Thinking the others are wrong does not equate to lack of respect for the beliefs of others.
Religion in Small Doses
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
Thinking the others are wrong does not equate to lack of respect for the beliefs of others.
Small doses of sanity?
I have yet to encounter the religion that fulfills the topic post. The problem with the faiths we have is that even in small doses, they're like cancer to rational thinking. I'll give Buddhism some wiggle room, but I'm still given to silly fits of laughter every time I see pictures of monks beating the shite out of one another in the street for ... well, the reasons are never clear. But Buddhists know how to fight, tellyawhat.
The thing is that in small doses, that is, without taking things too seriously, Christianity becomes something like "house", or "tea party"--a game children play. And I suppose that's just fine, except that I frequently meet adults who never stopped playing the game.
Liquor, in small doses and not taken too seriously, is an entertaining and worthwhile diversion. Doesn't mean it's not bad for you all the same.
Or, more accurately, baseball. There are some folks who like baseball, and some who go over the deep end. What marks the abyss is various. My brother owned season tickets for a few years. I still can't imagine letting baseball be that much a part of my life. To the other, though, he's safely ensconced in the respectable crowd that occupies the space between the fairweathers and the addicts.
Hell, the other day we heard about these life-sized bobble-head dolls being auctioned for charity. My brother just shrugged and said, "I'll bet one of those ends up in Joe's living room."
And even that guy is still somewhat sane.
Nonetheless, watching people either actually pray over a baseball game, or behave in a manner that fulfills a more anthropological and psychological view of prayer, it becomes quickly apparent that some folks take it way too far.
"O! Great Abner, beyond the Great Green Wall, receive us into your skybox, and shower us with the love of an eternity without ever running out of hot dogs and beer. And, uh, those stale chips with the plastic cheese on them. They're really great, Great Abner."
"Now I lay me down to sleep,
Stealing second I shall dream.
If I die 'fore rounding third,
Let the throw home hit a bird.
Abner bless Mommy,
and Daddy,
and baby sister.
And please let Kenji hit a homer tomorrow,
so I can tell all my friends about it at school.
Play ball!"
"Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to join this man and this woman in the holy jockstrap of love, that they may finally go past third base together, and maybe he can leg it home to score."
Okay, okay, okay. Watch Bull Durham, and remember that Susan Sarandon's character is not, in the scheme of things, all that crazy.
Maybe I should have left the post at my original idea: "Small doses, eh? But isn't religion the opiate of the masses?"
I have yet to encounter the religion that fulfills the topic post. The problem with the faiths we have is that even in small doses, they're like cancer to rational thinking. I'll give Buddhism some wiggle room, but I'm still given to silly fits of laughter every time I see pictures of monks beating the shite out of one another in the street for ... well, the reasons are never clear. But Buddhists know how to fight, tellyawhat.
The thing is that in small doses, that is, without taking things too seriously, Christianity becomes something like "house", or "tea party"--a game children play. And I suppose that's just fine, except that I frequently meet adults who never stopped playing the game.
Liquor, in small doses and not taken too seriously, is an entertaining and worthwhile diversion. Doesn't mean it's not bad for you all the same.
Or, more accurately, baseball. There are some folks who like baseball, and some who go over the deep end. What marks the abyss is various. My brother owned season tickets for a few years. I still can't imagine letting baseball be that much a part of my life. To the other, though, he's safely ensconced in the respectable crowd that occupies the space between the fairweathers and the addicts.
Hell, the other day we heard about these life-sized bobble-head dolls being auctioned for charity. My brother just shrugged and said, "I'll bet one of those ends up in Joe's living room."
And even that guy is still somewhat sane.
Nonetheless, watching people either actually pray over a baseball game, or behave in a manner that fulfills a more anthropological and psychological view of prayer, it becomes quickly apparent that some folks take it way too far.
"O! Great Abner, beyond the Great Green Wall, receive us into your skybox, and shower us with the love of an eternity without ever running out of hot dogs and beer. And, uh, those stale chips with the plastic cheese on them. They're really great, Great Abner."
"Now I lay me down to sleep,
Stealing second I shall dream.
If I die 'fore rounding third,
Let the throw home hit a bird.
Abner bless Mommy,
and Daddy,
and baby sister.
And please let Kenji hit a homer tomorrow,
so I can tell all my friends about it at school.
Play ball!"
"Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to join this man and this woman in the holy jockstrap of love, that they may finally go past third base together, and maybe he can leg it home to score."
Okay, okay, okay. Watch Bull Durham, and remember that Susan Sarandon's character is not, in the scheme of things, all that crazy.
Maybe I should have left the post at my original idea: "Small doses, eh? But isn't religion the opiate of the masses?"
True. Many could think that others are "wrong" but still respect the persons' right to believe what they want.Those types I like.
But in MY experience I've met too many hard core types who don't respect other peoples beliefs at all.
I think that if people were to examine their beliefs honestly and fearlessly to rid it of all contradictions and inconsistencies and retain their religious beliefs then that would be perfectly fine for me. Except that it's evident that no religious beliefs can survive after the onslaught of honestly applied intelligence.
But more directly to your question, my answer would be no. It's like asking "is taking just a little bit of poison bad?" It may not kill you but it builds in detriment. Another observation is that it allows, who may have more of an appetite than you, others to consume more and more, ever extending the idiosyncratic definition of "too much".
