*(*Sacramental Religious Experience*)*

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duendy

Registered Senior Member
For a while now i've been on tese boards and have variously tried to speak about sacramental religios experience.
For many they have tirned a blind eye deaf ear to what i hae tried to communicate..........
i am not surprised. I remember myself before i had suc experience. let me explain--by 'sacramental', i mean psychedelics experience

when i was a young teenager, in one of the senstational Sunday newspapers, they were reviewing the extreme;ly controversial book by JM.Allegro, titled The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. At the time it kinda went over my head. I had no idea what psychedelic experiene was like, so---i really was just titlated by the booksreferences to 'glans penises/ie., mushroom caps metaphors' etc etc, like I am sure many of te oter readers were....!

So i can very well understand even adults who hafeneve had psychedelic/sacramental experience to not...'get it'. bit like trying to explain to a child hat fallin in love is like. i am not being patronizing, i promise. just first thing came to me

But even so, i feel it is extraordinarily important to explore about this for te very reason, i have gleaned, that mythology itself has grown from our species' sacramental experience!

so this thread maaaay be very long. even if nt many pf you find interest in it. i,if not crucified--hehe-touchwood--will explore it anyway, and i hope to attract interst to, even from those just curious

This is a vast subject which is of course interdisciplinary. i hate specialization anyhow
 
One of the main barriers to our understanding of mythology is LITERALISM. This is the accepted belief that mythoogy should be understood superficially--its surface literarary narrative, But this is not so. Mythology is created in layers.

Actually in prepatriarchal times there was 'magical script/ which was mainly of symbols communicating the interelatedness of polar reality. The images were to communicate a deeper understanding of reality . Think of it as visual poetry. For example a serpent would be associated with various things, like how it sloughsoff its skin and is continually renewing itself---what might this represent?---How it moves. where it lives, how it arises from the ground, like a phallic-mushroom, its poisonous bite, which also in some species, the venom has psychedelic properties. All tewse assocations and more form preliterate mythology. NOw, add wings to te serpent and this communicates something else. and so on. I will give example of the meaning of tese images later on. Bt tis is just to explore te beginnings of te idea of layers of maning in mythology, in this case benevolent

When the patriarchy begins making abstract symbols, is when we get literacy. and in mythology LITERALISM. They too will appropriate these primal images from a much older stream, and using written language try and subvert their meaning, in different layers!

Agreat exaple of tis patriarchal deviceis in their --again-- approriated myth of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. For the IMAGESwere taken from much oler myths whic were prepatriarchal----images such as the Garden, the Tree, Serpent, Flowing Streams, the man/god the woman/Goddess
the Fruit

in the previous understandings of tese images they were benevolent, but te patriarchy subverts their meaning, deliberately making them negative!

Briefly, in theoriginary symbolism, te Fruit is the sacrament, which is guarded by the Serpent of te Tree, and in Garden is Goddess and her son/lover. The Fruit ifs freely offered to all who respectfully seek it, so as to exprience ecstatic exprience and be reborn afresh in the Grden of Immortality

But what the writers of Genesis do is demonize the Serpent, the woman/Goddess, ad cursemankind for being seduced to eat te sacrament. it is in other words PROPAGANDA writ on several layers of meaning, but te superofical story is understood by all reeaders to mean the PREVIOUS archaic mythology is evil, and the new patriarchy is now BOSS!
 
you simply MUST--ifyou can find the time in your busy busy worlds you have accepted and tryand fit your children into ad nauseum --reead this:
From Orphism to Gnosticism
www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/ukraine/231/dionysian/orphism.html

why?

why, because it will reveal to you a M A J R O psychological Transition which goes from a celebratory understanding of sacramental experience to a dualistic one. where Nature becomes divided from 'heaven' and the 'spirit
..In ancient Greece, the last vestiges of the Goddess Religion of the Earth, Dionysianism, which had open celebratory ek-stasis, was reformed by the dire philosophic mindset of a group calling them selves Orphics, after their 'hero', Orpheus.
anyway try and explore wat is said there

in the last 500 years a mindset which began in England via the so-called Enlightenment has modified this divisive mindset to a fine tuned dead mechanical bent.
They have actually seen to it to enclose te common land, te seas, te airspace, the electromagnetic specturm, and bioology itself--into commodified chunks which are ten property of the few to make 'profit' out of.
But LISTE also cnsciouuness is included in teir greedy evil dealings

