Religion in Small Doses

My apologies Adstar, I shouldn't have cracked the joke. Sorry.

I simply feel that when people take an uncompromising approach in their belief and this belief also demands that other peoples beliefs are inherently wrong - well bad things are going to happen.

WHY?? Bad things only happen when people feel they are under the command to force others to submit to their religion. I am under no such command from Jesus. Therefore there is no such danger of bad things (violence and persecution) coming from my direction.

Tell me this Adstar, assuming you are from a Western country (we'll pretend Canada) do you think that Islam should be portrayed in a very positive light?

No. The true teachings of islam should be revealed to the populace of the west to reveal to them the great evil the world faces. Treating the western population like mushrooms because of political correctness will lead to their submission to islam or their extermination.

That people should be encouraged to read about Islam and maybe even become Muslim? If your answer is NO then how do you think that makes LiveInFaith feel?

I think people should be encouraged to read the calls of muhammed to terrorise the infidels until all the world submits to islam. LiveInFaith can choose to Fear what i say, Hate what i say, Accept what i say or reject what i say. LiveInFaith has the freedom to react in any why LiveInFaith chooses. Other people’s reactions are theirs.

And LiveInFaith, think about what you are saying as well. Because your likemindedness would make Hindu feel likewise of course.

Can't you two see that either of your beliefs, if taken too much to the "extreme", causes other people sadness? Have you ever wondered if a belief that directly causes so many other people such sadness is a belief worth holding onto at all?

Michael

A crack addict going through withdrawal symptoms feels pain and a lot of suffering. But if you believe that a form of existence leads to destruction you will encourage someone to come to a way of life that leads to eternal life.

To do otherwise is like telling the crack addict to keep doing the stuff smile and say hey whatever makes you feel good is good for you, increase your dose man and live in a state of bliss. Is that love? Is that caring? Nope that’s sweet sounding hate.

The book of proverbs says it well:

Proverbs 27
6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Sometimes the people who really care about you will tell you things that will cause you sadness and a lot of discomfort. Someone who truly loves you will take your anger and the venom you spit in the hope of bringing you to the right path.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
What I was refering to when this statement was made was that no where in the Quran does it specificly say that you must believe. Notice the the word must in big bold letters. The augument you made is based upon a missunderstanding most likely caused my my inability to express myself as well as i should. But for the most part yes spread the good word and also you are not forced to believe. Its your choice.
so you say it doesn't say you must believe, but if you don't, you'll be doomed.
that pretty much say's it all doesn't it.

the cow 2:85 Believe ye in part of the Scripture and disbelieve ye in part thereof ? And what is the reward of those who do so save ignominy in the life of the world, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be consigned to the most grievous doom. For Allah is not unaware of what ye do.

2:88 And they say: Our hearts are hardened. Nay, but Allah hath cursed them for their unbelief. Little is that which they believe.

2:99 Verily We have revealed unto thee clear tokens, and only miscreants will disbelieve in them.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
 
absolutely no religion has to be taken seriously, we have to make fun of religious pretender, make fun of politicians, make fun of ourselves, and most importantly (as someone is going to say) make fun of other people (=
 
Would you agree that pretty much any religious beleif, whether it's Christianity, Shinto, Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, Scientology, Mormonism, Judaism, Sikh, Hinduism - yes even Atheism (my beleif, or lack there of ;p) , etc... is perfectly fine when the practitioners don't take their beleif too seriously.

It's only really ever a problem when people are very serious in their beleif.

So? Do you agree? Or do you think that the World would be better if everyone was on the same page? If everyone was taught to believe the same as you ... and I mean truely believe it in their hearts - no questions asked.


Michael

This is a more complex question than I originally thought. There are billions of opinions on this you see, and thus religious beliefs, and definitions of "serious" and "better" are extremely subjective.

- It has been said that liberal theists contribute indirectly to the violent fundamentalists' free reign on the planet. By demanding and succeeding in gaining protective and elevated status for any number of religions, even the most ridiculous ones, it is an avenue for the fundamentalist to traverse to almost unacceptable lengths of psychosis in the name of religious belief. By the time the rest of the world notices the bomb-countdown, it's too late. In this light, the hodgepodge of religions seem to be more detrimental than beneficial

- Better if we're on the same page? It depends on how much you like straightlaced routine boredom. Variety as they say is the spice of life. The world might be a little more ordered...

