"religious" music

I don't know if anyone listens to Flyleaf or Anberlin but they're quite good. Depending on how you define religious bands Yellowcard and Paramore could count.

Anberlin - The Unwinding Cable Car
Emotive unstable you're like an unwinding cable car
Listening for voices, but it's the choices that make us who we are
Go your own way, even seasons have changed just burn those new leaves over
So self-absorbed you've seemed to ignore the prayers that have already come about

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la
La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la

Backing away from the problem of pain you never had a home
You've been misguided, you're hiding in shadows for so very long
Don't you believe that you've been deceived that you're no better than...
The hair in your eyes, it never disguised what you're really thinking of

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

You're so brilliant, don't soon forget
You're so brilliant, grace marked your heart
You're so brilliant, don't soon forget
You're so brilliant, grace marked your heart
You're so brilliant (This is the correlation)
Don't soon forget (Between salvation and love, don't drop your arms)
You're so brilliant (I'll guard your heart)
Grace marked your heart (With quiet words I'll lead you in and out of the dark)

La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la
(Don't drop your arms)
La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la

This is the correlation of salvation and love (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
With quiet words I'll lead you in

This is the correlation of salvation and love (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
With quiet words I'll lead you in
 
I don't know if anyone listens to Flyleaf or Anberlin but they're quite good. Depending on how you define religious bands Yellowcard and Paramore could count.

Anberlin - The Unwinding Cable Car
Emotive unstable you're like an unwinding cable car
Listening for voices, but it's the choices that make us who we are
Go your own way, even seasons have changed just burn those new leaves over
So self-absorbed you've seemed to ignore the prayers that have already come about

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la
La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la

Backing away from the problem of pain you never had a home
You've been misguided, you're hiding in shadows for so very long
Don't you believe that you've been deceived that you're no better than...
The hair in your eyes, it never disguised what you're really thinking of

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

You're so brilliant, don't soon forget
You're so brilliant, grace marked your heart
You're so brilliant, don't soon forget
You're so brilliant, grace marked your heart
You're so brilliant (This is the correlation)
Don't soon forget (Between salvation and love, don't drop your arms)
You're so brilliant (I'll guard your heart)
Grace marked your heart (With quiet words I'll lead you in and out of the dark)

La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la
(Don't drop your arms)
La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la

This is the correlation of salvation and love (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
With quiet words I'll lead you in

This is the correlation of salvation and love (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
With quiet words I'll lead you in

there's a song on the radio right now by anberlin that i like, but i don't think it's this one. i LOVE flyfleaf. i posted a few vids of theirs in this thread. and i never would have pegged paramore. i like paramore.

this is the song i heard from anberlin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjE_2fFMnG0
 
there's a song on the radio right now by anberlin that i like, but i don't think it's this one. i LOVE flyfleaf. i posted a few vids of theirs in this thread. and i never would have pegged paramore. i like paramore.

this is the song i heard from anberlin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjE_2fFMnG0

I have a couple Anberlin albums and they're quite good live, love Paramore and Flyleaf. I think Paramore have the occasional reference, and they're all religious, but lately it seems like Hayley fighting it and the band(Josh and Zac have now left).
I seem to pick these religious bands up from somewhere, not bad for a heathen huh? ;)
EDIT: apparently Underoath count too! Hell yeh... wait that probably isn't the right phrase is it?
 
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I have a couple Anberlin albums and they're quite good live, love Paramore and Flyleaf. I think Paramore have the occasional reference, and they're all religious, but lately it seems like Hayley fighting it and the band(Josh and Zac have now left).
I seem to pick these religious bands up from somewhere, not bad for a heathen huh? ;)
EDIT: apparently Underoath count too! Hell yeh... wait that probably isn't the right phrase is it?

i saw underoath at warped one year. they were good. and it was cool that they gave a shout out to jesus at the end of their set.

i think more and more, instead of bands that suck marketing religious music to their religious people, really good artists who are passionate about spirituality and christ and the state of humanity, and free to express themselves, are making great music.
 
I like Flyleaf, I learned "Cassie" for an audition once.

Evanescence was picked up by Christian radio when they first came out--and frankly I can see why. When Ben Moody heard about this he said in an interview, "I can't believe our songs are being played on the fucking Christian stations." [Not an exact quote but I got the F-word right.] They immediately stopped. ;)

There's lots of good rock and roll out there with religious lyrics. They're always a generation behind so it sounds like 70s-80s formula-rock, but it's pretty good if you like that sort of thing. A lot of it isn't especially strident and just tells us to be better, kinder, more responsible people, which ain't really such a bad message. Especially when you compare it to the average rap tune. :)

Jars of Clay has some good songs and "Flood" even got some airplay on the mainstream stations.

I'm sure by now everyone has heard Matisyahu, the Chassidic rapper. He's popular in Latin America and Shakira invited him to open for her on her tour a couple of years ago. He turned her down because the Chassidim are ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that men and women should avoid socializing, especially for recreation.

The chance of a lifetime!
 
i saw underoath at warped one year. they were good. and it was cool that they gave a shout out to jesus at the end of their set.

i think more and more, instead of bands that suck marketing religious music to their religious people, really good artists who are passionate about spirituality and christ and the state of humanity, and free to express themselves, are making great music.

Ah that's true. A lot of them don't want to be classed as Christian bands, but don't hide their beliefs, so it's reaching a wider audience who interpret it their own way. I don't really care about their beliefs and the music is good, but if they get a bit too preachy and all it could get annoying.
 
Ah that's true. A lot of them don't want to be classed as Christian bands, but don't hide their beliefs, so it's reaching a wider audience who interpret it their own way. I don't really care about their beliefs and the music is good, but if they get a bit too preachy and all it could get annoying.

it's annoying to me when it's preachy like, they just take some religious rhetoric, or some scripture, and put a melody to it, particularly when the melody sucks too. ha ha. or when it's obviously some political platform or gimmick. that's annoying too.

but when i get the impression that it comes from the heart, and is based in personal experience, that's when it's good, or at least has the potential to be good. it comes down to passion i think ultimately. i think passion is the key to making great music.

i don't know if you guys have heard much jane's addiction, but they're one of my all time favorite bands. this song is a little bit harsh, but it definitely has a message...

everybody don their diapers and dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Ia1Ed6ohM

lyrics...


Pig's in the mud
When he tires
Pig's in zen
Pig's in zen
Pig is nude
Unashamed
Pig's in zen
Pig's in zen

Talkin bout the pig
The pig
The pig - uh
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pig
Goddamned pig

Pig mounts sow
When he's wound
Pig's in zen
Pig's in zen
Pig eats shit
But only when he hungers
Pig's in zen
Pig's in zen

Talkin bout the pig
The pig
The pig - uh
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pig
Goddamned pig

Oh, I know about war
But I just wanna fuck
I know about pain and suffering and being cold
But I just wanna fuck

The pig is led to the slaughter
Pig is led to the slaughter
This he says
Is the price some pay
For a simple life
How he feels
Thats proof for him
Pig's in zen

Talkin bout the pig
The pig
The pig
The pig
The pig
The pig
Goddamned pig
The pig - uh
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pig
 
it's annoying to me when it's preachy like, they just take some religious rhetoric, or some scripture, and put a melody to it, particularly when the melody sucks too. ha ha. or when it's obviously some political platform or gimmick. that's annoying too.

but when i get the impression that it comes from the heart, and is based in personal experience, that's when it's good, or at least has the potential to be good. it comes down to passion i think ultimately. i think passion is the key to making great music.

i don't know if you guys have heard much jane's addiction, but they're one of my all time favorite bands. this song is a little bit harsh, but it definitely has a message...
That's very true. I've never got into Jane's addiction. Just thought of August Burns Red, they're quite good.
 
I don't know if anyone listens to Flyleaf or Anberlin but they're quite good. Depending on how you define religious bands Yellowcard and Paramore could count.

