Reparations.

[Jeeves]

I don't know.

I'm going for a big No on that one. I strongly suspect the majority of Americans today want all that forgotten, as if it had happened a thousand years ago, to some whole other nation. Anyway, it all ended with the 13th amendment, in 1865. Nobody lives that long, so every Black person alive today started out all equal and fine, and has nothing to complain about. This is the attitude I most often encounter - like a century is erased from the national memory. They knew nothing about Jim Crow, the scam to arrest Black men and make them work as convict-slaves, miscegenation laws, the KKK, property laws, segregation, lynchings and beatings, discrimination in schools and workplaces ... None of that happened: national amnesia.

It just occurred to me as a viable solution with positive long term secondary social results.

Having a little piece of the pie is the dream of most.

As to that, are you old enough to have watched The Jeffersons? It was a spinoff of All in the Family , one of the most honest looks at America that popular television has ever presented. But that was almost half a century ago, and is all ancient history. Since then, the working class, nascent racial conciliation and Black aspiration have all been disappeared.
Yes, I do see your thought-experiment, but I can't really agree with it.
Handing out tickets on the Titanic isn't much of an apology.

 

[Write4U]

I'm going for a big No on that one

OK.

It was mentioned on the news and piqued my curiosity as what could possibly be considered a fair (belated) reparation for a historic wrong.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Sounds like a give away to the rich.

https://www.thebalance.com/health-care-inequality-facts-types-effect-solution-4174842

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/06/wea...an-poor-and-middle-class-reversing-trend.html

Research has shown that high-deductible plans can discourage health-care usage, particularly among people with lower incomes.

 

[Write4U]

As to that, are you old enough to have watched The Jeffersons?

Jeffersons?
You are a little naive my friend. I am a survivor of this little piece of history.

The Dutch famine of 1944–45, known in the Netherlands as the Hongerwinter (literal translation: hunger winter), was a famine that took place in the German-occupied Netherlands, especially in the densely populated western provinces north of the great rivers, during the winter of 1944–45, near the end of World War II.

A German blockade cut off food and fuel shipments from farm towns. Some 4.5 million were affected and survived thanks to soup kitchens. Loe de Jong (1914–2005), author of The Kingdom of the Netherlands During World War II, estimated at least 22,000 deaths occurred due to the famine.[1] Another author estimated 18,000 deaths from the famine.[2][3] Most of the victims were reportedly elderly men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_famine_of_1944–45

I was six. You presume to lecture me about the historical economic importance of the Jeffersons?

 

[Write4U]

'm going for a big No on that one. I strongly suspect the majority of Americans today want all that forgotten, as if it had happened a thousand years ago, to some whole other nation. Anyway, it all ended with the 13th amendment, in 1865. Nobody lives that long, so every Black person alive today started out all equal and fine, and has nothing to complain about. This is the attitude I most often encounter - like a century is erased from the national memory. They knew nothing about Jim Crow, the scam to arrest Black men and make them work as convict-slaves, miscegenation laws, the KKK, property laws, segregation, lynchings and beatings, discrimination in schools and workplaces ... None of that happened: national amnesia.

Really? For you maybe, but why not ask these people who were peacefully engaged in prayer.

Deputy's son faces charges in burning down three black churches in Louisiana
"It has been especially painful because it reminds us of a very dark past of intimidation and fear," Louisiana's governor said of the church fires.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ct-arrested-louisiana-church-burnings-n993456

 

[billvon]

if you are referring to the human condition to addiction and reducing returns of stimulation, maybe you could state your idea. you would cancel all opioid pain killers from the market currently & ban all drugs ?

Nope. People can do whatever they like, including destroy themselves. It's a free country.
If you start a program to help people, though, it would be wise (IMO) to not make it useful as a tool of destruction.

you would ban personal relationships ?

Nope. People can have whatever relationships they like, including with psychopaths, rapists, criminals etc.
If you start a dating program to help disabled people, though, it would be wise (IMO) not to include psychopaths and rapists in your pool of potential dates.

have you really thought out your moral and ethical concepts?
please explain... ?

Yep. See above.

 

[Jeeves]

Jeffersons?
You presume to lecture me about the historical economic importance of the Jeffersons?

Not in the least. I was suggesting a negative aspect to sucking disadvantaged people into the big lie of capitalism; giving them a stake in their own destruction. Turning decent working people into mini Ben Carsons.

I don't follow the connection to WWII.
I did suggest that white Americans are not in a mood to pay any reparations to the descendants of slaves. A good many of them were not even keen on affirmative action to close the gap a little way and it seems to me the deputy's son has more company every day.

Sorry to have offended.

 

[Write4U]

A good many of them were not even keen on affirmative action to close the gap a little way and it seems to me the deputy's son has more company every day.

Sorry to have offended.

No offense taken.
But it's all too easy to "forget" the terrible violence 'misguided" people can inflict on each other.