- Better without religion? Right now, in 2007, I'd have to say we've long sinced passed the time where humans should need a religious heirarchy to keep behaviour at large in check (which was a main purpose for the invention of religion). I know I'd be happy if religion did not pose hindrances to my life as it does now, that's as far as I am willing to dream at the moment :shrug:
 
They compelled others. Totally wrong. They never read seriously 'let there be no compulsion in religion".
A couple questions:

1) Was it then wrong to force the polytheistic Arabs to stop worshiping multiple Gods in Mecca? If not then why?

2) Do you think it is moral behavior to force non-Muslims to pay a tax for not being Muslim?

3) Is it OK for a Muslim to make the moral choice (for themselves) to stop being Muslim and convert to Hinduism or convert to Atheism?

4) Do you think that Jews should be able to build Synagogues and Hindus be able to build Polytheistic Temple in Saudi Arabia (for their personal beleif obviously) Lets suppose a Muslim owned some land in Mecca or Medina and they converted to another religious beleif and wanted to build a Temple to their personal new God.

5) Should Christians be able to preach their Religious and seek converts in Muslim coutnries? (again this is a personal choice).


Just a point of matter, most Japanese are not very religous. But this shouldn't be mistaken that the Shinto Religion is a minority of Japanese. Shinto perform many traditional ceremonies like Marriage and Buddhist perform traditional ceremonies like funeral. There are many many many Shinto Shrines in Japan that are patroned by many Japanese. They are every where in Japan. That aside I didn't understand your answer. While you said each to their own, and I understand this, do you personally consider Japanese culture (based on Shintoism and Buddhism) equal to Islamic culture?



Just trying to clear up a few things,
Michael

PS: What did you think of Adstar's response?
 
A couple questions:

1) Was it then wrong to force the polytheistic Arabs to stop worshiping multiple Gods in Mecca? If not then why?

The word FORCE. All I know Muhammad preached, .... long story then... culminated in war, and it happened that time with it's contextual war situation. Maybe it was some kind of 'one of defence is offensive' tactics.
Had it happened today, I mean forcing to diminishing all the statues, I would say it would be wrong (in the way purely Islamic way, but below, let's see when it is ruled under such government who are to regulate a 'social system'). Maybe today, it is better to just relocate them.

2) Do you think it is moral behavior to force non-Muslims to pay a tax for not being Muslim?
This is contextual to land, government regulation.
Muslim Gov't A would not draw tax to Mr. non-muslim B at Mr. B's country land.
See, tax has nothing to do with Islam, but in practice where the social members was dominantly muslim, they have to regulate. Unfortunately, there is discrimination as the product of social system regulation.

3) Is it OK for a Muslim to make the moral choice (for themselves) to stop being Muslim and convert to Hinduism or convert to Atheism?

It is called murtad (apostate). Once he is determined, though many would try to stop, neverthelee, no body can.

4) Do you think that Jews should be able to build Synagogues and Hindus be able to build Polytheistic Temple in Saudi Arabia (for their personal beleif obviously) Lets suppose a Muslim owned some land in Mecca or Medina and they converted to another religious beleif and wanted to build a Temple to their personal new God.

Had I the law maker there: Government would set rules where to build them (allowed under some regulations). This should be considering everyone's interest. You should surely know , nothing can satisfy everybody, always there be pros and cons. The planolog should consider the social system.

5) Should Christians be able to preach their Religious and seek converts in Muslim coutnries? (again this is a personal choice).

Same above. If you talk about "country", hence government, my personal opinion, be me a law maker, there should be a regulation - time, place, how, etc - on applying that wish. You know, law is supposed to prevent uncontrolled conflicts.