Anberlin - The Unwinding Cable Car
Emotive unstable you're like an unwinding cable car
Listening for voices, but it's the choices that make us who we are
Go your own way, even seasons have changed just burn those new leaves over
So self-absorbed you've seemed to ignore the prayers that have already come about

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la
La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la

Backing away from the problem of pain you never had a home
You've been misguided, you're hiding in shadows for so very long
Don't you believe that you've been deceived that you're no better than...
The hair in your eyes, it never disguised what you're really thinking of

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

This is the correlation of salvation and love
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart
With quiet words I'll lead you in

You're so brilliant, don't soon forget
You're so brilliant, grace marked your heart
You're so brilliant, don't soon forget
You're so brilliant, grace marked your heart
You're so brilliant (This is the correlation)
Don't soon forget (Between salvation and love, don't drop your arms)
You're so brilliant (I'll guard your heart)
Grace marked your heart (With quiet words I'll lead you in and out of the dark)

La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la
(Don't drop your arms)
La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la

This is the correlation of salvation and love (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
With quiet words I'll lead you in

This is the correlation of salvation and love (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
(Don't drop your arms)
Don't drop your arms, I'll guard your heart (La lalalala, la la la, la lala, la)
With quiet words I'll lead you in

Here is your song link on Utube if others want to listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ei1-vWL-t0

A very deep and questioning song. Thanks for posting it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Here is your song link on Utube if others want to listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ei1-vWL-t0

A very deep and questioning song. Thanks for posting it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

You're welcome, you should see them play it live. :)

Anberlin - Cadence
Write down, to remind yourself on how it can be, how it can be
Heartstrings, you're tugging at my heartstrings
Helpless, I have become so helpless to your touch
touch me somehow
Restless, you leave me restless
breathless wait for me

The closer I come to you
the closer I am to finding God
You're a miracle to me
The closer I come to you
the closer I am to finding God
You're a miracle to me

Burning, like Joan of Arc to see you, just to feel you
Cadence, well I'll dance with the dead cause I believe
yes I believe, yes I believe
Stifled, impulsive that You stifled him again, and again and again

And if these are my parting words
Then make this my last request
Hold me here, until I sleep
If I burn, then I burned for you

The closer I come to you
the closer I am to finding God
The closer I come to you
the closer I come to finding God
You're a miracle to me
The closer I come to you
the closer I am to finding God
You're a miracle to me
 
The Chasm

I would note that I really disdain Christian pop music. I've also found, albeit through limited experience, that trying to discuss music itself with a Christian pop fan or even musician is a confounding experience that should only be undertaken (A) while really, really high, and (B) for reasons other than actually talking about music, such as observational psychological research.

At any rate, I find a lot of Christian pop hypocritical. They want the glamour, the cool factor, that comes with being "metal" (Stryper, Bloodgood, &c.), rappers (D.C. Talk), or pop stars (Michael W. Smith). They want to use that glamourous factor to attract young people to the congregation. Yet it's exploitation. "See? Christians can have the rock and roll attitude that's cool and hip and down with the young people, too!" And, really, if these people were like Rev. Scott Sloan, or something, I could sympathize and even encourage. But they're not that smart; they don't learn from the embarrassment of their tumbleweeds moments when everyone just sort of looks at them and wonders what institution yon preacher just escaped.

Thinking back to the South Park episode "Christian Hard Rock", I'm reminded of Stryper when they do the bit about loving Jesus versus being in love with Jesus. This is actually a real song from my youth:

Inside of me there is a lonely place; sometimes I just don't know it's there. But when I'm all alone, that's when I have to face

The part of me that needs someone to be by my side. That's when I call on

You—You make my life complete, You help me through and through, You give me all I need. I'm calling on you.

I can't explain just what You do to me; my love grows stronger everyday. You give me love, You give me company. And when I have to face the rain, You bring sunshine into my life.

You—You make my life complete, You help me through and through, You give me all I need. I'm calling on you.


(Stryper, "Calling On You")

No, really, is that about a girl, or Jesus? When you're fifteen, it sounds like a good song for making out. And then you learn it's a paean to Jesus.

So, yeah, when I saw that South Park episode, I was literally on the floor laughing.

Meanwhile, in the 1970s, the state legislature of California went on this bizarre kick, denouncing pop music for Satanism. One song, for instance, Styx's "Snowblind", was an anti-cocaine song that started with the words, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, the face you show me scares me so. I thought that I could call your bluff, but now the lines are clear enough."

Yeah. Witchcraft. Satanism.

I bring that up because Peter Gabriel was similarly denounced, I believe, for "Shock the Monkey" and the fact that he was a man who wore facepaint onstage. Yes, the man who wrote "Solsbury Hill" and "Here Comes the Flood" was a Satanist:

Climbing up on Solsbury Hill, I could see the city light. Wind was blowing, time stood still; Eagle flew out of the night. He was something to observe. Came in close, I heard a voice. Standing, stretching, every nerve had to listen; had no choice. I did not believe the information. I just had to trust imagination. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Son," he said, "grab your things, I've come to take you home."

To keep in silence I resigned. My friends would think I was a nut. Turning water into wine; open doors would soon be shut. So I went from day to day though my life was in a rut. 'Til I thought of what I'd say, which connection I should cut. I was feeling part of the scenery; I walked right out of the machinery. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Son," he said, "grab your things, I've come to take you home."

Back home.

When illusion spins her net, I'm never where I want to be. And Liberty, she pirouettes when I think that I am free. Watched by empty silhouettes who close their eyes but still can see. No one taught them etiquette; I will show another me. Today I don't need a replacement. I'll tell them what the smile on my face meant. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Hey," I said. "You can keep my things, they've come to take me home.


("Solsbury Hill")

• • •​

When the night shows, the signals grow on radios. All the strange things, they come and go as early warnings. Stranded starfish have no place to hide. Still waiting for the swollen Easter tide. There's no point in direction; we cannot even choose a side.

I took the old track, the hollow shoulder across the waters. On the tall cliffs, they were getting older—sons and daughters. The jaded underworld was riding high. Waves of steel hurled metal at the sky. And as the nails sunk in the cloud, the rain was warm and soaked the crowd.

Lord, here comes the flood. We will say good-bye to flesh and blood. If again, the seas are silent, and any still alive, it'll be those who gave their island to survive. Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry.

When the flood calls, you have no home, you have no walls. In the thunder crash, you're a thousand minds within a flash. Don't be afraid to cry at what you see. The actors gone, there's only you and me. And if we break before the dawn, they'll use up what we used to be.

Lord, here comes the flood. We will say good-bye to flesh and blood. If again, the seas are silent, and any still alive, it'll be those who gave their island to survive. Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry.


("Here Comes the Flood")

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord. Even I, who generally don't believe in deity, and who is specifically estranged from the Biblical God, adore "Solsbury Hill". And, to be certain, simply standing on a concrete post atop the hill, looking back toward Bath and out over the countryside, all I really wanted was for Eagle to come down from the sky as I sang to myself.

But, really, two songs that rely heavily on Christian experience? From a Satanist? Oh, come on. Perhaps it's a bit of jealousy sublimated into protecting the children if it turns out that "regular" musicians write better "Christian" songs.

I mean, even 1980s pop metal. Savatage, for instance, was on the PMRC's hit list because of their Dungeons and Dragons kind of mythical imagery. Yet this is also a band that infused their music with Christian themes. "White Witch", for instance, seems to assert that there is no such thing as good witchcraft—a common 1980s Christian argument for censorship. "Devastation" is about the Apocalypse:

Waiting for disaster, blackness in the night. I roam the world to hear the cry. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide; two-thousand brings the untimely end of all living things.

The Four Horsemen have started their ride. Can you see them in the sky? Glaring down at the ground—smile on their face—as they commence the end of the human race.

