Richard Dawkins Again Refuses Debate With Christian Apologist William Craig

Who is this guy Craig anyway? A nobody as far as I can see.

William Craig is a very prominent writer and intellectual in evangelical/fundamentalist Christian circles. I'm not sure if he's a philosopher or a theologian, exactly. (He teaches philosophy at a theological seminary.)

The seminary itself is kind of telling. Talbot School of Theology is the religious seminary of Biola University in suburban Los Angeles. The name 'Biola' was originally an acronym, which stood for 'Bible Institute of Los Angeles'. It was (and is) prominent in the evangelical/fundamentalist movement, originally offering Bible classes with an emphasis on training evangelists. It grew, put in university degree programs and eventually became accredited. But the emphasis on evangelism remained and today Biola is a leader in things like missions and apologetics.

That's where William Lane Craig comes in. This thread called him a "professional debater", and although that was disputed in some posts, it's accurate. He's an unabashed "apologist". (Even this thread's subject line calls him that.) He sees his mission as spreading God's Word and he's trained, and he trains others, to do that as effectively as possible. He's a rhetorician as much as he's a theologian or a philosopher.

In the fundamentalist world of apologetics, Craig's probably as famous as Dawkins is among atheists. (Of course, Dawkins was a leading evolutionary biologist before he got sidetracked, and Craig has nothing to compare to that.)

As far as religion goes, Craig really does have an excellent educational background. Dawkins doesn't seem to have any educational background in religion or philosophy at all. So I suspect that Craig probably could make Dawkins look foolish if the debate turned to theological technicalities or to religious history.

Of course Craig would be defending doctrinal positions whose epistemological justification is doubtful simply by their nature. So he would have to keep Dawkins on the defensive and not let Dawkins concentrate on challenging the basis of his own beliefs.

Why doesn't Dawkins debate Jan Ardena, that's what I want to know. Why is he avoiding Sciforums?

For that matter, why is Craig avoiding Sciforums?

I think that we could probably hold our own with him on a discussion board like this, where we would have time to think about what we want to say and to compose our answers.

We could pick his posts apart at leisure line by line, examining the logic, presuppositions and justification of each individual step. It would be far more difficult to snow us with a torrent of jargon concealing what might be any number of unjustified assumptions and non-sequiturs. We wouldn't be put into the position of having to produce a cogent response in seconds off the top of our heads.
 
Yazata,

I think that we could probably hold our own with him on a discussion board like this, where we would have time to think about what we want to say and to compose our answers.


That's hardly ''holding our own''.
In that case anything can be picked apart, for picking aparts sake.
It doesn't seem like you think you can, or want, to learn anything, or even come round to to his way of thinking, should his arguments be superior.

IOW, you appear to be fixed in worldview.

We could pick his posts apart at leisure line by line, examining the logic, presuppositions and justification of each individual step. It would be far more difficult to snow us with a torrent of jargon concealing what might be any number of unjustified assumptions and non-sequiturs. We wouldn't be put into the position of having to produce a cogent response in seconds off the top of our heads.

IOW, we wouldn't give him a foothold, much like we already operate.

jan.
 
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It doesn't like you think, or want to could learn anything, or even come round to to his way of thinking, should his arguments be superior.

IOW, you appear to be fixed in worldview.
:roflmao:
Pot, meet kettle.
 
IOW, we wouldn't give him a foothold

If giving someone a foothold is based on one's own inadequacy,
then this isn't a foothold that a decent person would accept.

If theists prey on the inadequacies of non-theists in order to make their point and win, then theism becomes nothing more than politics.
 
We could pick his posts apart at leisure line by line, examining the logic, presuppositions and justification of each individual step. It would be far more difficult to snow us with a torrent of jargon concealing what might be any number of unjustified assumptions and non-sequiturs. We wouldn't be put into the position of having to produce a cogent response in seconds off the top of our heads.

But the real deal is to be able to do that in real-time, face-to-face, on the spot!
 
You know why i think Dawkins wont debate him?

Dwakins knows the words I, Dont and Know he just cant put them together.
 
@Ellie --

You haven't read a word that man has written have you? I know that he says "I don't know" quite a lot in his books. When something is truly beyond our knowledge he admits it. However things like the origin of the universe and of life are no longer in this category. We don't know exactly what happened(and Dawkins, unlike Craig or any other christian, admits this several times in his books) but we know enough to take a rough stab at it, and none of our stabs even need a creator.

Dawkins doesn't debate him for the same reason that he never debated Ken Ham or Kent Hovind. He's a scientist, not a debater and any debate with a creationist/ID'er will be nothing more than a waste of his time. Hell, sitting around and doing nothing would be more productive for him, at least then he could think without that Grade A bullshit penetrating his brain.
 
I haven't seen him debate. I said to read his books, not to watch his debates. Seriously go and read his books, you might learn a little bit about how science works and what the theory of evolution actually says. I recommend you start with Unweaving the Rainbow.
 
I'll see if iTunes has the audio format.

As far as Evolution goes, people are always going to question evolution even if they are not religious. People see there are loose ends that really may never get tied up at least in our lifetimes.
 
But the real deal is to be able to do that in real-time, face-to-face, on the spot!
Sure - if your goal is to be a politician or a good debater. Also good for those who speak in sound bites.

Besides, sounds like the format for these "debates" would be each person has 20 minutes to give their "side" and then 10 minutes to refute the other "side". No real discussion allowed.
 
Sure - if your goal is to be a politician or a good debater. Also good for those who speak in sound bites.

Besides, sounds like the format for these "debates" would be each person has 20 minutes to give their "side" and then 10 minutes to refute the other "side". No real discussion allowed.

I am assuming the person meant unaided by google like we see on web forums. Dawkins is a smart guy, i am not saying he isnt, but just looks like he views this as not going well for him. Any hesitation or "i dont knows" will only work against him.
 
Sure - if your goal is to be a politician or a good debater.

Being good on the spot in discussion and debate is simply one of desirable cognitive skills.


Besides, sounds like the format for these "debates" would be each person has 20 minutes to give their "side" and then 10 minutes to refute the other "side". No real discussion allowed.

I agree, the format of those debates is a rather useless.
 
I am assuming the person meant unaided by google like we see on web forums. Dawkins is a smart guy, i am not saying he isnt, but just looks like he views this as not going well for him. Any hesitation or "i dont knows" will only work against him.
Or he's busy and doesn't have time (or desire) to fuck with every apologist that comes along. It's not like these "debates" ever solve anything or convince anyone.

If you really want to learn, forget the sound bites and read a book.
 
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