Think of what they have done/are doing to the wilds---wild Nature. they are cutting it up, paving it over, poisoning it, monoculturing it. stamping on anything in its bulldozing path. plants, trees, springs, ecosystems, wild animals, ........

well, rthey have dont/are doing same to our consciousness. our wild free freedom of consciosness. they rather want just your PRODUCTIVE side so as to carry on their profit-making schemes. Kidding us that this is 'progress'. is that so. i am seeing poisoning, and misery.
 
so as i am seeing it, something distrous has happened and is continuuing to happen. the bones of it is tat may of us have lost contact with the land. many of us have to live in concrete hovels, and/or are sooo rushin around franiically tryin to survive there is no s p a c e anymore. not only to look out up the amazing skies, trannsfoming all the time, at trees, flowers, animals, colours, and so on, but to even communicate with others in meaningful ways. ...its rather people rushin round wit a moblie stuck to teir ear, and driving nd work work work. for what??????
where's it all lading? anyone take time to think? are you happy now. with what is happening in the world? can you sense distress and need to escape?

sacramental exprience is the deeply entering into te pimal nownes. it isn't the nowness of rantic rushround culture, but te dynamic process of Nature. that which SUSTAINS ---the SOURCE
 
So.. if I understand your posts correctly..

You're saying life sucks nowadays so we all should all smoke pot?
 
No, shes saying humans are meant to be running around naked, hunting, and gathering and it's unhealthy for us to live in the environments we have made for ourselves... and this might be true.

She is also suggesting hallucinagenic drugs to help us with this 'health' issue.
 
Just because something is meaningful in a certain state of mind, and not in others doesn't mean that it wasn't a real breakthrough. What Duendy is talking about is the way religion was practiced for tens of thousands of years...
 
spidergoat said:
Just because something is meaningful in a certain state of mind, and not in others doesn't mean that it wasn't a real breakthrough. What Duendy is talking about is the way religion was practiced for tens of thousands of years...
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unless you both have, or ether of you, have already, can i encourage you to read this---it's very interesting:

GLOBAL VISION: WHEN THE DREAM BECOMES REAL: CHAPTER 1 www.global-vision.org/dream/dreamch1.html
 
duendy said:
i really was just titlated by the booksreferences to 'glans penises/ie., mushroom caps metaphors' etc etc, like I am sure many of te oter readers were....!
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come on just cause you have fascination with penii doesnt mean everybody will.

that aside, i am planning an experiment with some morning glory seeds have you ever tried them?
 
Crunchy Cat said:
No, shes saying humans are meant to be running around naked, hunting, and gathering and it's unhealthy for us to live in the environments we have made for ourselves... and this might be true.

She is also suggesting hallucinagenic drugs to help us with this 'health' issue.
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The drugs aside, I heard that shoes can cause backpain because they weeken the feet. Working in the medical field I should probably research this but as it fit well with this post.... I suppose shoes are one of those things that stop us from runing around naked and subsequently fuck our backs up.

So my kind of religious question is..... anyone know of a good pair of shoes?

Cheers,
Michael

PS: Thats a real question :m:

PPS: Yes a few beers :)
 
No, shes saying humans are meant to be running around naked, hunting, and gathering and it's unhealthy for us to live in the environments we have made for ourselves... and this might be true.
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Well, let's just check statistics. To my knowledge the average life expectancy has increased an extreme amount if we were to compare modern day to the times when we were, perhaps, running around naked as hunters. Indeed our life expectancy is greater now than it was a mere 100 years ago.

Admittedly we have scientific/medical advances to thank for a lot of that, but those advances were not made by eating magical 'shrooms. Indeed every person I know or have met that is into their 'shrooms and smoke are actually pretty much brain dead. They can barely tie their own shoelaces let alone improve medical science and the quality of life. Not to mention that the one person that comes on this forum telling everyone to dabble with 'shrooms is the one person that cannot type a three letter word without fucking it up.

It's no coincidence.
 
ellion said:
come on just cause you have fascination with penii doesnt mean everybody will.

me))))hahaha....

that aside, i am planning an experiment with some morning glory seeds have you ever tried them?
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me))))no. be carful. once i read that the ones you puchchase from regular shops have been contaminated with a poison....? because they knew people were experimenting with them. are they organic. if any doubts contact www.erowid.com ---really realy great people there. blew me away. i emailed them and said i ha limited system and couldn't access their 'what's new', and i got such friendly reponse and they actually changed page...!
 