Did you know the holocaust never happened? 4 million Jews did not die in gas-chambers.
The "final solution" is just a myth, don't you know?

I saw our Jewish family doctor brutally murdered across the street where I lived.
This is why I remember where most would like to forget or minimize the evil. How convenient.

Can you possible place yourself in the shoes of a "slave"? Really?
Many black people can. It is the white people we conveniently forget and white-wash the whole affair.

Isn't there a saying about:
"Those Who Do Not Learn From History Are Doomed To Repeat It."

 

[Jeeves]

Can you possible place yourself in the shoes of a "slave"? Really?
Many black people can. It is the white people we conveniently forget and white-wash the whole affair.

That's what I was talking about. The ones who would be required to give up some of their advantage and privilege in order to compensate, even in a very small way, the peoples on whose backs that privilege was created (I don't just mean the slaves, either; all the South American, Pacific and middle eastern nations they've despoiled, and to whom the border is closed....)
and even the Supreme Court doesn't think The Voting Rights Act needs to be ensured anymore, I'm pretty sure it won't force corporations to sign over shares.
There might also be an enormous, expensive and humiliating legal hassle imposed on anyone trying to claim such compensation: Prove your ancestors were slaves. That document is sealed. That document was lost in a fire. That document will cost $50 and take six to ten months. That document is unacceptable. etc etc etc

But my biggest problem with the scheme is the one I outlined before: forcing people to invest in their oppressors' wealth-accumulation.
I can think of some better ways to proceed.

 

[Write4U]

But my biggest problem with the scheme is the one I outlined before: forcing people to invest in their oppressors' wealth-accumulation.
I can think of some better ways to proceed.

That makes no sense whatever.
We would be forcing the oppressors to share some of their accumulated wealth with their victims i.e. reparations.

Lest they forget history.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

They knew nothing about Jim Crow, the scam to arrest Black men and make them work as convict-slaves,

Racial profiling
family money
alumni university enrollment(in private schools & private university's, who cares ! in public schools and public university's, it is equal to racism)
social cultural norms of assumed authority figures

poor person caught smoking a joint(illegal search and evidence planting with no legal representation)
rich person caught smoking a joint(cautioned)

is the law equally applied ?

lawless neighborhoods where USA police shoot first and ask questions later.
police culture training new recruits to shoot first and ask questions later

usa gun culture
usa culture
usa lust for power
usa lust for greed
usa capitalist humans rights culture(those with money have rights, those whom are poor have no rights)

which political party supports which side ?

 

[Jeeves]

That makes no sense whatever.
We would be forcing the oppressors to share some of their accumulated wealth with their victims i.e. reparations.

That's one part I don't believe. No government that can possibly get elected in the US is going to do that.
What could maybe happen is that the government hands out stock certificates - after putting the recipients through the above-mentioned legal wringer. Which means:
1. that the government would have to buy shares at market value - which would, of course, go through the roof the minute this news was made public, paying out big dividends to the large stockholders and profits to the stock market speculators.
2. The government uses tax revenue to make the purchases. Working people pay taxes; corporate magnates have exemptions and shelters. So you're making the recipients, and their neighbours who don't benefit from historical wealth distribution, pay for the reparations.
Moreover, those same beneficiaries continue to benefit disproportionately:
3. Every share is an investment in the company, so that it can grow and make more profit.
4. The small shareholders get little tiny dividends; the large shareholders get large dividends; the top brass get huge bonuses, private jets, even bigger expense accounts, and more tax havens.
5. The small shareholders have zero control over the company, its policies and business practices. They're as helpless as ever.
6. And they can't even use the original purchase price to buy a reliable car to get to their crappy jobs, where they have no control over anything.

If you wanted to invest in the disenfranchised people of your country, there are ways that would empower them.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

1. Which means that the government would have to buy shares at market value

quantitative stock easy...

when the government bailed out the big corporates in the 2008 crash, did they devalue the us dollar equally or just print money to be a currency manipulator ?
lol

5. The small shareholders have zero control over the company, its policies and business practices. They're as helpless as ever.

unless they all band together to vote democratically for a board change/CEO change and advertise to sell to a specific price or buyer...

oh but suddenly democracy and capitalism is not allowed lol !
private equity penis cake sales regulations for all the poor people only.
oh so democracy
lol

 

[Jeeves]

unles they all band together to vote democratically for a board change/ceo change and adtertise to sell to a specific price or buyer...

