing to do with materialism or eternal life. I do believe I mentioned this on my last post, and can only suggest that you take the time to read it.

Well, certainly a lot more than naked people running round eating 'shrooms.

me))))))whata wit this ' naked people running round eating mushrooms'-?? i am not doing tis. people i know who have partaken musrhoom sacraments aren't doing this---though you CAN of curse. so what is this constant descriptor about....? hey?

Where is the relevance to running round naked eating 'shrooms?

me))agin. see it!


My response is based upon the answer I got concerning the question I asked with relevance to your piss-poor written post. If I have gone wrong somewhere, it is undoubtedly because you failed to answer the question I asked you. Instead I had to rely on someone elses answer - because they had the decency to answer it. If they're wrong, let them know - and let me know so I can ammend my post. As for my 'specs', they're not the best brand ever and as such give trouble when trying to decipher 2 year olds writing. If you want to be understood Duendy.. make the fucking effort.

me))))apart from not grasping what's been said, and being able t read te LINKS? yu seem to be doin alright understanding me. so pullleze stop making it an issue. i am so familiar with THAt ploy. it is borng
and if you suffer so. go away. why keep coming back....?


As a psychiatrist,

me))))))ahhhhh A psychiatrist hey...?

I see more of that every single day than you'll see in a lifetime. Your links are not really news to me - and yet I still find myself wondering what any of this has to do with running round naked eating 'shrooms.

me))))howmany times now, 5, 7,.22? "running round naked eatng'shrooms'
i MIGHT count from your first post. if i get incredibly bored that is.

Btw, I accept your apology for making such a blatant error in your teeny weeny opinion of what I am or am not aware of.



I actually absorb everything - albeit I have a harder time doing so when the writing is as bad as yours is, but this isn't about attitude.. it's discussion. I was told you believe people should be running around naked eating 'shrooms.[[[[[[[[YET AGIN!!!]]]]]]]

I have refuted this notion briefly and you have problem with that while being clearly unable to say why.

It is hardly my fault if I do not understand your posts. My 6 year old girl has a better grasp of writing than you do. I remember you already telling me that you type the way you do because, to paraphrase, you're damn lazy. If you expect a decent discussion, I expect you to type in a manner that is legible. If you don't do that, who is to blame if I don't understand exactly what you're trying to say?

me)))likei said. itis NOT that i am 'lazy' it is combination of me playing wit type/text and a crap keyboard, and limited time when online. so theres pressure. tis is alst time i will tell you. IF you findme so illegible, then go...a----way then.

A) We ain't "mates".

me))ok mate

B) Given the disgusting writing that you used, I needed to ask the question. That was about as much as I could grasp from it. Look at any and every post you've written and you'll see what I mean.. "tat aburd" <-- what the fuck is that?

me))))))'disgusting' now. oh dear. next you'll be having me taken awaaay. is it a 'disORDER' yet?! is it errr drugable offence against mental hygene.
whaddyyasay?

The problem lies right there.

me))righr....em where?

Firstly: I would ask that you justify your claim that there is more stress in the modern world.

me)))))power freaks like you.

Secondly: People have always and will always have stress. It comes with life.

me))))))oh yer talkin ottayer arse. just coming out wit meaningless declarations

Thirdly: The "approach" is generally different for everyone. Some drink themselves stupid, some.. like you.. eat magic mushrooms, some become religious, and some, (or I would be out of a job), go to see shrinks. While the former examples are the faster way to "forgetting" your problems, they are not a solution.

me))pity the ones who visitsuch peopl like yourself for 'help'. i find your manner mot unfriendly an un-openminded.

If you are trying to get me to advocate eating 'shrooms before getting professional help you might aswell pull up a chair, 'cause you're gonna be here a long time.

me))))))yes in your wrld everyone needs 'professional help' dont they?
are you famiiliar wit te horrendous history of the psychiatric establishment pr chance...???!

