Reparations.

[Jeeves]

After a second reading; are you telling me that the descendants of slaves are too dumb to handle money?

No, you think they're too dumb to handle money. That's why you don't want to give them money. You want to give them shares in companies that already have plenty of money,

This will allow the descendants to receive yearly dividends and introduce them and their children to the concept of stock ownership in a business.
i.e. descendants of slaves on a sugar plantation cutting sugar cane, they would own a small part in the sugar company itself.

Not even considering that a lot of those people are teachers, doctors, and maybe stockbrokers.
In 1870, it would have made sense to turn the plantations into co-operative producers owned by the people who had been working that land.
Now, it's not what people need or necessarily want.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Now, it's not what people need or necessarily want.

need

respect and dignity ? (intangible fiscal concepts?)

want

food shelter and medical treatment & education systems(maslovs etc)

people dont get to choose how mono crops get worked
they get worked by large machines
owned by banks and large corporates as farm gate slave wages
leveraged as a sense of liberty to a certain level of affluence access.

that affluence access is sold as a political ideology

the part i agree with is problematic and convoluted
i agree in a reparations fiscal payment system that is paid for by the state to the individual descendants.
BUT !
it must not be included as a deductible against income benefits and tax rates(unemployment allowances child welfare benefits and other such government or non government aid that all gets accumulatively rated to total a annual deductible rate to bottom line balancing the income aid/social welfare.

it should be completely free of taxation and accountable deductibles.
(trickle down right wing politicians would argue pro this would allow the more affluent to create scholarship charity's and such like to extend the ladder downward[if they were morally honest])

the main problem is that all systems of us tax exemptions and income benefits are total income rated so any form of income is taken off the bottom line of the aid/basic need triangle.

you can march up and down the country screaming"what do we want?!... freedom" "when do we want it... now!"
but that doesn't put food on the table or a teacher in front of a child.

somewhere the sane must apply a need to be the dictator if the law of the jungle(capitalist) is wished to be over powered(socialist) to create the village(mixed market economy)

 

[Write4U]

No, you think they're too dumb to handle money. That's why you don't want to give them money. You want to give them shares in companies that already have plenty of money,

No it's to protect them from the 'experts in financial manipulation"

Not even considering that a lot of those people are teachers, doctors, and maybe stockbrokers.
In 1870, it would have made sense to turn the plantations into co-operative producers owned by the people who had been working that land.

That's what the 40 acres and a mule was all about , which was reversed by Jackson.

Now, it's not what people need or necessarily want.

And what is it they want, to be left alone?

In peace, so they can attend church?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

why is the usa job statistics always released without the duration of how many days the job is created for and how many jobs are lost each day ?

it is soo dishonest !

 

[Write4U]

No, you think they're too dumb to handle money. That's why you don't want to give them money. You want to give them shares in companies that already have plenty of money.

Let me repeat.
During the market collapse, it was so easy to "infuse" stimulus money that congress was not even consulted on doling out a trillion dollars to the poor suffering conglamorates, which was then primarily used for bonuses to the CEOs.

But then they had already proved they knew how to handle money. That why they made money when the financial market collapsed for everyone else. Right?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Let me repeat.

i am not an ambulance at the top of the cliff type of person.
and i had interpreted jeeves was more so not a fence at the bottom of the cliff type of person.

i am pondering a more detailed explanation of jeeves ideas.

 

[Jeeves]

No it's to protect them from the 'experts in financial manipulation"

Except it doesn't. Nobody is, except the 82 people who rule the world.
It seems to me more practical to protect them from police. And maybe pull down those other 180 or so confederate monuments.

And what is it they want, to be left alone?

How should I know? They're a whole lot of different individual persons, in different individual circumstance, with different individual challenges. Even those few I've actually met had very little in common with one another, which gave no clue what all descendants of slaves want.
What makes you think you know what's good for all of "them" - even if "they" could be identified?
What makes you think owning a few shares of Amalgamated Sugar (purveyors of obesity, rotten teeth and diabetes) would make all these different people happy, or give all of them a sense of justice?

Investing in a volatile, insecure, dishonest financial system is not the right solution for everyone.
It just isn't.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Investing in a volatile, insecure, dishonest financial system is not the right solution for everyone.
It just isn't.

that bit was what i was pondering
indeed
what about (just musing)government bonds on a 2 year divined yield to bank account term deposits paying monthly interest out ?

its either that or giving away free guns & ammunition ?(without licenses)

 

[spidergoat]

Sure, but we are talking about targeted reparations, not universal healthcare which would automatically include all persons anyway.

And it is not very likely that the bulk of descendants from slaves would be very rich at this time, thus the bulk of the reparations would go to people who might not ever have had a savings account, let alone an investment portfolio, modest as it might be.

To be able to say that one has an investment in the stock market is tremendously empowering to a poor person.

So is making one's own decisions. Fuck the stock market.