Total devastation; prepare yourself for death. This world's insane.

Start your fields afire. Watching them burn, tomorrow will be another world's turn. To win is the end, to be a part of Judgment Day—we should have listened to what Christ had to say.

Total devastation; prepare yourself for death. This world's insane.

What do you say?

We all have our chances of living in peace. Now I'm afraid you're in too deep. what can you do when you're a fool? It all goes this way—you should have listened to what Christ had to say.

Total devastation; prepare yourself to die. This world's insane.

Or there is the entire story of Streets: A Rock Opera, about a drug dealer turned musician turned wasted burnout who finds his spiritual redemption in mercy.

There is the prayer at St. Patrick's:

Hey there, Lord, it's me. I wondered if you're free, or not asleep—this just won't keep. It seems I just don't see why all the things we asked, or prayed would come to pass, have gone unheard, like silent words that slip into hte past.

'Cause, Lord, they're not schemes. Can't you tell dreams? Why do you let them slip by, never even tried?

It isn't you don't hear. There's far too many tears. Or can't you feel? Are we unreal to one who knows no peers?

You say we must pay dues, but still I am confused. I need to walk, and with you talk, instead of to statues.

'Cause, Lord, they're not schemes. Can't you tell dreams? Why do you let them slip by, never even tried?

'Cause you take all the fame. But who'll accept the blame for all the hurt down here on Earth—unnecessary pain. Surely, you musy care. Or are you only air, built in our minds when we're in binds, and never really there?

Can we be tired of you? Is that something we're allowed to do? For even the blind change their views, and it's time we tried something new.

So I've pled my case; I'll now pull my escape. Didn't mean to doubt what it's all about. Seems I forgot my place.

But if you find the time, please change the story line; or give a call, explain it all—I'll even leave the dime.

Or the moment of surrender to God, set to the Welsh hymn "Suo Gon":

I've been waiting, long forgotten—shipwrecked on a distant shore. Am I drifting, no more wanted, floating outward, evermore?

All the dreams that I have harbored in the labyrinth of my soul, gone forever? Not discarded, only sleeping 'til they're whole.

In the graveyard of my heart now sleep the years that I've long sold. For their markers, is their nothing? Only ghosts I cannot hold.

Father hear me: I am tired. Shall I waken in Thy home?

Hold me closer. I am trying. Sweet Lord Jesus, heal my soul.


("Heal My Soul")

Yeah. Satanic, witchy, anti-Christian rock and roll.

At the end of the story, DT comes face to face with a homeless man dying in plain view on the street. And here, he finds his redemption in mercy, comforting a dying man while everyone else is afraid. Two songs are blocked together here on the album. If ever a Broadway musical, this would be the showstopper at the end. And twenty years later, if I absolutely need, I can curl up in the dark, crank the volume, and lick my wounds:

So what can I tell you, if life's the length of this play? Perhaps God gave the answers to those with nothing to say.

But the years are forgiving. If God's forgiving in kind, perhaps we'll all find our answers somewhere in time.

I've been changing, redefining, all the things I thought I knew so long ago, when I was flying through the years that seem so far away.

In the back of a region, in the back of my mind, is where I've piled up the seasons that I've traded for times.

I've been grasping at rainbows, hanging on 'til the end. But the rain is so real, Lord, and the rainbows pretend—the rainbows pretend.

I've been changing, redefining, all the things I thought I knew so long ago, when I was flying through the years that seem so far away.


("Somewhere In Time")

• • •​

So after all those one-night stands, you've ended up with heart in hand; a child alone, on your own, retreating.

Regretful for the things you're not, and all the things you haven't got. Without a home, a heart of stone lies bleeding.

And for all the roads you followed, and for all you did not find, and for all the things you had to leave behind—

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

Your childhood eyes were so intense while bartering your innocence for bits of string, the grown-up wings you needed.

But when you had to add them up, you found that they were not enough to get you in, pay for sins repeated.

And for all the years you borrowed, and for all the tears you cried, and for all the fears you had to keep inside—

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

"I never wanted to know, never wanted to see. I wasted my time, 'til time wasted me. Never wanted to go, always wanted to stay, 'cause the persons I am are the parts that I play. So I plot and I plan, hope, and I scheme to the lure of a night filled with unfinished dreams. And I'm holding on tight to a world gone astray as they charge me for years I can't pay."​

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

Believe.


("Believe")

I mean, so freaking Satanic. That is why "Christian pop" exists. It depends on the myth that rock and roll and pop culture are all degenerate expressions human corruption. It's not so much that only the Christian version is good, but that the proposition demands that there be a Christian version in order to give the young people their rock and roll sound without endangering their lives or souls. Because, you know, if it's not part of the genre, it's just corrupt, godless at best, and the sort of thing that will always lead you to Satan.

I really disdain Christian pop culture. It's probably more of a "dealbreaker" than country music for me. I mean, it's not that I can't be friends with such people, but that there comes a quality threshold below which, and a quantity threshold above which I simply cannot exist in the same space as certain kinds of music.

And besides, the culture is rich with Christian expression in mainstream pop culture. I noticed that even in places about Europe where faith participation is declining, Tanita Tikaram sells more of one record than her entire catalog has sold in the United States. But in this country, "The Redemption Song" is a stoner anthem, and therefore can't possibly be anything but corrupt. Still, though, the overt expressions of joyous faith don't seem to count against her in Europe.

Most of my friends don't know just how devoted to faith Van Morrison is. He did great pop music, and did a pretty good job of separating his faith from his pop identity.

And, yes, I've actually known a couple people for whom the revelation that he is so given to faith actually damaged their ability to enjoy his music. Leave them to it. Whatever. My point being that the supposed chasm between faith and pop culture isn't actually real.

Anyway.

Maybe Tanita's not a good example; the Christian supremacists can certainly find other reasons to steer their children away from her music.

But that's the thing. Christian pop is about supremacism. It is not enough that there is no real chasm between faith and pop. The point is purity; not necessarily of virtue, although that's part of the larger identity, but rather of the marketplace. By creating a purified market while falsely demonizing the competition—and let's be clear, you're not winning record sales that way—one ... well ... creates a purified market.

And I still don't get Christian bookstores, either. Or, rather, perhaps I do, but I doubt my neighbors of faith would appreciate that opinion any more than the rest of this. But ... it's bizarre to witness from without. I mean, yes, I understand the idea of a Christian bookstore that specializes in books important to the faith, but publishers have created diverse subgenres that are all ridiculous except from the point of pure fantasy. Perhaps I should be thankful for the Left Behind novels. Maybe they're a sign that in a hundred years, Christian fiction will be just another dragon or Druid fantasy.

That would be progress.

But a lot of it is almost offensively untenable: come to God, solve the mystery—that sort of thing.

There is no chasm except what they dig for themselves.
 
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I would note that I really disdain Christian pop music. I've also found, albeit through limited experience, that trying to discuss music itself with a Christian pop fan or even musician is a confounding experience that should only be undertaken (A) while really, really high, and (B) for reasons other than actually talking about music, such as observational psychological research.

At any rate, I find a lot of Christian pop hypocritical. They want the glamour, the cool factor, that comes with being "metal" (Stryper, Bloodgood, &c.), rappers (D.C. Talk), or pop stars (Michael W. Smith). They want to use that glamourous factor to attract young people to the congregation. Yet it's exploitation. "See? Christians can have the rock and roll attitude that's cool and hip and down with the young people, too!" And, really, if these people were like Rev. Scott Sloan, or something, I could sympathize and even encourage. But they're not that smart; they don't learn from the embarrassment of their tumbleweeds moments when everyone just sort of looks at them and wonders what institution yon preacher just escaped.