SnakeLord said:
Well, let's just check statistics. To my knowledge the average life expectancy has increased an extreme amount if we were to compare modern day to the times when we were, perhaps, running around naked as hunters. Indeed our life expectancy is greater now than it was a mere 100 years ago.

me))))))ohgoawwwwd---the 'we are livingloonger now' diatribe. yes true, but many pople aredead from te ground UP wirtth stress, worry, bordedom, alienation.
look...did you even READ that link? are you in my thread to learn or fukin do what yu usually do? did you read thelink. give crit what ever...just contribute somethingworthwhile, yeah?

Admittedly we have scientific/medical advances to thank for a lot of that, but those advances were not made by eating magical 'shrooms. Indeed every person I know or have met that is into their 'shrooms and smoke are actually pretty much brain dead. They can barely tie their own shoelaces let alone improve medical science and the quality of life. Not to mention that the one person that comes on this forum telling everyone to dabble with 'shrooms is the one person that cannot type a three letter word without fucking it up.
me))i dont believe your nasty propganda. i also know people who have had psychedelic experience, etc and they dont fit our vile cynical desriptor. so UNTI i were tomeet these unknown--possibly nonexistent--people you slander, we will believe it t be the latter.
YES, it IS true people can abuse psychedelics. THA is why i am bringing about this inot debate and spurcing people to LOST history as is revealed in the link i offered. so quit it with your war on drugs propaganda. i can see right thru it.
....Ad a bit mo about your congratualting your 'heroic' mindset's keepin people livin....and livin, and livin. ever seen some of these poor old people stuck in gruesom 'old peoples homes' lately. jeeezus. you dont thinkthey'd like to be able to slip off with dignity. the whole impetus for long life via 'medical science' is the fear of death. our anceint ancestors--prepatriarchal ancestors had not the same fear as when patriarchy took over, and with 'us' moderns!

It's no coincidence.
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try and getover your dry cynical self in my sanctuary.......here,try some of this
 
duendy how can you be so intelligent?
areyou

- courage

i know why. because you want to.

edit: i'll go out in nature to eat a mushroom.
 
Hmmm, the response about writing down the word "enlightenment" is missing, C7ityi must have deleted it.

It reminded me of something by Alan Watts, where he mentioned "the smell of burnt almonds", and how even such a statement can be an expression of a transcendent thought, even though it doesn't make much sense literally. I couldn't find the transcript of it on the internet, but I have an mp3.
 
spidergoat said:
Hmmm, the response about writing down the word "enlightenment" is missing, C7ityi must have deleted it.

It reminded me of something by Alan Watts, where he mentioned "the smell of burnt almonds", and how even such a statement can be an expression of a transcendent thought, even though it doesn't make much sense literally. I couldn't find the transcript of it on the internet, but I have an mp3.
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If anyone wants to explore Alan Watts take on sacramental experience, a JEWEL of a book of his about this is called 'The Joyous Cosmology: Adventures in the Chemistry of Consciousness
the book also has wonderful illustrations of natural objects and their patterned markings
 
duendy said:
me))))no. be carful. once i read that the ones you puchchase from regular shops have been contaminated with a poison....? because they knew people were experimenting with them. are they organic. if any doubts contact www.erowid.com ---really realy great people there. blew me away. i emailed them and said i ha limited system and couldn't access their 'what's new', and i got such friendly reponse and they actually changed page...!
Click to expand...
yeah theyre organic, nice site!!
 
i recommend pople interested in tis thread's subject checkout the link above 'Global Vision'.......itis a primer in te real meaning of mythology
As explored mentioned, previously, originally myth was preliteral, and more IMAGE than literal. Observation of Nature and feeling was its source.

Of course, sacramental experience deepens observational capacity extraordanarily. And as sense of the interconnectedness of reality cn be deeply experienced. Interconnectedness ion observation can include all forms of dimension, and this sense would be commincated in 'magical script'--a language of the Goddess preexisting Sumerian cuneiform type of symbolic communications.