 

[Jeeves]

Let me repeat.
During the market collapse, it was so easy to "infuse" stimulus money that congress was not even consulted on doling out a trillion dollars to the poor suffering conglamorates, which was then primarily used for bonuses to the CEOs.

You keep telling me this. On one level it's not relevant because the problem with documenting each individual's descent from slavery is nothing like the problem of handing large wads of cash to half a dozen high-profile corporate entities.

But then they had already proved they knew how to handle money. That why they made money when the financial market collapsed for everyone else. Right?

So why do you want to give them more? If you have billions to invest in poor people (I don't know how many of the descendants of slaves are in which income bracket - do you? I'm not mad keen to give more shares to those who already have portfolios, are you?) start with perinatal care and school books.

 

[Write4U]

So is making one's own decisions. Fuck the stock market.

You're missing the point. This is not supposed to be a pay-off!

It's reparation, statement of recognition that a terrible wrong was committed and that "the white man" recognizes this fact. The blacks are not allowed to forget, that is clear.

Georgetown University could become the first college in the nation to mandate a fee to benefit descendants of slaves sold by the university nearly 200 years ago -- a debate that takes place against the backdrop of a broader political conversation unfolding on the 2020 presidential campaign trail about reparations.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/geo...elming-favor-27-fee-slavery/story?id=62316394

Of course the amount of money arrived at through some bizarre mathematical contortion is an insult on injury, rather than an atonement for past wrongs.

If they really wanted to make a statement, take those 27.00 dollars and calculate 200 years of compound interest @7%. That would yield a fair amount.

 

[Write4U]

You keep telling me this. On one level it's not relevant because the problem with documenting each individual's descent from slavery is nothing like the problem of handing large wads of cash to half a dozen high-profile corporate entities.

So why do you want to give them more? If you have billions to invest in poor people (I don't know how many of the descendants of slaves are in which income bracket - do you? I'm not mad keen to give more shares to those who already have portfolios, are you?) start with perinatal care and school books.

You can't even see irony when it stares you in the face.

 

[Jeeves]

You can't even see irony when it stares you in the face.

Maybe it was staring too hard, or it doesn't appreciate a response in kind. You're pointing out as how the speculators and bankers were irresponsible, causing small investors to lose their money. And yet you think it's a good idea to create more small investors for those same irresponsible manipulators to fleece in the next cycle.
Anyway, please continue without my annoying intrusions.

 

[Write4U]

Maybe it was staring too hard, or it doesn't appreciate a response in kind. You're pointing out as how the speculators and bankers were irresponsible, causing small investors to lose their money. And yet you think it's a good idea to create more small investors for those same irresponsible manipulators to fleece in the next cycle.
Anyway, please continue without my annoying intrusions.

It's called betting with the house. The problem lies in getting your foot in the door. Your initial stake.

Capitalism is here to stay, whether we like it or not. The trick is to avoid paying taxes, which the rich guys are very good at. Passive income is taxed at the lowest rate of all incomes.

That's why the portfolio should be based on passive income. Don't need to hire specialists. Set it up that way to begin with.

 

[Jeeves]

It's called betting with the house.

Call it whatever you like.

 

[Write4U]

Right , you have made your comments. Others will judge if you are looking at this from the proper perspective, i.e. the recipients welfare.

 

[sculptor]

Alexander Fraser Tytler
anyone?
attributed--but perhaps he did not actually say the following?

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury.

so
why stop short
let's give reparations to everyone with an ancestor who was badly used/mistreated

what %
60-70-80-99?

 

[Write4U]

let's give reparations to everyone with an ancestor who was badly used/mistreated

It has nothing to do with being treated badly. It depends on the forced economic value contributed by the slaves, without compensation.

What we have here is a case of value-added economics.

 

[sculptor]

example
I hired excavators several years ago
One of the older men who did the work had worked for a company who invested the employees retirement fund in their own stock---then went bankrupt.
So, he lost his job and his retirement savings through no fault of his own.

Where is the value that he had added to the company?

..............
who would stand up for poor Willy Loman?

 

[Bells]

let's give reparations to everyone with an ancestor who was badly used/mistreated

"An ancestor"?

Slavery in America saw generation after generation of slaves. They were denied their freedom, forced to work for no pay. Often mistreated. Stripped of their fundamental human rights. Removed from their families. Denied the right to their culture and tribal ties. Sold like cattle.

His name was either Peter or Gordon. Those scars on his back were from being whipped by a slave master.

And you think it all just comes down to "badly used/mistreated"? Leaving aside just how slavery paved the way for the abuse and loss of rights for future generations..

You want to try to argue that point seriously? With a straight face? Or are you just trolling at this point?

example
I hired excavators several years ago
One of the older men who did the work had worked for a company who invested the employees retirement fund in their own stock---then went bankrupt.
So, he lost his job and his retirement savings through no fault of his own.

Where is the value that he had added to the company?

..............
who would stand up for poor Willy Loman?

This is comparable to your country's history of slavery?

Really?