Thinking back to the South Park episode "Faith Plus One", I'm reminded of Stryper when they do the bit about loving Jesus versus being in love with Jesus. This is actually a real song from my youth:

Inside of me there is a lonely place; sometimes I just don't know it's there. But when I'm all alone, that's when I have to face

The part of me that needs someone to be by my side. That's when I call on

You—You make my life complete, You help me through and through, You give me all I need. I'm calling on you.

I can't explain just what You do to me; my love grows stronger everyday. You give me love, You give me company. And when I have to face the rain, You bring sunshine into my life.

You—You make my life complete, You help me through and through, You give me all I need. I'm calling on you.


(Stryper, "Calling On You")

No, really, is that about a girl, or Jesus? When you're fifteen, it sounds like a good song for making out. And then you learn it's a paean to Jesus.

So, yeah, when I saw that South Park episode, I was literally on the floor laughing.

Meanwhile, in the 1970s, the state legislature of California went on this bizarre kick, denouncing pop music for Satanism. One song, for instance, Styx's "Snowblind", was an anti-cocaine song that started with the words, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, the face you show me scares me so. I thought that I could call your bluff, but now the lines are clear enough."

Yeah. Witchcraft. Satanism.

I bring that up because Peter Gabriel was similarly denounced, I believe, for "Shock the Monkey" and the fact that he was a man who wore facepaint onstage. Yes, the man who wrote "Solsbury Hill" and "Here Comes the Flood" was a Satanist:

Climbing up on Solsbury Hill, I could see the city light. Wind was blowing, time stood still; Eagle flew out of the night. He was something to observe. Came in close, I heard a voice. Standing, stretching, every nerve had to listen; had no choice. I did not believe the information. I just had to trust imagination. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Son," he said, "grab your things, I've come to take you home."

To keep in silence I resigned. My friends would think I was a nut. Turning water into wine; open doors would soon be shut. So I went from day to day though my life was in a rut. 'Til I thought of what I'd say, which connection I should cut. I was feeling part of the scenery; I walked right out of the machinery. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Son," he said, "grab your things, I've come to take you home."

Back home.

When illusion spins her net, I'm never where I want to be. And Liberty, she pirouettes when I think that I am free. Watched by empty silhouettes who close their eyes but still can see. No one taught them etiquette; I will show another me. Today I don't need a replacement. I'll tell them what the smile on my face meant. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Hey," I said. "You can keep my things, they've come to take me home.


("Solsbury Hill")

• • •​

When the night shows, the signals grow on radios. All the strange things, they come and go as early warnings. Stranded starfish have no place to hide. Still waiting for the swollen Easter tide. There's no point in direction; we cannot even choose a side.

I took the old track, the hollow shoulder across the waters. On the tall cliffs, they were getting older—sons and daughters. The jaded underworld was riding high. Waves of steel hurled metal at the sky. And as the nails sunk in the cloud, the rain was warm and soaked the crowd.

Lord, here comes the flood. We will say good-bye to flesh and blood. If again, the seas are silent, and any still alive, it'll be those who gave their island to survive. Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry.

When the flood calls, you have no home, you have no walls. In the thunder crash, you're a thousand minds within a flash. Don't be afraid to cry at what you see. The actors gone, there's only you and me. And if we break before the dawn, they'll use up what we used to be.

Lord, here comes the flood. We will say good-bye to flesh and blood. If again, the seas are silent, and any still alive, it'll be those who gave their island to survive. Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry.


("Here Comes the Flood")

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord. Even I, who generally don't believe in deity, and who is specifically estranged from the Biblical God, adore "Solsbury Hill". And, to be certain, simply standing on a concrete post atop the hill, looking back toward Bath and out over the countryside, all I really wanted was for Eagle to come down from the sky as I sang to myself.

But, really, two songs that rely heavily on Christian experience? From a Satanist? Oh, come on. Perhaps it's a bit of jealousy sublimated into protecting the children if it turns out that "regular" musicians write better "Christian" songs.

I mean, even 1980s pop metal. Savatage, for instance, was on the PMRC's hit list because of their Dungeons and Dragons kind of mythical imagery. Yet this is also a band that infused their music with Christian themes. "White Witch", for instance, seems to assert that there is no such thing as good witchcraft—a common 1980s Christian argument for censorship. "Devastation" is about the Apocalypse:

Waiting for disaster, blackness in the night. I roam the world to hear the cry. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide; two-thousand brings the untimely end of all living things.

The Four Horsemen have started their ride. Can you see them in the sky? Glaring down at the ground—smile on their face—as they commence the end of the human race.

Total devastation; prepare yourself for death. This world's insane.

Start your fields afire. Watching them burn, tomorrow will be another world's turn. To win is the end, to be a part of Judgment Day—we should have listened to what Christ had to say.

Total devastation; prepare yourself for death. This world's insane.

What do you say?

We all have our chances of living in peace. Now I'm afraid you're in too deep. what can you do when you're a fool? It all goes this way—you should have listened to what Christ had to say.

Total devastation; prepare yourself to die. This world's insane.

Or there is the entire story of Streets: A Rock Opera, about a drug dealer turned musician turned wasted burnout who finds his spiritual redemption in mercy.

There is the prayer at St. Patrick's:

Hey there, Lord, it's me. I wondered if you're free, or not asleep—this just won't keep. It seems I just don't see why all the things we asked, or prayed would come to pass, have gone unheard, like silent words that slip into hte past.

'Cause, Lord, they're not schemes. Can't you tell dreams? Why do you let them slip by, never even tried?

It isn't you don't hear. There's far too many tears. Or can't you feel? Are we unreal to one who knows no peers?

You say we must pay dues, but still I am confused. I need to walk, and with you talk, instead of to statues.

'Cause, Lord, they're not schemes. Can't you tell dreams? Why do you let them slip by, never even tried?

'Cause you take all the fame. But who'll accept the blame for all the hurt down here on Earth—unnecessary pain. Surely, you musy care. Or are you only air, built in our minds when we're in binds, and never really there?

Can we be tired of you? Is that something we're allowed to do? For even the blind change their views, and it's time we tried something new.

So I've pled my case; I'll now pull my escape. Didn't mean to doubt what it's all about. Seems I forgot my place.

But if you find the time, please change the story line; or give a call, explain it all—I'll even leave the dime.

Or the moment of surrender to God, set to the Welsh hymn "Suo Gon":

I've been waiting, long forgotten—shipwrecked on a distant shore. Am I drifting, no more wanted, floating outward, evermore?

All the dreams that I have harbored in the labyrinth of my soul, gone forever? Not discarded, only sleeping 'til they're whole.

In the graveyard of my heart now sleep the years that I've long sold. For their markers, is their nothing? Only ghosts I cannot hold.

Father hear me: I am tired. Shall I waken in Thy home?

Hold me closer. I am trying. Sweet Lord Jesus, heal my soul.


("Heal My Soul")

Yeah. Satanic, witchy, anti-Christian rock and roll.

At the end of the story, DT comes face to face with a homeless man dying in plain view on the street. And here, he finds his redemption in mercy, comforting a dying man while everyone else is afraid. Two songs are blocked together here on the album. If ever a Broadway musical, this would be the showstopper at the end. And twenty years later, if I absolutely need, I can curl up in the dark, crank the volume, and lick my wounds:

So what can I tell you, if life's the length of this play? Perhaps God gave the answers to those with nothing to say.

But the years are forgiving. If God's forgiving in kind, perhaps we'll all find our answers somewhere in time.

I've been changing, redefining, all the things I thought I knew so long ago, when I was flying through the years that seem so far away.

In the back of a region, in the back of my mind, is where I've piled up the seasons that I've traded for times.

I've been grasping at rainbows, hanging on 'til the end.
But the rain is so real, Lord, and the rainbows pretend. And the rainbows pretend.

I've been changing, redefining, all the things I thought I knew so long ago, when I was flying through the years that seem so far away.


("Somewhere In Time")

• • •​

So after all those one-night stands, you've ended up with heart in hand; a child alone, on your own, retreating.