Just a point of matter, most Japanese are not very religous. But this shouldn't be mistaken that the Shinto Religion is a minority of Japanese. Shinto perform many traditional ceremonies like Marriage and Buddhist perform traditional ceremonies like funeral. There are many many many Shinto Shrines in Japan that are patroned by many Japanese. They are every where in Japan. That aside I didn't understand your answer. While you said each to their own, and I understand this, do you personally consider Japanese culture (based on Shintoism and Buddhism) equal to Islamic culture?

Just trying to clear up a few things,
Michael

I don't know. I 'm not acknowledged by that. But I guess I can say yes, in approximation, should be more or less. As long as some "religion" has their complete set of way of life (as I think Shinto does), they should be equal more or less. I would be saying that would also came from the same source (the Creator), in different time, different place.


PS: What did you think of Adstar's response?

He can live his self-righteousness.
I am taught not to be a hater or accuser.

Maybe he never been taught that God / Creator sent messengers to all human kind, all time, all places.
I was taught that, that's why I believe Gautama, Confusius, Zarathustra, whoever spread the message of Shinto, not excluding Jesus of course, brought messages of how to live the life in regard to creator, were messengers of God.
 
the cow 2:85 Believe ye in part of the Scripture and disbelieve ye in part thereof ? And what is the reward of those who do so save ignominy in the life of the world, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be consigned to the most grievous doom. For Allah is not unaware of what ye do.

2:88 And they say: Our hearts are hardened. Nay, but Allah hath cursed them for their unbelief. Little is that which they believe.

2:99 Verily We have revealed unto thee clear tokens, and only miscreants will disbelieve in them.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
See Audible, When Allah speaks of slaying them wherever you find them,
he is reffering to those who attack The muslims, as stated in the previous
verse, the one you just so happen to conceal.


To put it into context

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not
transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive
them out of the places whence they drove you out, for
persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with
them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first
attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay
them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful



As for knowing the truth and those who conceal the truth. Allah revealed these verses


2:41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is
with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My
Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

2:42 And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth
when ye know (what it is).

2:43 And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow
down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).



See the problem with taking verses of any book out of context,(with out big picture)is People can get the wrong idea about a particular topic. This is a common practice with those who's intentions are to prove the Quran to be false. There aim is to conceal the truth. Whether they relize it or not.
Now for one who logicly consider what is actualy being said in Quran, its extremly difficult to find fault in absolute truth. As you can see in verses 2:190 - 2:192 It is justified for anyone who attacks the muslims that the muslims can retaliate, but within the bounds set by Allah and his messanger (pbuh),
 
I think we can see that some people, who take their religous belief very seriously, may be (if either a robust representation of the popultation or in a position in power) detrimental to society - especially to those who happen to disregard or even be anti- their particular faith. And this is IMHO regardless of what that particular beleif is. Jesus, Allah, Mosses, PU or FSM. It really doesn't matter. Which is why I suggest that Religion in small doses is the best option for society. And also, I put forward, should never be in political control - that is, secular governments are preferred.

Or so I think anyway,
Michael
 
Michael
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
at a certain point beliefs clash - this is exhibited quite distinctly between atheists and theists through out history -

perhaps in modern History in Communist countries but for the most of human history it has been one God (or set of Gods) versus another. Take the Christian Crusades for example or the Islamic conquest of Persia, the Age of Discovery or the Tokugawa expulsion of Christians from Japan.
there are many ways to explain clashes of interest throughout history - religion is one, politics is another ....

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
- even the belief that beliefs should not be taken seriously runs in to trouble when it encounters the belief that beliefs should .....

Perhaps, but while I'll try to elaborate and defend my point I'm not going to spend every waking moment thinking about it nor will I allow it to define my life.
then you must have other beliefs/values that take the forefront of your life, and can be brought to focus by encountering the antithesis of them - it sthe nature of duality in this world - there is no avoiding it
See the difference.