Not very practical: they're scattered all over the country, don't know one another, and are not free to travel to the stockholder meetings anyway. They have no financial/business advisor to co-ordinate an effort of that magnitude, and most don't have the requisite knowledge. [/QUOTE]

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Not very practical: they're scattered all over the country, don't know one another, and are not free to travel to the stockholder meetings anyway. They have no financial/business advisor to co-ordinate an effort of that magnitude, and most don't have the requisite knowledge.

proxy vote
the internet
all pay a dollar to pay for the person going to vote.
...
its soo easy
but not if the default is selfish greed

macro-penis-politics of the greedy small hands liberal conservative moral fascist lol
its oh so normal !

apart from the tiny hands penis-party seeking to prosecute facebook members chatting about their stock market shares as collusion to avoid fat rich psychopaths from lording it over the working class.
that is a stock manipulation law of racketeering
liberal conservatives will explain this as a moral outrage for not having a giant picture of a penis on their facebook profile or some such moral absolute.

 

[Bells]

Hmmmm...

I have a novel idea. Ask those descendants what they want. Given their ancestors literally gave their freedom and often, their lives to build the US, as slaves, don't you all think this discussion is missing a vital component?

Because right now, you are mostly a bunch of white people trying to decide what black people need, deserve, should or should not get... Even to the point of food they should be given..

Irony does not even cut it.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Even to the point of food they should be given..

Irony does not even cut it.

April 11, 2019
A Trump Administration proposal potentially cutting food stamps could cost New York City almost $100 million a year in lost benefits, resulting in more than $150 million annually in lost business, say city officials.

In formal comments opposing the plan, the Office of the Mayor told federal officials nearly 50,000 city residents would lose a monthly average of $151 in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) benefits.

https://citylimits.org/2019/04/11/trump-admin-s-food-stamp-move-could-cost-city-economy-150m/


is anyone talking and/or linking this to farming subsidies ?
https://farmpolicynews.illinois.edu/2019/03/trump-budget-seeks-subsidy-cuts-to-farmers/

The executive branch released its Federal budget proposal this week. Like previous Trump administration budget outlines in 2017, and last year, Monday’s framework sought cuts to U.S. Department of Agriculture programs. Today’s update highlights recent news reports that discuss some of the specific items contained in the President’s Fiscal Year 2020 budget request.

Wall Street Journal writer Jesse Newman reported on Monday that, “A Trump administration proposal to cut Agriculture Department funding by 15% drew consternation from growers and ranchers who are struggling through a multiyear slump in the U.S. farm economy.

“The White House on Monday proposed a budget for fiscal 2020 that included $20.8 billion in funding for the USDA, down $3.6 billion from the agency’s estimate for 2019.

how do you define a capitalist business that requires 21 billion in government aid every year ?
that doesn't sound like a profit.
that sounds like a loss

 

[Jeeves]

proxy vote

Who represents them? How do they reach a consensus? How do they find out who else got shares in the same company?
How much do they know about the way corporate decisions are made, protocol, officers, etc, and how much time do they have to learn all that shit when they're working and taking care of their kids? And why should they waste their own precious lives on the running of businesses they're not interested in?You're just giving them more work, instead of benefits.
No, it's not practical.
Like Bells says: if we really cared about making people's lives better, we would ask them what they need. Pay off your mortgage? College tuition? Start your own business? Improve your neighbourhood - better schools, decent daycare, safe playground? Train for a better job? 24-hour walk-in clinic? Produce co-op?
And if some of the people who benefit happen to have be descended from transported prisoners, refugees or migrants, so what?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

You're just giving them more work, instead of benefits.

greed morality

why give the greedy more ?

this is the question your asking.

the reality is the over all benefit of cost saving they receive by maximizing their returns on investment.

but... the majority of americans dont recycle because they dont care.
making them care is a complex convoluted question of premise.

https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-018-0347-9

Results

Cooking increased overall from 2003 to 2016. The percent of college-educated men cooking increased from 37.9% in 2003 to 51.9% in 2016, but men with less than high school education who cook did not change (33.2% in 2016) (p < 0.05). College-educated women who cook increased from 64.7% in 2003 to 68.7% in 2016, while women with less than high school education had no change (72.3% in 2016) (p < 0.05). Women with less education spent more time cooking per day than high-educated women, but the reverse was true for men. Among men, the percent who cook increased for all race/ethnic groups except non-Hispanic blacks. Among women, only non-Hispanic whites increased in percent who cook. Among both men and women, non-Hispanic blacks had the lowest percentage who cooked, and non-Hispanic others spent the greatest amount of time cooking.

 

[Write4U]

Not very practical: they're scattered all over the country, don't know one another, and are not free to travel to the stockholder meetings anyway. They have no financial/business advisor to co-ordinate an effort of that magnitude, and most don't have the requisite knowledge.

During the market collapse, it was so easy to "infuse" stimulus money that congress was not even consulted on doling out a trillion dollars to the poor suffering conglamorates, which was then primarily used for bonuses to the CEOs.

That little trillion dollar bail-out was concluded in a SINGLE DAY. But a few million in small portfolios is IMPOSSIBLE to do for the poor, much too complicated, no?

After a second reading; are you telling me that the descendants of slaves are too dumb to handle money? Are you still advancing that racist 3/4 human notion?
Jeeves, Jeeves, tsk, tsk.