Perhaps, but better a rigid brain than one that rattles about in the skull - and slips out the ear when you're not looking.

oh THAT old cliche...........

 

[c7ityi_]

i wonder...
who will win. who is the best.
duendy or snakelord.

 

[ellion]

SORRY ABOUT CAPLOCK c7
I THINK DUENDY WILL WIN DUENDY IS STUBBORN AS WORN OUT OLD BULL AND SNAKE LORD IS FILLED WITH HIS OWN SELF WORTH, SNAKE WILL GET BORED OF RELENTLESSLY ABUSING DEUNDY WHO WILL TAKE IT FORM ALL ANGLES WITHOUT FLINCHING.

 

[SnakeLord]

do you not keep harpin on about how much longer we live now?

I mentioned it once in response to another users post, so no.. I don't keep "harpin on about it". I wouldn't really have to say all this if you learnt to pay attention. However, as we're on the subject, and as a non-materialist, please.. do tell me how eating magic mushrooms is better than living longer.

me))))))whata wit this ' naked people running round eating mushrooms'-??

You'd know the answer to that if you had have paid any attention to this thread. I asked a question, you couldn't be bothered answering and so someone else did. Your post was summed up as saying that we should all be running around naked eating mushrooms. If that is wrong then A) It's not only me that can't understand you, and B) You should mention it to both me and the person that answered for you, and C) when you have something to say make sure you do it in a way that can be understood.

so what is this constant descriptor about....? hey?

Wakey, wakey my little naive Duendy girl.

go away. why keep coming back....?

Because you're a spastic I should ignore you? It's not like that in my profession. We point out people's problems, we don't just ignore them.

me)))likei said. itis NOT that i am 'lazy' it is combination of me playing wit type/text and a crap keyboard, and limited time when online. so theres pressure. tis is alst time i will tell you.

Don't make me go searching through your posts just to paste where you said you couldn't be bothered trying to type properly.

When you say "crap keyboard", I'm not exactly sure what you mean.. Is it missing keys or what?

me))))))'disgusting' now. oh dear. next you'll be having me taken awaaay.

Oh please, stop being so melodramatic. Your typing skills are dire. That's not to say you'll be "taken away", but that your typing skills are dire. I take it your reading skills ain't too good either.

me))righr....em where?

"righr" there.

me)))))power freaks like you.

That's hardly a justification. Try again.

me))))))oh yer talkin ottayer arse. just coming out wit meaningless declarations

So you disagree with my statement? Please.. explain.

me))pity the ones who visitsuch peopl like yourself for 'help'. i find your manner mot unfriendly an un-openminded.

This is not my office Duendy and you, luckily, are not my patient. This is a place where I can forget work and just discuss issues as and when I want to. Got it?

me))))))yes in your wrld everyone needs 'professional help' dont they?

Not at all. While I will say everyone at times in their life could use a "chat", I do see a big difference between the two. As an example I would mention a woman that is under some stress because her doctors believe her pregnancy to be ectopic. Her talking to me does not mean she needs "professional help", but that she needs to get her feelings out in the open. It can help a great deal - and is by and large more beneficial than taking a large dose of hallucinogen.

are you famiiliar wit te horrendous history of the psychiatric establishment pr chance...???!

While we're on the subject let me just mention medical history. Only a little while ago, (In the grand scheme of time), if you had a headache, doctors would chop your scalp off believing it was demons. Yes.. medical history is horrendous.. Are you really advocating that medical history is horrendous now because it once was?

While this is a relevant analogy, I hope it makes the point.

 

[duendy]

I mentioned it once in response to another users post, so no.. I don't keep "harpin on about it". I wouldn't really have to say all this if you learnt to pay attention. However, as we're on the subject, and as a non-materialist, please.. do tell me how eating magic mushrooms is better than living longer.

me)))))have YOU ever eat magic mushrooms?
WHY do you imagine i am ONLY referring to magic mushrooms when i say 'sacraments'?
i asked you previously a simple question: do you blieve consciousness is a product of the brain?if not what?