You asked what beliefs should be taken seriously. I personally spend most of my time thinking about using neural stem cells to cure broken spinal cords and other diseased CNS tissue. I take my work seriously. I present it and I defend it. While I will argue over the scientific merits of it - I wouldn't threaten, ostracize or even kill someone for not taking my side in regards to it or not believing it! I wouldn't burn people at the stake or tax those that different in opinion with me.
I also wouldn't burn people at the stake either (for reasons religious or otherwise), nor would I condone it- people have different ways of expressing their values on others - intelligent discussion is one - causing a coup with the light armored division might be another
 
OMG I have a really bad flu :(

Thanks for your opinion guys, also, LiveInFaith you seem like an open minded person in regards to the statue smashing - that's good.


One more general question:
What does religous extremism actually mean? Is it generally a good thing or bad?
What about fundamentalism?

MiCHAEL
 
I would like to disagree about people saying whats wrong with being too religous. I once knew a kid at my school who would constantly follow me around, immediatly pair up with me for projects, etc. But whenever he talked, it was always " God this, God that". He would often ask me what I thought God was thinking, and I would always say know. He was too cheerful, and would often say that everything was made by God. He even went so far to say that evolution is a lie and that intelligent design is true. This kid let religion take over his life. And because of it, he wasn't prepared for the cold, harsh, and remorseless nature of life. At my last year there, I told him to back off, because I was tired of him following me everywhere and being partners with me for everything because we both knew he would fail if he didin't partner. Anyway, what I said seemed to of fractured him in some way. He never acted the same since.

I am used to lifes cruel ways, how it snatches away the ones we hold most dear. How it destroys familys and drives people into denial. And because of my grandfather dying when I was still about 8 years old, I have been prepared for how ruthlesslife can be. I have grown used to it. Letting your beleifs take over your life will only disappoint you in the long run. And because of my experience, which is quite traumatic for kid that was my age, I have grown somewhat insensistive to other people, prefering to isolate myself.
 
I think we can see that some people, who take their religous belief very seriously, may be (if either a robust representation of the popultation or in a position in power) detrimental to society - especially to those who happen to disregard or even be anti- their particular faith. And this is IMHO regardless of what that particular beleif is. Jesus, Allah, Mosses, PU or FSM. It really doesn't matter. Which is why I suggest that Religion in small doses is the best option for society. And also, I put forward, should never be in political control - that is, secular governments are preferred.

Or so I think anyway,
Michael

Well, I can't discredit your personal experience, but I can tell you that what you have posted above certainly does not apply to me. I take my religion very seriously, and I do contribute to society. People consider me pretty intelligent and sensible, and personally, there is nobody I can't get along with, given they don't mind befriending a Muslim. I know plenty of people who believe in a different religion (or lack thereof), and I am perfectly fine with that. To me, their beliefs are wrong, but that is their business, so as long as it doesn't pose any danger to me, I'm fine.

Ultimately, I don't very much agree with this thread. Religion is a serious issue; you can't pick and choose what you'd like to practice and what you'd like to omit. Either you're totally committed, or you're not committed at all. My two pennies.
 
I would like to disagree about people saying whats wrong with being too religous. I once knew a kid at my school who would constantly follow me around, immediatly pair up with me for projects, etc. But whenever he talked, it was always " God this, God that". He would often ask me what I thought God was thinking, and I would always say know. He was too cheerful, and would often say that everything was made by God. He even went so far to say that evolution is a lie and that intelligent design is true. This kid let religion take over his life. And because of it, he wasn't prepared for the cold, harsh, and remorseless nature of life. At my last year there, I told him to back off, because I was tired of him following me everywhere and being partners with me for everything because we both knew he would fail if he didin't partner. Anyway, what I said seemed to of fractured him in some way. He never acted the same since.

I am used to lifes cruel ways, how it snatches away the ones we hold most dear. How it destroys familys and drives people into denial. And because of my grandfather dying when I was still about 8 years old, I have been prepared for how ruthlesslife can be. I have grown used to it. Letting your beleifs take over your life will only disappoint you in the long run. And because of my experience, which is quite traumatic for kid that was my age, I have grown somewhat insensistive to other people, prefering to isolate myself.
*************
M*W: I liked your post, because it is true. I myself was too religious during my young adulthood. Everything I ate, lived and breathed was within the parameters of Roman catholicism. I only read books that were pope-approved. That was way too religious for my own good! I shut out the rest of the world to live within the confines of a belief system that included not only catholicism but other christian denominations as well. Then I got pulled into the charismatic revolution, and I scorched the Earth praying and preaching and laying on of hands. This didn't seem to bother anyone I knew, because they, too, were all catholic charismatics and protestant pentecostals. Small world to hide in, I'd say.