Regretful for the things you're not, and all the things you haven't got. Without a home, a heart of stone lies bleeding.

And for all the roads you followed, and for all you did not find, and for all the things you had to leave behind—

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

Your childhood eyes were so intense while bartering your innocence for bits of string, the grown-up wings you needed.

But when you had to add them up, you found that they were not enough to get you in, pay for sins repeated.

And for all the years you borrowed, and for all the tears you cried, and for all the fears you had to keep inside—

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

"I never wanted to know, never wanted to see. I wasted my time, 'til time wasted me. Never wanted to go, always wanted to stay, 'cause the persons I am are the parts that I play. So I plot and I plan, hope, and I scheme to the lure of a night filled with unfinished dreams. And I'm holding on tight to a world gone astray as they charge me for years I can't pay."​

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

Believe.


("Believe")

I mean, so freaking Satanic. That is why "Christian pop" exists. It depends on the myth that rock and roll and pop culture are all degenerate expressions human corruption. It's not so much that only the Christian version is good, but that the proposition demands that there be a Christian version in order to give the young people their rock and roll sound without endangering their lives or souls. Because, you know, if it's not part of the genre, it's just corrupt, godless at best, and the sort of thing that will always lead you to Satan.

I really disdain Christian pop culture. It's probably more of a "dealbreaker" than country music for me. I mean, it's not that I can't be friends with such people, but that there comes a quality threshold below which, and a quantity threshold above which I simply cannot exist in the same space as certain kinds of music.

And besides, the culture is rich with Christian expression in mainstream pop culture. I noticed that even in places about Europe where faith participation is declining, Tanita Tikaram sells more of one record than her entire catalog has sold in the United States. But in this country, "The Redemption Song" is a stoner anthem, and therefore can't possibly be anything but corrupt. Still, though, the overt expressions of joyous faith don't seem to count against her in Europe.

Most of my friends don't know just how devoted to faith Van Morrison is. He did great pop music, and did a pretty good job of separating his faith from his pop identity.

And, yes, I've actually known a couple people for whom the revelation that he is so given to faith actually damaged their ability to enjoy his music. Leave them to it. Whatever. My point being that the supposed chasm between faith and pop culture isn't actually real.

Anyway.

Maybe Tanita's not a good example; the Christian supremacists can certainly find other reasons to steer their children away from her music.

But that's the thing. Christian pop is about supremacism. It is not enough that there is no real chasm between faith and pop. The point is purity; not necessarily of virtue, although that's part of the larger identity, but rather of the marketplace. By creating a purified market while falsely demonizing the competition—and let's be clear, you're not winning record sales that way—one ... well ... creates a purified market.

And I still don't get Christian bookstores, either. Or, rather, perhaps I do, but I doubt my neighbors of faith would appreciate that opinion any more than the rest of this. But ... it's bizarre to witness from without. I mean, yes, I understand the idea of a Christian bookstore that specializes in books important to the faith, but publishers have created diverse subgenres that are all ridiculous except from the point of pure fantasy. Perhaps I should be thankful for the Left Behind novels. Maybe they're a sign that in a hundred years, Christian fiction will be just another dragon or Druid fantasy.

That would be progress.

But a lot of it is almost offensively untenable: come to God, solve the mystery—that sort of thing.

There is no chasm except what they dig for themselves.

it seems like religion can be about ownership in a lot of ways. they wouldn't want god out there floating around for just anyone to tap into for free. you can't have god without religion putting a denominational stamp of approval on it and selling it to you.

i'm intrigued about the rock opera.
 
I would note that I really disdain Christian pop music. I've also found, albeit through limited experience, that trying to discuss music itself with a Christian pop fan or even musician is a confounding experience that should only be undertaken (A) while really, really high, and (B) for reasons other than actually talking about music, such as observational psychological research.

At any rate, I find a lot of Christian pop hypocritical. They want the glamour, the cool factor, that comes with being "metal" (Stryper, Bloodgood, &c.), rappers (D.C. Talk), or pop stars (Michael W. Smith). They want to use that glamourous factor to attract young people to the congregation. Yet it's exploitation. "See? Christians can have the rock and roll attitude that's cool and hip and down with the young people, too!" And, really, if these people were like Rev. Scott Sloan, or something, I could sympathize and even encourage. But they're not that smart; they don't learn from the embarrassment of their tumbleweeds moments when everyone just sort of looks at them and wonders what institution yon preacher just escaped.

Thinking back to the South Park episode "Faith Plus One", I'm reminded of Stryper when they do the bit about loving Jesus versus being in love with Jesus. This is actually a real song from my youth:

Inside of me there is a lonely place; sometimes I just don't know it's there. But when I'm all alone, that's when I have to face

The part of me that needs someone to be by my side. That's when I call on

You—You make my life complete, You help me through and through, You give me all I need. I'm calling on you.

I can't explain just what You do to me; my love grows stronger everyday. You give me love, You give me company. And when I have to face the rain, You bring sunshine into my life.

You—You make my life complete, You help me through and through, You give me all I need. I'm calling on you.


(Stryper, "Calling On You")

No, really, is that about a girl, or Jesus? When you're fifteen, it sounds like a good song for making out. And then you learn it's a paean to Jesus.

So, yeah, when I saw that South Park episode, I was literally on the floor laughing.

Meanwhile, in the 1970s, the state legislature of California went on this bizarre kick, denouncing pop music for Satanism. One song, for instance, Styx's "Snowblind", was an anti-cocaine song that started with the words, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, the face you show me scares me so. I thought that I could call your bluff, but now the lines are clear enough."

Yeah. Witchcraft. Satanism.

I bring that up because Peter Gabriel was similarly denounced, I believe, for "Shock the Monkey" and the fact that he was a man who wore facepaint onstage. Yes, the man who wrote "Solsbury Hill" and "Here Comes the Flood" was a Satanist:

Climbing up on Solsbury Hill, I could see the city light. Wind was blowing, time stood still; Eagle flew out of the night. He was something to observe. Came in close, I heard a voice. Standing, stretching, every nerve had to listen; had no choice. I did not believe the information. I just had to trust imagination. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Son," he said, "grab your things, I've come to take you home."

To keep in silence I resigned. My friends would think I was a nut. Turning water into wine; open doors would soon be shut. So I went from day to day though my life was in a rut. 'Til I thought of what I'd say, which connection I should cut. I was feeling part of the scenery; I walked right out of the machinery. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Son," he said, "grab your things, I've come to take you home."

Back home.

When illusion spins her net, I'm never where I want to be. And Liberty, she pirouettes when I think that I am free. Watched by empty silhouettes who close their eyes but still can see. No one taught them etiquette; I will show another me. Today I don't need a replacement. I'll tell them what the smile on my face meant. My heart going, "Boom, boom, boom!"

"Hey," I said. "You can keep my things, they've come to take me home.


("Solsbury Hill")

• • •​

When the night shows, the signals grow on radios. All the strange things, they come and go as early warnings. Stranded starfish have no place to hide. Still waiting for the swollen Easter tide. There's no point in direction; we cannot even choose a side.

I took the old track, the hollow shoulder across the waters. On the tall cliffs, they were getting older—sons and daughters. The jaded underworld was riding high. Waves of steel hurled metal at the sky. And as the nails sunk in the cloud, the rain was warm and soaked the crowd.

Lord, here comes the flood. We will say good-bye to flesh and blood. If again, the seas are silent, and any still alive, it'll be those who gave their island to survive. Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry.

When the flood calls, you have no home, you have no walls. In the thunder crash, you're a thousand minds within a flash. Don't be afraid to cry at what you see. The actors gone, there's only you and me. And if we break before the dawn, they'll use up what we used to be.

Lord, here comes the flood. We will say good-bye to flesh and blood. If again, the seas are silent, and any still alive, it'll be those who gave their island to survive. Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry.