You'd know the answer to that if you had have paid any attention to this thread. I asked a question, you couldn't be bothered answering and so someone else did. Your post was summed up as saying that we should all be running around naked eating mushrooms. If that is wrong then A) It's not only me that can't understand you, and B) You should mention it to both me and the person that answered for you, and C) when you have something to say make sure you do it in a way that can be understood.

m)))oh dear oh deary me. what IS wrong with your attitude dude. you HELP pople hey.....? oh i see.
As far as i recall i haven't implied one 'runs round naked' after eating shrooms or any sacrament. that is YOUR interpretation--'sum up' as you call it.....tho i am sure people do, and it is very pleasureable. hafve YOU had the pleasure?

Wakey, wakey my little naive Duendy girl.

Because you're a spastic I should ignore you? It's not like that in my profession. We point out people's problems, we don't just ignore them.

me))do you call your 'patients'/'clients?' 'spastics?...just curious? and do you not feel it is an ofense to actual peple, derogatorally referred to as 'spastics' to use it as a put-down term....?

Don't make me go searching through your posts just to paste where you said you couldn't be bothered trying to type properly.

me)))))ohhhhh, i'd LOVE to!

When you say "crap keyboard", I'm not exactly sure what you mean.. Is it missing keys or what?

me)))yawn

Oh please, stop being so melodramatic. Your typing skills are dire. That's not to say you'll be "taken away", but that your typing skills are dire. I take it your reading skills ain't too good either.

me))yawn


"righr" there.

That's hardly a justification. Try again.

me))no

So you disagree with my statement? Please.. explain.

me))no. dont like your abusive manner one bit.

This is not my office Duendy and you, luckily, are not my patient. This is a place where I can forget work and just discuss issues as and when I want to. Got it?

me)))))got it.


Not at all. While I will say everyone at times in their life could use a "chat", I do see a big difference between the two. As an example I would mention a woman that is under some stress because her doctors believe her pregnancy to be ectopic. Her talking to me does not mean she needs "professional help", but that she needs to get her feelings out in the open. It can help a great deal - and is by and large more beneficial than taking a large dose of hallucinogen.

me)))))where have i suggested 'large doses of 'hallucinogens'? and for women with ectopic pregnancies...??

While we're on the subject let me just mention medical history. Only a little while ago, (In the grand scheme of time), if you had a headache, doctors would chop your scalp off believing it was demons. Yes.. medical history is horrendous.. Are you really advocating that medical history is horrendous now because it once was?

me))))psychiatry isn't medical science. though it pretends and acts like it has medical science! its history is HORREDNOUS, and it continues as such. for proof read The Manufature of Madness: Comparative Study of the Inquistion and the Mental Health Movement, by Thomas Szasz....!!!

While this is a relevant analogy, I hope it makes the point.

see MY point!

 

[ellion]

a psychiatrist is more likely to to commit suicide than any other profession. did you know?

 

[SnakeLord]

me)))))have YOU ever eat magic mushrooms?

No.

WHY do you imagine i am ONLY referring to magic mushrooms when i say 'sacraments'?

I didn't imagine anything, I'm narrowing it down for the sake of discussion.

i asked you previously a simple question: do you blieve consciousness is a product of the brain?if not what?

I asked you a simple question a page ago. I'm still waiting for an answer.

As far as i recall i haven't implied one 'runs round naked' after eating shrooms or any sacrament. that is YOUR interpretation

No it isn't. Pay attention Duendy. Once more for the sake of it: I asked you a question but you never answered it. Instead, Crunchy Cat told me: " shes saying humans are meant to be running around naked.." and "She is also suggesting hallucinagenic drugs".

I then responded to this guy, that people are now living longer - because he claims it is "unhealthy" for us in our modern environment.