You spoke of the guy who followed you around... I had that same experience in college (a Baptist university). This young man (well I was young at the time, too), kept following me around everywhere. He sort of annoyed me, and I thought he was just a lonely nerd pest. I couldn't seem to get away from him, and I'd actually hide when I could! Then one day I asked him if he knew this senior guy BMOC who was a real charmer, and I innocently told him I'd like to meet him! This guy was so crushed, he started to cry... literally... right there on campus between classes! I didn't think this guy liked me like that, but that's when I found out! I felt so bad about it, but I just wasn't interested in him since he was so aggressively christian and was preaching to me all the time. When I started dating my future husband (now ex-) and those kids found out I was dating a catholic, I swear to you, they practically abducted me to deprogram me from associating with a catholic! I had to get out of that place. It was too creepy for me, and they pushed all that baptist religion down our throats! Threatened us that if we dared to dance, we'd all go to hell! Just imagine what they thought about me dating a catholic! I was already fried!
 
Well, I can't discredit your personal experience, but I can tell you that what you have posted above certainly does not apply to me. I take my religion very seriously, and I do contribute to society. People consider me pretty intelligent and sensible, and personally, there is nobody I can't get along with, given they don't mind befriending a Muslim. I know plenty of people who believe in a different religion (or lack thereof), and I am perfectly fine with that. To me, their beliefs are wrong, but that is their business, so as long as it doesn't pose any danger to me, I'm fine.
That's what's wrong with the word serious. It is a little vague. I think from reading MW post you can get an idea of what I meant anyway.

Also, probably from my point of view you're not all that serious. Oh, you are in a sense, but not to the point of, say, not playing FF or Okami because they deal in magics and other religions.

Right?

I went to a dinner a Chinese woman was preparing. Her Muslim friend demanded that she help prepare the food because it needed to meet certain standards. This peeved her a little because she wanted to prepare the dinner herself. So she said no. Then when the Muslim girl came, a little early, she said the food was not right (religiously) and so she couldn't eat some of it. And because she was there early she helped prepare some of the OK food. Then when the Chinese womans' Hindu friend arrived she said she couldn't eat food that was prepared by a Muslim. Needless to say the Chinese woman was so pissed off.

I'd say that is too religous.

Also, a student here whose mother was kind enough to come and make us lunch couldn't touch me (as in no hand-shake) because we were not of the same faith and that kind of, at the time, made me think I didn't ever want to eat a lunch of hers again. I was rather insulted and I would simply rather not have the food. Maybe if some food comes again I will eat it or maybe I will not. I'm not sure. But I wonder if I turned down the food and said I can not eat food from someone who can not shake my hand - how would she feel? I wouldn't say such a thing because obviously it is insulting.

I have a Muslim buddy who lives unmarried with his Catholic girl friend, drinks beer, downloads porn, boot-legs software, smokes etc... see, his religion doesn't interfere too much with him having a good time and living his life - which in MHO is much more preferable than if it did. (he does observe the rules for Ramadan)

Make sense???

MII
 
That's what's wrong with the word serious. It is a little vague. I think from reading MW post you can get an idea of what I meant anyway.

All I get from MW's post is that she had a creepy stalker.

Also, probably from my point of view you're not all that serious. Oh, you are in a sense, but not to the point of, say, not playing FF or Okami because they deal in magics and other religions.

Yes, I am all that serious. There is nothing wrong with learning about other religions or playing video games based off ficticious ones; the only problem is when you actually believe it. Haven't seen very many muslims apostating to become a "religion" inscribed in FF. In no way are video games disallowed in Islam, unless they displayed pornography and things alike.

