Religious Tolerance

superluminal said:
Oh yes I can. i HAVE AS MUCH SUPPORT FOR MY IDEA AS YOU HAVE FOR YOUR GOD.
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There may not be "evidence," but there is certainly philosophy. Follow it much? The idea of your elephant is not relevant to the origin of life, of everything, dearest. It is quite a substantial thing to ponder! In fact, the existence of a god(even devoid of religion) has been a pretty hot topic for some pretty intelligent people for quite a while. Not so easily dismissed..cuz..ya know, we really have no idea *physically* where everything came from. No freakin clue! And it's highly unlikely we ever will! So while you may deem it irrational for people to assume there's maybe something, ya know, greater than what we all-powerful humans can concieve of, maybe you could expand your mind enough to realize that the limited understanding we do have about our universe in no way instills a faith in everyone that science will discover how *everything* came to be. Eternity is not such an easy concept to explain.



superluminal said:
"precious" science? Science, my deluded friend, provides you with your very way of living. It's proven. God did nothing to change the way of life for humans since the beginning of recorded history.
How old are you? If you're over 30, you'd be dead of natural causes in a pre-science era. You're welcome for you life, which science has provided where the god idea has failed miserably.
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Thank you for informing me of what a great use to me science has been, I had no idea. I bow down to your almighty knowledge and insight... If only I had been aware before! I might have never used the word "precious" sarcastically and provoked you to waste your energy informing deluded lil ol' me of the wonders of science. Again, I thank you!
 
leopold,

I have a genetic propensity (as do you and every human) to fear and hate "others" who are not part of your group. You may recognize this as the origins of racism, religious crusades, and genocide. It is a genetic component of us all and had survival value during our early evolution. Am I wrong to criticize racists just because it's part of their genetic makeup? We, as humans with reason, are expected to transcend our basic genetic predispositions (like racism and religion) and move beyond them.
 
superluminal

i understand both sides

there is evidence why people believe

there is no evidence god actually exists
 
FallingSkyward said:
...we really have no idea *physically* where everything came from. No freakin clue! And it's highly unlikely we ever will!
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The Big Bang is the accepted "origin of everything" and is supported by overwhelming observational evidence. The current general theory is that the universe is infinite - extending infinitely into the past and future. Always was, always will be. The Big Bang is viewed as a vacuum fluctuation in a preexisting condensed space.

Again, I thank you!
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You're welcome. My pleasure.

I love the way people who know nothing about the current state of scientific understanding make grand pronouncements about what we don't know. Funny.
 
superluminal

God is a word with no meaning. Thus the word, and the entity that theists believe in is undiscribable, an entity void of identity, void of human conception, and unknowable. No emperical proof of such an entity exists, and the whole concept of belief in this entity is based on faith.

The only meaning applied to this word, has been whose god of the land and which time in history was god for them. I.E. Zeus, Olimpus, Mythras they were all gods, Allah, and now the Christian god, just another word, a meaningless word, that only means what the believer wants it too. For the Islamist god is Allah, Jews YHVH, the Christian plainly God, who had a son called jesus, and bla,bla,bla.. A word with no identity, only the antropomorphical identity given by a particular group.

Many ancient gods, were discovered to be just natural phenomenom, thus as science and knowlege progressed, gods were dying left and right. i.e. The god of thunder, god of the sea, god's whom you consider non-existent compared to the Christian god. Thus "it" is just one more superstition in the list of mystical minds of men.
If the word god to me is meaningless that is I don't know what god is, neither can you tell me what god is. In order for me to claim, There's no god, I presume to have a defenition of what god is, it would render me in the same falacie as the theist claiming that there is a god, because neither of us have a defenition of god. So in conclusion, I don't claim there's no god, (I don't know what god is) in order for me to make such a claim, I would have to know the defenition of god, and furthemore since it's existence can't be known or is unknown I can't claim that X does not exist, since I don't even have defenition of X. Thus this is my stance: I don't believe any evidence has been shown to prove that X exists, no emperical proof exists, no defenition, other than empty claims (Of an unknown) entity who supposedly lives outside of time, and created the universe bla,bla,bla, but not one iota of claims have been proven factual in reality.

Basically here too there's a conflict, since the overwhelming majority of people are religious they then try and (force) their beliefs their code of morals, and doctrines in political cyrcles make laws that may hinder our freedom to "believe as we wish" Such as victimless crimes as prostitution for example is completely demoralised by religious sense of morals. So basically I too fight for the freedom to believe as you do, but the odds are well stock against liberal secularist.
 
it is comforting to believe there is no GOD... for the sinner who cannot bring himself to repent and feel shame for the scum that they actually are...

the religious man.. repents and seeks to improve himself...

the GODLESS man spends his time seeking pleasure of mind and body.

-MT
 
Mosheh Thezion said:
it is comforting to believe there is no GOD... for the sinner who cannot bring himself to repent and feel shame for the scum that they actually are...

the religious man.. repents and seeks to improve himself...

the GODLESS man spends his time seeking pleasure of mind and body.

-MT
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To all who care to read this:

THIS is the arrogance and superiority of the theist. He convicts himself with his own words. We are scum. We seek nothing but self gratification. This man is a fool. And dangerous. The religious mania and power, in the hands of self appointed judges such as this man, have been responsible for the deaths of millions throughout history and the suppression of human advancement.

I despise you.
 
superluminal said:
The Big Bang is the accepted "origin of everything" and is supported by overwhelming observational evidence. The current general theory is that the universe is infinite - extending infinitely into the past and future. Always was, always will be. The Big Bang is viewed as a vacuum fluctuation in a preexisting condensed space.



You're welcome. My pleasure.