("Here Comes the Flood")

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord. Even I, who generally don't believe in deity, and who is specifically estranged from the Biblical God, adore "Solsbury Hill". And, to be certain, simply standing on a concrete post atop the hill, looking back toward Bath and out over the countryside, all I really wanted was for Eagle to come down from the sky as I sang to myself.

But, really, two songs that rely heavily on Christian experience? From a Satanist? Oh, come on. Perhaps it's a bit of jealousy sublimated into protecting the children if it turns out that "regular" musicians write better "Christian" songs.

I mean, even 1980s pop metal. Savatage, for instance, was on the PMRC's hit list because of their Dungeons and Dragons kind of mythical imagery. Yet this is also a band that infused their music with Christian themes. "White Witch", for instance, seems to assert that there is no such thing as good witchcraft—a common 1980s Christian argument for censorship. "Devastation" is about the Apocalypse:

Waiting for disaster, blackness in the night. I roam the world to hear the cry. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide; two-thousand brings the untimely end of all living things.

The Four Horsemen have started their ride. Can you see them in the sky? Glaring down at the ground—smile on their face—as they commence the end of the human race.

Total devastation; prepare yourself for death. This world's insane.

Start your fields afire. Watching them burn, tomorrow will be another world's turn. To win is the end, to be a part of Judgment Day—we should have listened to what Christ had to say.

Total devastation; prepare yourself for death. This world's insane.

What do you say?

We all have our chances of living in peace. Now I'm afraid you're in too deep. what can you do when you're a fool? It all goes this way—you should have listened to what Christ had to say.

Total devastation; prepare yourself to die. This world's insane.

Or there is the entire story of Streets: A Rock Opera, about a drug dealer turned musician turned wasted burnout who finds his spiritual redemption in mercy.

There is the prayer at St. Patrick's:

Hey there, Lord, it's me. I wondered if you're free, or not asleep—this just won't keep. It seems I just don't see why all the things we asked, or prayed would come to pass, have gone unheard, like silent words that slip into hte past.

'Cause, Lord, they're not schemes. Can't you tell dreams? Why do you let them slip by, never even tried?

It isn't you don't hear. There's far too many tears. Or can't you feel? Are we unreal to one who knows no peers?

You say we must pay dues, but still I am confused. I need to walk, and with you talk, instead of to statues.

'Cause, Lord, they're not schemes. Can't you tell dreams? Why do you let them slip by, never even tried?

'Cause you take all the fame. But who'll accept the blame for all the hurt down here on Earth—unnecessary pain. Surely, you musy care. Or are you only air, built in our minds when we're in binds, and never really there?

Can we be tired of you? Is that something we're allowed to do? For even the blind change their views, and it's time we tried something new.

So I've pled my case; I'll now pull my escape. Didn't mean to doubt what it's all about. Seems I forgot my place.

But if you find the time, please change the story line; or give a call, explain it all—I'll even leave the dime.

Or the moment of surrender to God, set to the Welsh hymn "Suo Gon":

I've been waiting, long forgotten—shipwrecked on a distant shore. Am I drifting, no more wanted, floating outward, evermore?

All the dreams that I have harbored in the labyrinth of my soul, gone forever? Not discarded, only sleeping 'til they're whole.

In the graveyard of my heart now sleep the years that I've long sold. For their markers, is their nothing? Only ghosts I cannot hold.

Father hear me: I am tired. Shall I waken in Thy home?

Hold me closer. I am trying. Sweet Lord Jesus, heal my soul.


("Heal My Soul")

Yeah. Satanic, witchy, anti-Christian rock and roll.

At the end of the story, DT comes face to face with a homeless man dying in plain view on the street. And here, he finds his redemption in mercy, comforting a dying man while everyone else is afraid. Two songs are blocked together here on the album. If ever a Broadway musical, this would be the showstopper at the end. And twenty years later, if I absolutely need, I can curl up in the dark, crank the volume, and lick my wounds:

So what can I tell you, if life's the length of this play? Perhaps God gave the answers to those with nothing to say.

But the years are forgiving. If God's forgiving in kind, perhaps we'll all find our answers somewhere in time.

I've been changing, redefining, all the things I thought I knew so long ago, when I was flying through the years that seem so far away.

In the back of a region, in the back of my mind, is where I've piled up the seasons that I've traded for times.

I've been grasping at rainbows, hanging on 'til the end.
But the rain is so real, Lord, and the rainbows pretend. And the rainbows pretend.

I've been changing, redefining, all the things I thought I knew so long ago, when I was flying through the years that seem so far away.


("Somewhere In Time")

• • •​

So after all those one-night stands, you've ended up with heart in hand; a child alone, on your own, retreating.

Regretful for the things you're not, and all the things you haven't got. Without a home, a heart of stone lies bleeding.

And for all the roads you followed, and for all you did not find, and for all the things you had to leave behind—

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

Your childhood eyes were so intense while bartering your innocence for bits of string, the grown-up wings you needed.

But when you had to add them up, you found that they were not enough to get you in, pay for sins repeated.

And for all the years you borrowed, and for all the tears you cried, and for all the fears you had to keep inside—

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

"I never wanted to know, never wanted to see. I wasted my time, 'til time wasted me. Never wanted to go, always wanted to stay, 'cause the persons I am are the parts that I play. So I plot and I plan, hope, and I scheme to the lure of a night filled with unfinished dreams. And I'm holding on tight to a world gone astray as they charge me for years I can't pay."​

I am the Way, I am the Light. I am the Dark inside the Night. I hear your hopes. I feel your dreams. And in the dark, I hear your screams. Don't turn away, just take my hand; and when you make your final stand, I'll be right there, I'll never leave. All I ask of you is Believe.

Believe.


("Believe")

I mean, so freaking Satanic. That is why "Christian pop" exists. It depends on the myth that rock and roll and pop culture are all degenerate expressions human corruption. It's not so much that only the Christian version is good, but that the proposition demands that there be a Christian version in order to give the young people their rock and roll sound without endangering their lives or souls. Because, you know, if it's not part of the genre, it's just corrupt, godless at best, and the sort of thing that will always lead you to Satan.

I really disdain Christian pop culture. It's probably more of a "dealbreaker" than country music for me. I mean, it's not that I can't be friends with such people, but that there comes a quality threshold below which, and a quantity threshold above which I simply cannot exist in the same space as certain kinds of music.

And besides, the culture is rich with Christian expression in mainstream pop culture. I noticed that even in places about Europe where faith participation is declining, Tanita Tikaram sells more of one record than her entire catalog has sold in the United States. But in this country, "The Redemption Song" is a stoner anthem, and therefore can't possibly be anything but corrupt. Still, though, the overt expressions of joyous faith don't seem to count against her in Europe.

Most of my friends don't know just how devoted to faith Van Morrison is. He did great pop music, and did a pretty good job of separating his faith from his pop identity.

And, yes, I've actually known a couple people for whom the revelation that he is so given to faith actually damaged their ability to enjoy his music. Leave them to it. Whatever. My point being that the supposed chasm between faith and pop culture isn't actually real.

Anyway.

Maybe Tanita's not a good example; the Christian supremacists can certainly find other reasons to steer their children away from her music.

But that's the thing. Christian pop is about supremacism. It is not enough that there is no real chasm between faith and pop. The point is purity; not necessarily of virtue, although that's part of the larger identity, but rather of the marketplace. By creating a purified market while falsely demonizing the competition—and let's be clear, you're not winning record sales that way—one ... well ... creates a purified market.

And I still don't get Christian bookstores, either. Or, rather, perhaps I do, but I doubt my neighbors of faith would appreciate that opinion any more than the rest of this. But ... it's bizarre to witness from without. I mean, yes, I understand the idea of a Christian bookstore that specializes in books important to the faith, but publishers have created diverse subgenres that are all ridiculous except from the point of pure fantasy. Perhaps I should be thankful for the Left Behind novels. Maybe they're a sign that in a hundred years, Christian fiction will be just another dragon or Druid fantasy.