You then came along and started busting my balls all because you couldn't be bothered answering my question. If you finally get round to doing that I will ammend my posts to suit.

me))do you call your 'patients'/'clients?' 'spastics?...just curious?

So.. whatever I do on a forum, or at a football match, or at a nightclub I also have to do at work?

me)))))where have i suggested 'large doses of 'hallucinogens'? and for women with ectopic pregnancies...??

Uhh.. you didn't, I did. You asked me if I believed everyone needed professional help. I was answering your question. Pay attention.

its history is HORREDNOUS, and it continues as such.

Kindly justify the latter part of that sentence. Thanks.

for proof read The Manufature of Madness: Comparative Study of the Inquistion and the Mental Health Movement, by Thomas Szasz....

I would hardly call the man's opinion "proof". His 'opinions' were rejected by the American Psychiatric Association (APA), the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI), the President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health, the National Alliance for Research on Schizophrenia and Depression (NARSAD), the National Mental Health Association (NMHA), and the Treatment Advocacy Center (TAC).

 

[duendy]

hah...yeh of course, causethey all grovelling in same trough. now look mr. i am not wasting any mo time with arrogant you. you are just wasting space with yur sorry attitude, which has no intention to explore with me. so .....unless you have anythng to actually contribute worthwhile in tis thread, i am gonna now ignore you

 

[duendy]

So, i have made up a term, 'the 'PATRIX'----see above post where I talk about this. To reiterate,, i was going to use term 'matrix' but suddenly thought of... 'patrix'!
Reason i dont want to use matrix for what i'm about to explore is that, the PAtriarchal perspective views Nature as a trap, a seductive--always female--temptress, enticing 'male heroic spirit' away from his goal--the 'pure spirit'.
So, for example, we have the
Eastern terms/interpretations, 'MAya' and 'MAra' to mean 'illusion' and delusion'---ie., Nature-entanglement'engulfment' of th 'male mind'.
'MAtrix has definition, 'female womb'. so i have rather decided to use theterm 'PAtrix' to describe the patriarchal cage, patriarchal MINDSET, which oppresses, not just us, but all other species, and Nature itself. THAT is what i want to now explore:

where do we begin?
a really fascinating book called 'Shamanism: TheFoundations of Magic', by Ward Rutherford, argues that the male heroic fear of the female begins, or is prominent in male-heavy shamanism....!
The may surpise many people, because it's assumed that shamanism is our oldest spiritual primal beginnings. but not so. for shamanism came from Goddess stream.

According to Rutherford, male shamanism typically sawthe more open Goddess vegetative religious rituals where everyone becomes partakes of the sacrament, and become'possessed', as a threat to his authority, and that his great enimies were female goddesses, usually 'underground' and at the bottom of the sea, etc.
Rutherford also stresses that shamanic revivals have always been with the well-off people, the middle classes, whilst Goddess orietned orgiastic rituals , with people of the land, women, slaves, dark-skinned people, homosexuals, bisexuals, transexuals, and so on.

Let me explore difference between 'orgia' and shamanic ritual. In the former, ALL participants would eat a sacrament and have communal group ecstatic expression,in a celebratory way. whilstin shamanic culture it is usually the shaman who performs the role as contacter of 'spirit world' or being 'possessed' etc
This not to say that in the Goddess steam there wouldn't have been shamans, usually women. i am meaning when a RIVALRY happens between MALE-oriented shamanism and Goddess vegeatative religion. then happens a rift.
For when male authroritarianism happens in the role of the shaman 'middle-man' who claims only he can contact an 'invisible world', surely that is when this disenfranchises people from their OWN ecstatic direct participatory freedoms, and this maybe the blue-print for patriarchal religions where we ALSO have middlemen between us and actual sacramental experiential experience

more. mucx more to xplore about this PATRIX....later...

feel free to join in an get yer feet wet

so coninuing then.........what do i define as the PAtrix? How does one dtect, see, feel it. For I sense it is all around. An adequate analogy is it is like the water fis swim in. DO fish notice the actual water. Maybe they do, i don know, and noone knows how a fish feels. And i am in no way implying anything inister about te waer fish swim in, except what the patrix does to thewater in name of progess!