From my own experience, it can be quite tedious to read literal works when having taken sacraments. you CAN,and it can be intense, but you are MUC more intereted in observing organic forms, events, colourse, and what i would describe as---interdimensional action. by tis i mean seeing THROUGH social facades/masks.
Also polar related insight and synchronicity also feature

in modern lingo one could say one is seeing through the 'matrix'--type of thing. I am aware of that film of same name, and there are several interpreations o it. The most convincing to date i've read is from a supposed ex-Illuminati person, who said it is very refelcting all about that.
Bit what i mean by ---and hehe, i will now cal it PAtrix--reason being i am sick of words beginning with MA--root word of 'mama/moter' being used in a denigrating manner--ie., in Eastern philosophy we have the denigrated concept of 'Maya' meaning illusion of creation, and in Zen 'MAra' meaning delusion-----digressing. one time i actually joined an online Zen forum, to see where tey were t. i mentioned sacramenta, and was told by a Zennist they were forbidden--and/or notpromoted. i asked why ands he said , because they can entangle one in mara. i looed the etymology of that term up, and one definition was 'Goddess of Evil'. when i brought this back to thezennist he said they translated it as 'delusion'!
what he meant was getting entangled with material reality in a deep way. THIS is the patriarchal fear of 'engulfment'
 
ohgoawwwwd---the 'we are livingloonger now' diatribe
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Ok, all the girly whining aside, do we or do we not live longer now?

yes true
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Thank you.

but many pople aredead from te ground UP wirtth stress, worry, bordedom, alienation.
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So these people, (which can well include everyone because we all have moments of boredom, worry and stress), should eat magic mushrooms?

look...did you even READ that link? are you in my thread to learn or fukin do what yu usually do?
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You might notice that my very first post here was a question. Of course you didn't answer it. Luckily someone else did.

I then refuted the idea on several grounds - to which you have come back with a bit of whining and "but people have stress" as some kind of justification for telling everyone to eat 'shrooms and run around naked.

give crit what ever...just contribute somethingworthwhile,
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I did. I pointed out some cold hard facts. You just don't like it.

try and getover your dry cynical self in my sanctuary
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Hey, it's that moment where we get to give each other advice heh? K, here's mine for you: When in "my sanctuary".. learn to fucking type.
 
SnakeLord said:
Ok, all the girly whining aside, do we or do we not live longer now?

me)))))this 'living longer' is what you materialists shout the loudest, as thpugh it is a great thing. that you havebeaten Nature. cause that's howi see the patriarchal trip. you want to 'put-right- Nature, eventually maybeeven trying to defeat death, and aging....riiight?
so, mr snakelord, what have we got in your brave new world, hey? well i see too many of us. that soon its gonna be overburdened with oldies. tat may old peple would pobably like to die. but can cause they are bullied to stay alive with 'help' of medical science. MEANWHILE Nature's resources become overburdened ith mo and more people keepin on tayin alive, gobbling up more food, fuel, mo space.
As i said, this all stems from lack of awareness of sustainability, of need for balance, for other spcies, future generations of our own, AND F E A R of death. For pre-scientific patriarhcals this mean fear of post-mortem---'hven or hell', ad not it's fear of ..nothing'?? meaninglessness. no enae of continuum with natrual world and community. hence te selfish grabbin of life. live longer. gotta live longer. must must. cause te doctor told me so. yeah??



Thank you.



So these people, (which can well include everyone because we all have moments of boredom, worry and stress), should eat magic mushrooms?

me)))how do you read snakelord. take offa your cynical specs and learn to read wit insight. your interpretation is gross and superficial and silly.
Bet any money you didn't real tat global-vision link. for if so you may have gleaned that many people really do have distress, and generally more and more people are on so-called psychiatric 'medication', living frantic meaningless lives saturated wit consumerism, being manipulated by oppressive powers. just cause you aren't aware of tis doesn't mean others aren't or dont feel it.
how can i communicae with you about tis with your attitude. you who dont even absorb whats been said already, or looks at links? how....?



You might notice that my very first post here was a question. Of course you didn't answer it. Luckily someone else did.

me)))you man tat aburd provocative---'why dont we all smoke dope all day?' or something like that? hardly worth me time mate.

I then refuted the idea on several grounds - to which you have come back with a bit of whining and "but people have stress" as some kind of justification for telling everyone to eat 'shrooms and run around naked.

me)))well, tellus then . why do YOU tink people hafve stress, and there is more an more of it in mdern world? and what would be your approach to this exstential problem?



I did. I pointed out some cold hard facts. You just don't like it.

me)))we have had enough of your mechancial mindsets' 'cold hard facts'. cold hard facts come from a cold hard rigid brain!



Hey, it's that moment where we get to give each other advice heh? K, here's mine for you: When in "my sanctuary".. learn to fucking type.
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wen i AM, if i DO, i will fink about it
 
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