I went to a dinner a Chinese woman was preparing. Her Muslim friend demanded that she help prepare the food because it needed to meet certain standards. This peeved her a little because she wanted to prepare the dinner herself. So she said no. Then when the Muslim girl came, a little early, she said the food was not right (religiously) and so she couldn't eat some of it. And because she was there early she helped prepare some of the OK food. Then when the Chinese womans' Hindu friend arrived she said she couldn't eat food that was prepared by a Muslim. Needless to say the Chinese woman was so pissed off.

Umm...okay. Who said I agreed? Refer to when I said, it depends on the religion. Regardless, she has every right to refuse the food, and I'm saying this as a Muslim.

Also, a student here whose mother was kind enough to come and make us lunch couldn't touch me (as in no hand-shake) because we were not of the same faith and that kind of, at the time, made me think I didn't ever want to eat a lunch of hers again. I was rather insulted and I would simply rather not have the food. Maybe if some food comes again I will eat it or maybe I will not. I'm not sure. But I wonder if I turned down the food and said I can not eat food from someone who can not shake my hand - how would she feel? I wouldn't say such a thing because obviously it is insulting.

That's a shame, but she has every right to do that. Deal with it.

I have a Muslim buddy who lives unmarried with his Catholic girl friend, drinks beer, downloads porn, boot-legs software, smokes etc... see, his religion doesn't interfere too much with him having a good time and living his life - which in MHO is much more preferable than if it did. (he does observe the rules for Ramadan)

He's a Muslim by faith, but he does sin. Where's the confusion in this? Obviously, he is not a strict believer/follower of his faith, considering your description.
 
Kadark,

Which is why I said the word "serious" is a little too vague. Let me try to qualify the the terms. Too Religiously Serious: Someone who will not read, nor allow their children to read (if they have children), the Harry Potter books for fear their soul may be damned and that they may bring down the wrath of God upon themselves and their descendants.

THAT'S too serious!
:)
Michael

PS: There are religous people who think this.
 
Kadark,

Which is why I said the word "serious" is a little too vague. Let me try to qualify the the terms. Too Religiously Serious: Someone who will not read, nor allow their children to read (if they have children), the Harry Potter books for fear their soul may be damned and that they may bring down the wrath of God upon themselves and their descendants.

THAT'S too serious!
:)
Michael

PS: There are religous people who think this.

I suppose the average person would consider that too serious, but we must respect the parents' decision. I myself would never hesitate in reading Harry Potter (except for the facts that the books suck), nor would I forbid my hypothetical kids to read them. Does any religion specifically forbid against reading such books? Not trying to sound condescending, but rather an honest question.
 
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OMG I have a really bad flu :(

if you are at the mucus stage try eating a huge bowl of hot porridge made from semolina(1 part) with water(2 part) butter (1 part) and sugar (1 part) for breakfast and without drinking any fluids afterwards for about six hours

if you are at the sore throat stage try eating a little bit of grated ginger with salt from time to time

One more general question:
What does religous extremism actually mean? Is it generally a good thing or bad?

religious extremism tends to mean acts done in the name of religion that contravene currently held social norms



What about fundamentalism?

fundamentalism tends to also mean the same thing, although technically it means returning to the "fundamentals" of religion - it tends to happen when the philosophy that tags along with religion gets so watered down as to become ineffective in every day life (ie when the philosophy of what is to be done and what is not to be done becomes obscured, eg - "nothing is good, nothing is bad, all things lead to the same end, etc)
 
I went to a dinner a Chinese woman was preparing. Her Muslim friend demanded that she help prepare the food because it needed to meet certain standards. This peeved her a little because she wanted to prepare the dinner herself. So she said no. Then when the Muslim girl came, a little early, she said the food was not right (religiously) and so she couldn't eat some of it. And because she was there early she helped prepare some of the OK food. Then when the Chinese womans' Hindu friend arrived she said she couldn't eat food that was prepared by a Muslim. Needless to say the Chinese woman was so pissed off.

This one's a little strange to me, because of all religions, friends of mine who follow the Hindu religion are the most liberal, and least anal-retentive. Even the one vegetarian Hindu is vegetarian by his own choice and not due to religious upbringing (his Hindu dad did not subscribe to vegetarianism).

Then again, most of my current friends are liberal anyway :)
 
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