Th patrix formed from a long long history of indoctrination. And by long I am meaning thousands of years!

As mentioned bove, its presence can be very well evidenced in the Genesis myth of the banning of the Fruit in the Garden of Eden, and the expulsion of humanity from 'Paradise'.
It is easier to SEE this patrix when we realize that the 'original sin' MEANS the eating of the sacraments, forbidden by 'God'--head office of Patrix inc.
Of course woman is blamed, for the Old Religion was from the Goddess Stream. So in effect this upstart 'God'/male elite is simply demonizing that very ancient Religion of the Earth.

 

[SnakeLord]

hah...yeh of course, causethey all grovelling in same trough.

Apologies, but what is this in reference to?

now look mr. i am not wasting any mo time with arrogant you. you are just wasting space with yur sorry attitude, which has no intention to explore with me.

I am trying to "explore with you", and indeed am waiting on an answer to my question 1 page ago. I think what you mean to say is that you're not going to talk to me because I disagree with you. Be a grown up for a change and be honest.

unless you have anythng to actually contribute worthwhile in tis thread, i am gonna now ignore you

But I have. I was told that the modern world is unhealthy, to which I provided refutation by stating that we now live longer. You told me to read a certain author to which I provided refutation by stating that pretty much every psychiatric organisation in America disagrees with this individuals opinion - which you ignored. Anything else I need do?

 

[duendy]

Apologies, but what is this in reference to?

me)))))what do you think?? ie., they all have invested interest to keep their scam afoot, no? i am more against bio-psychiatry of course. Szasz is a worthy revealer of the sham that is so-called psychiatric science. te fact you struttingly name all of the pompous sounding abreviated titles does not impress.

I am trying to "explore with you", and indeed am waiting on an answer to my question 1 page ago. I think what you mean to say is that you're not going to talk to me because I disagree with you. Be a grown up for a change and be honest.

me(((((oh seeet jeesu, your askin ME togrow up??! you who cal others 'spastic'. shit the bullyin kids use to use that term
when i was at PRIMARY school--for Americns etc that is pre--12 year old school.
if you wann explore with me , learn some respect! and stop going on about page 1. bring what yo have to say here, in real time

But I have. I was told that the modern world is unhealthy, to which I provided refutation by stating that we now live longer. You told me to read a certain author to which I provided refutation by stating that pretty much every psychiatric organisation in America disagrees with this individuals opinion - which you ignored. Anything else I need do?

yes read him again without your invested prejudice. and understand that tis 'living longer' 'progress' may not mean lives filled wit quality, and dignity, AND is more than likely adding to the problems on our small planet wit more old mouths to feed, ---more limited resources used up. all cause of patriarchal man's fear of death. you lot always go on about how peole live longer. but---as said...AND when yo look closer it is only WESTER mainly middle class etc pople tis works for. the rest die early just the same. tough frm exploitation, starvations, poverty, etc.

 

[SnakeLord]

me)))))what do you think?? ie., they all have invested interest to keep their scam afoot, no?

Right.. so one man's opinion is clearly the absolute truth while the refutations from all the major organisations in a country are merely scam artists lying to preserve the profit?

Way to go Duendy.

Szasz is a worthy revealer of the sham that is so-called psychiatric science.

But no, he isn't. Please justify how a scientology co-founders opinion, (born back in the 1920), is somehow more truthful and of more worth than every single large psychiatric organisation in the whole of America. Tell me Duendy please, how is Szasz a "worthy revealer"? Please, justify your statement.

te fact you struttingly name all of the pompous sounding abreviated titles does not impress.

