Why retired dogs? Aren't they retired, they should try to live out the rest of their lives in peace and free from work. When I was in junior high the drug dogs would come and sniff out the classroom once every other week, but they weren't retired though. I don't think it's a bad idea, it's sad if your relationship with your child has become that degraded, but if things have gotten that bad, I would want to know if I had illegal substances in my house.
Retired Drug Dogs
- Thread starter Orleander
- Start date
And they wouldn't be using the meth if they could get marijuana, because meth is expensive, they know it rots your teeth, they know that it makes you feel like shit in the morning, and they would really rather have marijuana. If you don't like meth legalize marijuana. The same goes for heroin versus marijuana because kids will take something, but most of them would rather use the stuff that feels safest. A person can get totally messed up on marijuana and still function the next day. Alcohol users can't.
The longer view ... or something
Only half?
The thing is that you're right in a certain sense: It does work to lie to kids. Just like it works to hit them. But in either case, the utility is only short-term. Soon enough the kid will be old enough to lie, and soon enough the kid will be old enough to hold his or her own in a fight. And what will we have taught them? That lying and violence are proper, even admirable, behavior. The long-term trade-off doesn't seem profitable.
We might consider the issue in general terms. When we are young, we are taught to share and cooperate and be honest. When we get old enough to hit the workforce, we are supposed to be selfish and dishonest. Now, nobody's ever going to say it outright. But we are told, "look out for number one", and, "you gotta sell yourself", all of which leads to a distorted perception of what parents mean when they talk about "responsibility". Think of words like "merit", and then think of the word "commission". "Merit pay" is a political buzzword right now. But if we think of commissions, how is it that used car salesmen have come to be held in such low esteem? Commissions are "merit pay" for sales work, and sales work demands a certain degree of dishonesty. Just think about the cycle for a moment. It might sound great to tell a teenager how to be "responsible", but what about the ideas of "selling" ourselves and taking care of the self first isn't reflected in, say, politicians? And yet people blame gays, or atheists, or one political party or the other, or rock and roll, or television, or ... whatever ... for the "decline of society". We might despise politicians and dishonest sales people, but they only reflect the values of our society as we practice them.
Lying to kids, just like beating them, only reinforces that these acts are appropriate and deserving of respect. Parenthood isn't supposed to be about convenience. (Maybe if people understood that, they'd breed less.)
Betrayer0fHope said:
Only half?
The thing is that you're right in a certain sense: It does work to lie to kids. Just like it works to hit them. But in either case, the utility is only short-term. Soon enough the kid will be old enough to lie, and soon enough the kid will be old enough to hold his or her own in a fight. And what will we have taught them? That lying and violence are proper, even admirable, behavior. The long-term trade-off doesn't seem profitable.
We might consider the issue in general terms. When we are young, we are taught to share and cooperate and be honest. When we get old enough to hit the workforce, we are supposed to be selfish and dishonest. Now, nobody's ever going to say it outright. But we are told, "look out for number one", and, "you gotta sell yourself", all of which leads to a distorted perception of what parents mean when they talk about "responsibility". Think of words like "merit", and then think of the word "commission". "Merit pay" is a political buzzword right now. But if we think of commissions, how is it that used car salesmen have come to be held in such low esteem? Commissions are "merit pay" for sales work, and sales work demands a certain degree of dishonesty. Just think about the cycle for a moment. It might sound great to tell a teenager how to be "responsible", but what about the ideas of "selling" ourselves and taking care of the self first isn't reflected in, say, politicians? And yet people blame gays, or atheists, or one political party or the other, or rock and roll, or television, or ... whatever ... for the "decline of society". We might despise politicians and dishonest sales people, but they only reflect the values of our society as we practice them.
Lying to kids, just like beating them, only reinforces that these acts are appropriate and deserving of respect. Parenthood isn't supposed to be about convenience. (Maybe if people understood that, they'd breed less.)
I don't think lying to kids teaches them that it's okay to lie, it just makes your parents less credible and not trustworthy. It would lessen the child's respect for their parent and less likely to take what their parents say seriously.
Nonsense.
Have you ever known any meth users?
Not only is weed at least as easy to get as meth (easier in most places) people start for very different reasons, and once they start the other issues you mentioned don't matter.
It is highly addictive and people fiend for it worse than crack.
Giving a meth-head weed for free will not make them stop meth. They'd just sell it to buy meth.
Not to mention the fact that it is a completely different high - they dont even compare.
Tiassa
personally i think you understate the danger of actions like this.
Lets look at a real world example, medical services are apsolutly confidential with one exception (soon to be two). Those two exceptions are child abuse and elder abuse but apart from that medical services are VERY strict in there confidentuality. If a drug adict comes into a hospital (or calls an ambulance) and drugs are found on them its APSOLUTLY out of the question to tell ANYONE about it be them parents OR the police.
Why is that do you think?
why would strict confidence when they are clearly breaking the laws of the country so important in a medical setting?
Because we want people to feel safe accessing health services. Even if someone comes in beaten to a bloody pulp (or raped) we can encorage them to report it to the police, we will even document evidence for them but we WONT make that call for them. Its THERE decision.
This is aposlutly VITAL in maintaining the trust for health, why exactly do you people think shattering that trust in a carer, dependent relationship is going to have ANY positive benifts?
What EXACTLY do you think the best outcome will be?
so you find weed,
wow
Then what?
you confrunt them with it and there responce will be....
"Thanks mum, its great you dont trust me?
heres the phone so you can report me to the cops too?"
I mean seriously when did all your brains leak out from your heads????????????
Forget that these are children for a min, say its your partner you suspect of using drugs again and so you hire these dogs to check it out.