That would be progress.

But a lot of it is almost offensively untenable: come to God, solve the mystery—that sort of thing.

There is no chasm except what they dig for themselves.

Ummm who cares about PMRC. Your post is the first time i have even heard about the organization.

So what if some organization called something satanic? Why not copy your above post and send it to them?

What relevance does it have hear?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
I always liked Peter Gabriel.

I listened to His song again: Went to Utube and head it. Looking at the video it is clear it has Christian underlying visuals. The man picking the crop can be seen as Jesus and the rapture while the end scene is clearly a depiction of the bride of Christ consisting of the crop entering into the Eternal Light to be with Jesus.

Have a look at it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0ylSUsel3w&feature=related

Solsbury Hill by Peter Gabrial
Climbing up on Solsbury Hill
I could see the city light

Wind was blowing, time stood still
Eagle flew out of the night

He was something to observe
Came in close I heard a voice

Standing stretching every nerve
I had to listen had no choice

I did not believe the information
Just had to trust imagination
My heart going boom-boom-boom
Son, he said, grab your things I've come to take you home
Eh, don't quit

( This seems to be a reference either to Jesus coming to take Him into eternity by either death or the rapture, The depiction of the Eagle might be problematic to some Christians because some see it as representing a phoenix but i got this from a Christian web site that lists Christian symbols

"Because it soars upward, the eagle is a symbol of the resurrection or ascension of Christ. By extension, the eagle symbolizes baptised Christians, who have symbolically died and risen with Christ. The eagle is also the symbol of John the Evangelist, because of his lofty and "soaring" gospel (it is much more theological in nature than the other three)."

The lyrics of the song continues:


To keep in silence I resigned
My friends would think I was a nut

Understandable many who first come to believe Jesus keep it quite out of fear of ridicule from others.

Turning water into wine
Open doors would soon be shut

Turning water into wine.. Can the writer drop a biiger hint as to what the songs about. And "Open doors would soon be shut" Is saying the the Open Door age of Grace when people can accept the Messiah Jesus and be saved will soon be shut. Prophetic and again clearly pointing to Jesus.

So I went from day to day
Oh, my life was in a rut

Yeah i can identify with this. Once you come to believe Jesus and understand things this world really pisses you off and you do get into a rut, Joyed by the Word of God but depressed about the vanity of this world.

'Til I thought of what I'd say
Which connection I should cut

Ahhh Yes this is taking about the moment when the disparity between the church/society/culture you live in and the Words of Jesus weigh so heavily upon your conscience that you have to start cutting ties to those things that are in conflict with your conscience to Jesus.

I was feeling part of the scenery
I'd walk right out of the machinery
My heart going boom-boom-boom
Hey, he said, grab your things I've come to take you home
Eh, back home


Well the machinery is the satanic world state. Walking right out of it is walking out of it in spirit, no longer giving it any honour or allegiance.


When illusion spin her net
I'm never where I want to be

And liberty, she'd pirhouette
When I think that I am free

Watched by empty silhouettes
Who close their eyes but still can see

No one taught them etiquette
I will show another me

Not sure what He is referring to hear?




I like the underbelly of sarcasim towards the machinery in the following Song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0FBi5Rv1ho&feature=BF&list=MLGxdCwVVULXdiDpzHW6GtZKLar9vg_uWI&index=4

Ha ha ha


Here is another one Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush Don't give up.

On the face of it a song about the struggle of a refugee but i can see another song in the background, Where Pater Gabraiel is an end times follower of Jesus and Kate Bush is the Holy Spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiCRZLr9oRw&feature=BF&list=PL66C4EFF0DC632750&index=32

Sweet and sad tear jerking song.




All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Last edited:
Ok hear is an old one from the past. This is a song that i loved so much when i was a young teen. Later i remembered it when i heard it played in a shop just a few years ago. It lifted me so high :D it was just a special little song sent to me to make my day.

This is the first time i have seen the band and video of it. Lucky i didn't see it then cause the way these guys dress is so plastic 80's style i would have rejected the song because of the image.

Anyway here it is

Simple Minds with Alive and Kicking

You turn me on, you lift me up
And like the sweetest cup I'd share with you
You lift me up, don't you ever stop, I'm here with you
Now it's all or nothing
'Cause you say you'll follow through
You follow me, and I, I, I follow you.

What you gonna do when things go wrong?
What you gonna do when it all cracks up?
What you gonna do when the Love burns down?
What you gonna do when the flames go up?
Who is gonna come and turn the tide?
What's it gonna take to make a dream survive?
Who's got the touch to calm the storm inside?
Who's gonna save you?

Alive and Kicking
Stay until your love is, Alive and Kicking
Stay until your love is, until your love is, Alive

Oh you lift me up to the crucial top, so I can see
Oh you lead me on, till the feelings come
And the lights that shine on
But if that don't mean nothing
Like if someday it should fall through
You'll take me home where the magic's from
And I'll be with you


What you gonna do when things go wrong?
What you gonna do when it all cracks up?
What you gonna do when the Love burns down?
What you gonna do when the flames go up?
Who is gonna come and turn the tide?
What's it gonna take to make a dream survive?
Who's got the touch to calm the storm inside?
Don't say goodbye
Don't say goodbye
In the final seconds who's gonna save you?


Oh, Alive and Kicking
Stay until your love is, love is, Alive and Kicking
Oh, Alive and Kicking
Stay until your love is, love is, Alive and Kicking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljIQo1OHkTI

Ohh Yeah!!!! I had to get up and dance and sing. The Love of the Truth is Alive and Kicking for Eternity. Take me Home Jesus :D


All Praise The Ancient of Days
 
Faith + 1

Adstar said:

So what if some organization called something satanic? Why not copy your above post and send it to them?

What relevance does it have hear?

It's part of the myth put forward to distort reality in order to encourage a supremacist marketplace that also happens to produce largely bad music.

The thing is that the Strypers and DC Talks and whoever is a "Christian" band these days are extraneous. They're making faith into a slapstick parody. It's kind of like a farm league for musicians. If you're not "it" enough to survive in the regular pop market, you can always appeal to what Eric Cartman described as a built-in audience. But that audience only really grows by promoting a fearful myth.

Think of it this way: When organizations like the California legislature or the PMRC—which is responsible for those black-and-white parental advisory stickers on albums that in many places have enforced age restrictions on music purchases—denounce albums or musicians, it has an effect among the people who fret about such things.

Now think about it for a moment: An anti-cocaine song is Satanic? Really? One result of such institutional assertions is that many parents would forbid their children from listening to that band, so that the kids would never hear that testimony that coke is downright evil.

Or Peter Gabriel? Seriously? And so kids are forbidden from listening to his albums, because the concerned parents hear that he's Satanic. As a non-Christian, sincere presentation of Christian myth can still offer me pathos, even to the point of catharsis. I actually think those songs can strengthen faith if a Christian gives them the opportunity. Yet many won't ever hear it because Peter Gabriel is apparently Satanic. Because he sings confusing, metaphorical songs about defeating jealousy—

petergabrielfacepaint.jpg

—and wore facepaint in 1983.

The effect is that a lot of people who could do wonderful things with those ideas, redefining songs like "Solsbury Hill" and "Here Comes the Flood"—which are actually about leaving Genesis and a weird dream, respectively—according to their relationship to the symbols, will be denied or choose to avoid the music for the sake of nearly inexplicable institutional stupidity.

And it's the reason "Christian pop" exists.
 
It's part of the myth put forward to distort reality in order to encourage a supremacist marketplace that also happens to produce largely bad music.