It wasn't to "impress", but to utterly refute your baseless claims. That was successful.

bring what yo have to say here, in real time

So I have to repeat myself because of your inability to answer questions? Please..

tis 'living longer' 'progress' may not mean lives filled wit quality, and dignity

But we all know that. Life is not perfect Duendy.. and sometimes we suffer. Is that all you wanted to say?

AND is more than likely adding to the problems on our small planet wit more old mouths to feed

"Small" is one of those weird words that doesn't always mean much. This "small" planet still happily fits 6 billion people and is 2/3rds unpopulated. But what do you suggest Duendy? That we try to lower the average lifespan and smoke dope?

all cause of patriarchal man's fear of death

Please tell me why people shouldn't want to live longer.

you lot always go on about how peole live longer

"you lot"? Who are you referring to? I just provided you with a fact, it's not my fault it's a fact.

AND when yo look closer it is only WESTER mainly middle class etc pople tis works for. the rest die early just the same.

Sure, it's an average. Didn't I point that out to you several posts back?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Oops, sorry never saw the post until now

Well, let's just check statistics. To my knowledge the average life expectancy has increased an extreme amount if we were to compare modern day to the times when we were, perhaps, running around naked as hunters. Indeed our life expectancy is greater now than it was a mere 100 years ago.

This is true, our life expectancy has grown considerably. It is also true that modern life puts more focus on the individual. Families are no longer doing the laundry together, hunting with each other outside and getting vitamin D from the sun, exercising, etc. The things people are not engaged in by default isn't promoting mental well being and if we want to talk pure statistics then one only need look at suicide rates as a piece of supporting data.

Admittedly we have scientific/medical advances to thank for a lot of that, but those advances were not made by eating magical 'shrooms. Indeed every person I know or have met that is into their 'shrooms and smoke are actually pretty much brain dead. They can barely tie their own shoelaces let alone improve medical science and the quality of life. Not to mention that the one person that comes on this forum telling everyone to dabble with 'shrooms is the one person that cannot type a three letter word without fucking it up.

It's no coincidence.

This is true. Advances in science and medicine have done a great deal of good for mankind. In the last 150 years people are in a radically different environment campared to all previous history and adapting to such a large change isn't easy for alot of people (whether they realize it or not).

I agree that recreational drugs are very damaging and that no advances have come from their use.

 

[duendy]

Right.. so one man's opinion is clearly the absolute truth while the refutations from all the major organisations in a country are merely scam artists lying to preserve the profit?

me))actually it is not just one man who is has/is exposing the mental health movement. HAve you heard of Fred Baughman?
Actually, there have been several oter threads at these forums wherr i have gone to much effort to challenge your such beliefs as your regarding bio psychiatry---errr, where were you? do you just hang out in religious forum?
Not sure if i want tis thread about samaneral experience taken over with this complex topic which i have always found can go on and on, andpople get very upset. for te whole idea of 'mental illness' is central to the mainanence of the present patriarchal ideology!
so let me put you straight. i believe mental illness is a myth. yes the scam is an evil unprecendented profit and prestige motivated. Even dragging in millions of children into itsoppressive web---this is Baugman's speciality.
Testimony of Dr Fred Baughman www.house.gov/ed_workforce/hearings/106th/oi/ritalin92900/baughman.htm

Way to go Duendy.

But no, he isn't. Please justify how a scientology co-founders opinion, (born back in the 1920), is somehow more truthful and of more worth than every single large psychiatric organisation in the whole of America. Tell me Duendy please, how is Szasz a "worthy revealer"? Please, justify your statement.

me))))))go read him and abosrb! what am i, our tutor already?
And our reference to him being co-founder of scientology is complete nonesense. if you care to search tat term --cult's namenwith him, you should get a spokesperson for him at his site refute his being a scientologist.

It wasn't to "impress", but to utterly refute your baseless claims. That was successful.

me)))but you haven't....? and they most certainly are not baseless.

So I have to repeat myself because of your inability to answer questions? Please..

me))do wehat you want. but this is eting on my nerves. also ypur tedious style of psychoanalysing ever godamn sentence whilst at same time not saying much.