You find nothing but they catch you, relationship over
you find drugs but you want to give them a chance, to bad, you dont trust them so relationship over
Its the same thing i think when i see these cheaters programes, they will NEVER have a happy ending because you have just destroyed the trust in the relationship ANYWAY no matter what the other person is doing, you honestly think a relationship can servive that?
Why would children be ANY different?
Oh thats right, because in the imortal words of orleander, "they are my slaves"
personally i think you understate the danger of actions like this.
Lets look at a real world example, medical services are apsolutly confidential with one exception (soon to be two). Those two exceptions are child abuse and elder abuse but apart from that medical services are VERY strict in there confidentuality. If a drug adict comes into a hospital (or calls an ambulance) and drugs are found on them its APSOLUTLY out of the question to tell ANYONE about it be them parents OR the police.
Why is that do you think?
why would strict confidence when they are clearly breaking the laws of the country so important in a medical setting?
Because we want people to feel safe accessing health services. Even if someone comes in beaten to a bloody pulp (or raped) we can encorage them to report it to the police, we will even document evidence for them but we WONT make that call for them. Its THERE decision.
This is aposlutly VITAL in maintaining the trust for health, why exactly do you people think shattering that trust in a carer, dependent relationship is going to have ANY positive benifts?
What EXACTLY do you think the best outcome will be?
so you find weed,
wow
Then what?
you confrunt them with it and there responce will be....
"Thanks mum, its great you dont trust me?
heres the phone so you can report me to the cops too?"
I mean seriously when did all your brains leak out from your heads????????????
Forget that these are children for a min, say its your partner you suspect of using drugs again and so you hire these dogs to check it out.
You find nothing but they catch you, relationship over
you find drugs but you want to give them a chance, to bad, you dont trust them so relationship over
Its the same thing i think when i see these cheaters programes, they will NEVER have a happy ending because you have just destroyed the trust in the relationship ANYWAY no matter what the other person is doing, you honestly think a relationship can servive that?
Why would children be ANY different?
Oh thats right, because in the imortal words of orleander, "they are my slaves"
No, hitting your kids works long term, the problem arrives when a teacher cannot hit a child, then the teacher has no way of disciplining the child. When my parents told me Santa didn't exist, I wasn't angry at them for it, it made more sense to me. Now, if parents tell their children they lied to them when they're ready versus letting them find out on their own, and the child did not suffer in any way(which would mean you decided to lie on the wrong thing), the child will not be angry.
Ok first this is data from a survey, not actual diagnosis, from a radically anti drug government. One which in the past has surreptitiously paid popular TV programs to push their agenda, falsified and repressed research and otherwise acted with malfeasance aforethought towards drug users by poisoning crops with human toxic herbicides, suspending civil liberties, etc.
The presumption is that any drug use is “dependency” and the cause of problems.
Second the research is being done by people who have direct financial gain from increased diagnosis of “unmet need for and use of mental health care.”
Granted these are not direct indictments, but they do I feel give sufficient cause for suspicion.
Further I find the that the current model often labels ordinary deviation from the “norm” and normal reactions to stress and other extraordinary situations as needing professional intervention even though often these issues resolve themselves or can be handled by the individual. (In fact Rogers discovered that traditional psychoanalysis and Jungian analysis actually increased recovery times, leading to his person centered therapy.)
Here is an example of some of the issues:
Resolution of drinking problems without formal treatment.
Until recently, little attention has been paid to individuals who experience problem drinking behaviors and go on to abstain or moderate their drinking without formal treatment (Sobell, Cunningham, Sobell, Agrawal et al., 1996). This topic has been ignored, in large part, owing to the perspective that alcoholism is an insidious and progressive disease that cannot be managed without formal intervention (Jellinek, 1952). Another view that has diminished interest in this area is that alcohol problems constitute a moral deviation that can be solved only through total abstinence. Today, prominent Christian and Islamic groups advocate total abstinence from alcohol, regardless of whether any physical or psychosocial problems result from its use (Fox, 1993).
http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5000508679
What Triggers the Resolution of Alcohol Problems Without Treatment?
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119300861/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Alcohol Recovery Study Finds More Than 75% Recover Without Treatment
http://ndsn.org/summer96/alcohol.html
So basically I disagree with them that they are investigating an “unmet need for mental health care.”
I do agree there is evidence that any source of stress tends to increase recreational substance use, but I don’t agree this is necessarily a problem and there is substantial evidence that such use subsides as the source of stress is resolved.
would studies done by the australian council of health resurch met your standeds of impartiality (im asking wether to spend the time actually finding it)
This is an Australian independent though goverment funded rescurch unit which does studies on all sorts of areas of health.
Before you say that it will still be biased, rember that as we have a goverment funded health care system, the goverment wants to reduce health expeniture NOT increase it (so do the doctors i might add because they get paid a salery, not by the case)
This is an Australian independent though goverment funded rescurch unit which does studies on all sorts of areas of health.
Before you say that it will still be biased, rember that as we have a goverment funded health care system, the goverment wants to reduce health expeniture NOT increase it (so do the doctors i might add because they get paid a salery, not by the case)
I think it would be easier to forgive other people than it would be to forgive my parents if they did something terrible to me. The more you trust someone the more it hurts when they stab you in the back.
Really? You think what I said is immortal and will be remembered forever? Thank you, I'm flattered that you think what I said was deserving of such reverence.
I don't suppose you could link me to my immortal words?
if my kid is an addict and its what I need to do to get them clean, I could care less if they forgive me. I'd rather have a living kid who hated me than a dead kid who thought I was cool.
We choose to forgive those we love, not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win!
[with apologies to JFK]