The thing is that the Strypers and DC Talks and whoever is a "Christian" band these days are extraneous. They're making faith into a slapstick parody. It's kind of like a farm league for musicians. If you're not "it" enough to survive in the regular pop market, you can always appeal to what Eric Cartman described as a built-in audience. But that audience only really grows by promoting a fearful myth.

Think of it this way: When organizations like the California legislature or the PMRC—which is responsible for those black-and-white parental advisory stickers on albums that in many places have enforced age restrictions on music purchases—denounce albums or musicians, it has an effect among the people who fret about such things.

Now think about it for a moment: An anti-cocaine song is Satanic? Really? One result of such institutional assertions is that many parents would forbid their children from listening to that band, so that the kids would never hear that testimony that coke is downright evil.

Or Peter Gabriel? Seriously? And so kids are forbidden from listening to his albums, because the concerned parents hear that he's Satanic. As a non-Christian, sincere presentation of Christian myth can still offer me pathos, even to the point of catharsis. I actually think those songs can strengthen faith if a Christian gives them the opportunity. Yet many won't ever hear it because Peter Gabriel is apparently Satanic. Because he sings confusing, metaphorical songs about defeating jealousy—

petergabrielfacepaint.jpg

—and wore facepaint in 1983.

The effect is that a lot of people who could do wonderful things with those ideas, redefining songs like "Solsbury Hill" and "Here Comes the Flood"—which are actually about leaving Genesis and a weird dream, respectively—according to their relationship to the symbols, will be denied or choose to avoid the music for the sake of nearly inexplicable institutional stupidity.

And it's the reason "Christian pop" exists.

Well ok i am not necessarily arguing against your stance, as i posted above i like some Peter Gabriel songs in a faith way. So i would disagree with the stance of that advice organization PMRC.

You put a ton of work into your original post, and i must say i was impressed, just seems that you wasted your effort here because of such a small audience. But again thanks for posting it.

I live in Australia and i have never seen any organization here putting stickers on music. There is one that gives advisories on Video games but no one listens to them anyway. Australians seem to be a more laid back people in general not given over to hype about such things.

I have listened to a lot of music and i like a fairly wide range of music types. But i have always loved songs that have meaning buried in their words. I like listening to a song and then Whamo the hidden meaning jumps out at you And you realise you been listening to music and never got the song, or thought the song did not have any deeper meaning but then the meaning is opened for you and it feels so good.

I think every song i have posted here on this thread has been from "commercial groups" I don't think any of them are an identified part of the "organised christian music movement" I have heard some of those groups and only one or two especially emotive songs have ever touched me. One about abused youth and another about the walls we build around us for protection that also keep love out. But all the others their message is far to in your face, to obvious, many of them have the same format. I like songs that are subtle, that almost hide the message. Where the message creeps up behind you and taps you on the shoulder :eek: :D


All Praise The Ancient of Days
 
Brief Recap

Adstar said:

I live in Australia and i have never seen any organization here putting stickers on music.

Ah, just a brief recap, then: A Senator's wife bought her young daughter a music album without knowing what was on it. Upon learning what she'd done, the Senator's wife was horrified, because, well, tht's how prudes respond when they hear their seven year-old daughter singing, "Thank you for the funky time. Call me up when you want to grind."

So the Senator's wife got together with nine or ten other Senate wives and the wife of the Secretary of the Treasury and started an organization—the Parental Music Resource Center—that was ostensibly about "educating parents" regarding what their children were listening to. On its face, it doesn't sound so bad. Apathy was the reason the Senator's wife bought her kid that album; Tipper Gore had no idea what was on it, and it hadn't occurred to her to care. Obviously, someone needs to tell parents what's going on, so they can make responsible, informed child-rearing decisions.

But that was a lie. The PMRC was ostensibly about educating parents. However, it advocated censorship based on twentieth-century Judeo-Christian moral standards.

One result of its efforts was a little black and white sticker—


The PMRC's standardized label, ca. 2000.

—that was supposed to advise parents. And then various jurisdictions, under pressure from the PMRC and its supporters, began passing laws forbidding the sale of albums bearing the sticker to persons under the age of eighteen.

One day. That's the difference. One day is all the difference in the world to these people, marking whether or not you're intelligent enough to listen to ... GnR's Appetite for Destruction, King Diamond's Abigail, The Beastie Boys' Check Your Head, &c.

The situation brought a definitive response from the musicians. You might have heard, before, of JAMPAC, a musicians' lobby group formed in the wake of Washngton State's 1992 "Erotic Music Law", which would have fined or jailed people for selling sticker-marked music to minors. The law only lasted four months before a judge declared it unconstitutional.

And not only was "one day" all the difference in the world, it just seems strange that one could be, say, seventeen in the summer of 1992, and wake up one day to find out that the nice chick at the record store could go to jail if, today, she sold you the album you bought yesterday.

In 1990, when the black-and-white design was becoming common—sometimes the warning labels were even printed into the cover art—it came about that someone at my school said it didn't make any difference. This happened to be in either my psych or government class, and the result was that a friend and I did a paper on trying to by cassettes. I don't even know if Disc Jockey or Camelot still exist, but after being refused by clerks, at age seventeen, while trying to buy a copy of King Diamond's Abigail with a sticker on it, I've never again set foot inside either chain.

That's the power of the PMRC.

Perhaps my favorite definitive response, though, came from the oft-maligned Anthrax, which summed up their sentiments about the whole movement and focused them all on Tipper Gore in a song called "Startin' Up A Posse":

You say our records are offensive (you're a douche, you're a douche); our messages ain't right (you're a douche, you're a douche). You say you're going to label records (you're a douche, you're a douche) so our kids can grow up right. You fucking whore (let them decide). That's all you are.

(excerpt)

The song has the best backing lyrics ever. "Fascist scum, fascist scum", "Motherfucker, motherfuck", or my personal favorite, "Cunty, cunty, cunty cunt!"

The problem with picking a fight with musicians when you're an uncreative philistine like Tipper Gore is that the musicians will always win the war.

For many, the stickers became badges of pride that actually increased overall record sales.

And in the 1990s, Broward County, Florida, prosecuted Charles Freeman for selling 2 Live Crew's As Nasty As They Want to Be, based on a ruling by a federal judge. The trial included testimony from 2 Live Crew and Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., in Freeman's defense, and in 1992, the Eleventh Circuit overturned Gonzalez's ruling; the Supreme Court refused the county's appeal.

As Nasty As They Wanna Be went on, because of the controversy, to become 2 Live's most successful album.

And all that for the sake of organizations like the PMRC and American Family Association, who apparently really aren't about censorship. Their efforts promote the myth (lie) that encourages the whole Christian pop movement, and have had enough influence to bring a man before the law and threaten him with incarceration because some music happened to offend Christian moral-purity standards.

It was an interesting time that saw a revival some years later when some conservative politicians and Christian activists worked to suppress Marilyn Manson. Ozzfest '97 had to change venues because the New Jersey Sports and Exhibition Authority bowed to religious pressure to forbid Marilyn Manson from playing. Public pressure forced the cancellation of a concert in South Carolina. A Canadian venue owner even reneged on a contract for a show in Toronto in July, 1997. A Protland, Oregon concert was cancelled after activist pressure compelled an insurance companies to refuse to underwrite the show. South Carolina and Utah passed specific laws to allow state-operated venues to refuse gigs from bands deemed offensive to religious morals. In Florida, some schools even threatened to expel students for ... attending a Marilyn Manson concert.

Since then, we've been too caught up, as a culture, with queers and Mohammadens to worry a whole lot about the music.

We'll hear from the censors again. Probably won't be long.
____________________

Notes:

Anthrax. "Startin' Up A Posse". Attack of the Killer Bees. Island Records, 1991.

See Also:

Wikipedia. "Parental Advisory". January 2, 2011. Wikipedia.org. January 12, 2011. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_Advisory
 
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