But we all know that. Life is not perfect Duendy.. and sometimes we suffer. Is that all you wanted to say?

me)))what? you think i dont know this?

"Small" is one of those weird words that doesn't always mean much. This "small" planet still happily fits 6 billion people and is 2/3rds unpopulated. But what do you suggest Duendy? That we try to lower the average lifespan and smoke dope?

me)))))i am not anti medical science as such. but its model is based on a mechanical understanding of the organism and health. when its way has become all that is available it is oppressive and without feeling.
YES thisplanet IS small and has LIMITED resources. tousands of PTHER species are suffering due t our numbers and a mechanical mindset which is dominant on this planet.

Please tell me why people shouldn't want to live longer.

me))iam not saying people shouldn't live longer. you are so simplistic. these are complex questions you ask in a very naive way. pople generally feel that they HAVE to live longer. many very old people are kept tickin on yes their lives are dire. tis is a cultural pressure to cling on no matter what.

"you lot"? Who are you referring to? I just provided you with a fact, it's not my fault it's a fact.

me))you lot means materialisitc positivists. one's whose religion seems to
be science

Sure, it's an average. Didn't I point that out to you several posts back?

I am just stating the actual. tat fo all your deification of science and its brave new world of longer and longer life. for many peole on rthis planet including the Western world have to live miserable lives and die young

 

[QueenTiye]

Hmm... well, I don't really support the idea of 'sacramental' religious experience - because I believe we are (most of us) capable of having mystical experience without the use of medicinals.

That said - I do believe we may come around to the point where we discover that some people genuinely DO need the medicinals to have a mystical experience - and for them, it will be prescribed, as are any other medicinals. I believe we'll come around to recognizing that mystical experiences are healthy and beneficial to the individual and to society as a whole, and so see the inability to have them as a disability needing cure.

That idea was put forth by some who deem themselves pioneers in the field of neurotheology... and it is something I'm interested in studying more. On my own forum, we started a topic on it, but we haven't gotten as far as I would like... here is the discussion if it interests anyone: http://www.forumsvibe.com/thequeensrealm/viewtopic.php?t=8&mforum=thequeensrealm

QT

 

[duendy]

Hmm... well, I don't really support the idea of 'sacramental' religious experience - because I believe we are (most of us) capable of having mystical experience without the use of medicinals.

me)))welll, HIand Welcome.
Nope. dont agree with you at all. Most of us aren't. and i question mysticism. i am not really talking about mysticism atall. if we care to explore the history of mysticism we see it too is divisive, psychologically dividing'spirit' from Nature--please, the first link!
When we have the idea tha some people can have 'mystical' xperiences natrually, we are the ideology of gurus and holy men and mytics. all spinners. trying to pretend 'pureness' or 'pureR-ness'. it is false.

That said - I do believe we may come around to the point where we discover that some people genuinely DO need the medicinals to have a mystical experience - and for them, it will be prescribed, as are any other medicinals. I believe we'll come around to recognizing that mystical experiences are healthy and beneficial to the individual and to society as a whole, and so see the inability to have them as a disability needing cure.

me))))ohg dear gawwwd/ that idea is truly awful! it is like some materialisti bio-psychiatry trip on ACID...ugggggh!

That idea was put forth by some who deem themselves pioneers in the field of neurotheology... and it is something I'm interested in studying more. On my own forum, we started a topic on it, but we haven't gotten as far as I would like... here is the discussion if it interests anyone: http://www.forumsvibe.com/thequeensrealm/viewtopic.php?t=8&mforum=thequeensrealm

QT

all i can see is one post...? but i really do not like that idea one bit. it is fascist-mysticism! i am sure we will explore why as we continue

 

[QueenTiye]

The one post contains a link which had a bunch of posts from a prior iteration of the board.

Fascist-mysticism? Explain the term?

QT