I love the way people who know nothing about the current state of scientific understanding make grand pronouncements about what we don't know. Funny.
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Within the confines of big bang theory, the dimensions of the universe are traced back to a singular point of origin, and then can be traced no more. Even scientists point to the big bang, and suspend the concept of "before" and discount the concept of a cause. But stubborn curiousity begs to know, what was that thing that "big banged" and why did it do so?

Science has discovered some pretty incredible things, but it has not yet managed to detect or measure any type of condition prior to this so-called Big Bang. This Big Bang appears to be the turning point between *something* and the reality that we can now perceive. The Big Bang is a scientific frontier that stands as a moment T=0. What the question begs is, what was going on at T=-1? That's what I'd like to know, my friend.

Big Bang is not the origin of everything; only that which we can percieve.
 
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superluminal said:
To all who care to read this:

THIS is the arrogance and superiority of the theist. He convicts himself with his own words. We are scum. We seek nothing but self gratification. This man is a fool. And dangerous. The religious mania and power, in the hands of self appointed judges such as this man, have been responsible for the deaths of millions throughout history and the suppression of human advancement.

I despise you.
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again.. you throw forth the response of the small weak mind...

like a child, you lash out... typical.

-MT
 
FallingSkyward said:
...what was going on at T=-1? That's what I'd like to know, my friend.

Big Bang is not the origin of everything; only that which we can percieve.
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This is a damn fine question. A good scientific question. But simply because the conditions at T-1 are currently unknown (and may remain so) why postulate a god and the whole mythology that goes along with it? And then attempt to base your life around it?

That's what I'd like to know, my friend.
 
Mosheh Thezion said:
again.. you throw forth the response of the small weak mind...

like a child, you lash out... typical.

-MT
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Again, you betray your self-percieved superiority to those who don't believe as you do.
 
superluminal said:
Again, you betray your self-percieved superiority to those who don't believe as you do.
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did i strike a nerve??

lets see... i talked about sin.. and repentance... and shame...

AND YOU GOT REAL MAD.

is there something you want to tell the world? get off your chest?

some terrible crime or secret pleasure?

does it make you mad when people say you should feel bad about doing it.. or having done it..... have you done bad things? does it make you mad?

do you hope there is no GOD.. so that there is then.. no hell...

and so you can go to sleep alittle less scared??

im sorry.... i should'nt of said anything..

lets forget it.

-MT
 
MT,

You got it. I raped my dog and beat my girlfriend (or was it the other way around?). I don't want there to be a hell because SATAN will know how bad I was and rape me with a dogs severed penis and beat me with a plastic replica of my girlfriend - for ETERNITY! Praise GOD!

You really are a naive little religious zealot aren't you? Do you masturbate to your Jesus statue before bed? Think that'll get you into Heaven? Or maybe you just salivate over pictures of burned heathens?
 
superluminal said:
leopold,

I have a genetic propensity (as do you and every human) to fear and hate "others" who are not part of your group. You may recognize this as the origins of racism, religious crusades, and genocide. It is a genetic component of us all and had survival value during our early evolution. Am I wrong to criticize racists just because it's part of their genetic makeup? We, as humans with reason, are expected to transcend our basic genetic predispositions (like racism and religion) and move beyond them.
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*************
M*W: I can envision it now.

A couple of Neanderthals were lying on the frozen tundra looking up at the night sky. (It has not yet been determined if they were lying with each other as they would lie with a woman, or if they were just passed out after eating some rotten grapes).

Anyhoo, one Neanderthal says to the other, "Ooh-ee-ooh-wah-wah," {which translated means, "sky woman give sky man bad fruit to eat."}

The other Neanderthal man turned over and said, "ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang," {which translated means, "hell no, sky woman eat fruit of sky man's loins but she no likee it.").

Just about that time, way long after the Neanderthal women had finished birthing their babies, after they had returned to their cave from "lying in" with other Neanderthal women (which apparently wasn't reported or frowned upon), by helping them to give birth to their little darling Cro-Magnons. After cleaning up the mess the men made around the campfire, after taking the arrowheads, shards, and crude tools down to the river, one Neanderthal woman says to the other in disgust, "Nannie-nannie-fo-fannie-fo-fannie!" {which translated means, "Just look at those two old hairy coots over there. All they do is grunt all day and lay on the frozen tundra on those warm mammoth recliners we made for them!"}.

The other Neanderthal woman turned and said, "Fannie-fo-fannie-fee-fie-fo-fannie-Nannie!", {which translated means, "Have you ever seen a couple of idiots like that? All they do is lie there and flick that stupid stick up at the sky!"
 
superluminal said:
MW,

All I have to say to that is "Oompah loompah doopety do". You can translate for yourself.
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*************
M*W: Oooh, superlum, I translated "Oompah loompah doopety do," and now I'm blushing like a virginal bride to be wedded! {which translated means, "Meet me at my tent in the refugee camp around midnight, and we'll talk about the first thing that comes up!"}
 
flanders%20greets.jpg
 
superluminal said:
This is a damn fine question. A good scientific question. But simply because the conditions at T-1 are currently unknown (and may remain so) why postulate a god and the whole mythology that goes along with it? And then attempt to base your life around it?

That's what I'd like to know, my friend.
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What about Deism? You do realize it is possible to believe in God without organized religion, right?

You acknowledge the question of what was happening at T-1, but I'll take it a step further and ask who or what decided the laws of physics? We know that planets orbit stars because of gravity, who or what created gravity? Why is gravity a byproduct of mass? Matter tends to compress into spheres, why is that? And who or what decreed that is how it would be? We have many such question about our Universe, what is wrong with using a supreme being or a all-powerful "force" as an answer? I'm not talking about a God that floods the Earth because people are mean, I'm talking about a supernatural, all powerful entity or "force" that decided the very laws the Universe lives by.
 
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