You sound like a fundamentalist.
perhaps in modern History in Communist countries but for the most of human history it has been one God (or set of Gods) versus another. Take the Christian Crusades for example or the Islamic conquest of Persia, the Age of Discovery or the Tokugawa expulsion of Christians from Japan.
Perhaps, but while I'll try to elaborate and defend my point I'm not going to spend every waking moment thinking about it nor will I allow it to define my life.
See the difference.
You asked what beliefs should be taken seriously. I personally spend most of my time thinking about using neural stem cells to cure broken spinal cords and other diseased CNS tissue. I take my work seriously. I present it and I defend it. While I will argue over the scientific merits of it - I wouldn't threaten, ostracize or even kill someone for not taking my side in regards to it or not believing it! I wouldn't burn people at the stake or tax those that different in opinion with me.
I agree, but I think you can see I mentioned I didn’t quite understand your sentence as it was written. Perhaps I’d have used “accept”.
Missionary monotheists accept there are polytheist Hindus but do not place this belief on equal footing with Christianity. Actually the opposite, they condemn polytheistic belief. So, no, they do not “respect” Hindus belief system any more than they respect Atheism.
Only in that such phrases are turned out only when there is a large proportion of constituents amenable to the message. Many indeed. Especially the ones with a “strong” Christian belief – I think everyone would agree that they’d be the ones most susceptible to such propaganda?
True.
I grew up in the States and I know many Midwest Christians. Baptists and Methodists for the most part. I don’t think too many of them would place the Hindu belief system on equal footing with Christianity.
They may accept that people of differencing phenotype as equal and accept that each political party has it’s good apples and bad (of course they naturally think America is the God blessed best country ever) but if they take Christianity at all seriously they will not accept that Shinto polytheism is an equally valid belief system – no way.
Maybe West coast Christians or those from NY but not in the Midwest.
Maybe I don’t understand what you mean by respecting others beliefs.
I know exactly 1 Catholic Priest who is agnostic theist. He will say that yes Hindu polytheism may be correct.
Is this what you mean?
[oddly enough almost every “serious” Buddhist I have met will suggest that Christianity may be correct – I suppose unlike monotheism their belief allows for such lateral thinking?]
Perhaps. Does recognizing that bigot’s exist make one a bigot?
Let me rephrase, I don’t mean to say that ALL theists (or atheists) are in the “them” category. But there are groups that do take their belief IMHO to seriously and that this is not as good as those that do not. If they are a them then so be it. I also recognize that there are people who distinguish “race” (while I find it an antiquated term) and will agree that there are phenotypic qualities that I do admire traditionally thought of as “Asian” while there are those that are blatant white supremacist skinheads.
That the difference I am getting at.
Little dose = no biggy, too serious ~(more likely to equal)~ big problem.
Well I will agree that the Qur'an says such, and your theistic doctrine is as such, but I know many Christians that take it as a part of their religous beleif to spread the word of God to the unbeleiver. Which IMHO means that they do not "respect" this other persons beleif as valid or equal to their own.
Let me ask you this.
Do you think that the Japanese polytheistic religion Shinto is equal to the Qur'an? I'm assuming you are no expert on Japanese religion and I am not asking you to be. Just know that the religion has a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses and also has been a part of Japanese culture for thousands of years, much older than Islam.
Knowing this do you "respect" the Japanese beleif system as equal to your own?
Is there a possibility that the Japanese beleif system could be correct while yours is incorrect?
Michael
Humph .. .. ..
Just to be clear, are you saying that thinking another persons opinion is wrong, but acknowledging they may be right and your is wrong, is respecting that other persons beleif? If so I agree.
But knowing that another person's opinion is wrong does not afford that person any respect at all in MHO.
Michael
Religion in "small doses"? Religion isn't like sweets or fatty foods - it's not an on and off thing. If you are truly religious, then your religion is like a way of life. It has control over every decision you make in your life. Religion in small doses is a contradiction in itself, because following a religion in small portions is basically the equivalent to not following it at all.
I see your point and tend to agree - Celpha Fiael are you agnostic atheist?
Is it possible to take a religion as fundamental and remain open minded in that other beleif systems are instead correct?
Michael
PS: I did mention I'm agnostic atheist?
Someone who accepts that there may be Gods or Goddesses but doesn't believe there are.
Logically, the possibilities exist.
Michaekl
Michael,
Why do you insist on focusing on "right" and "wrong"?
Respect is separate from whether you think someone is "right" or "wrong".
Those with this mindset is exactly what I am talking about.
You can respect soemone and their beliefs - even if you think they are wrong.
It is not being serious about religion that causes these problems, it is teh unwillingness to allow others to live as they see fit - irrespective of religion entirely.
It just manifests itself in religion sometimes.
As I said, I have known quite a few people that were very serious about tehir religious/spiritual beliefs and did not have this problem and I know even more that were not religious and DID have this problem.
Why do you insist on focusing on "right" and "wrong"?
Respect is separate from whether you think someone is "right" or "wrong".
Those with this mindset is exactly what I am talking about.
You can respect soemone and their beliefs - even if you think they are wrong.
It is not being serious about religion that causes these problems, it is teh unwillingness to allow others to live as they see fit - irrespective of religion entirely.
It just manifests itself in religion sometimes.
As I said, I have known quite a few people that were very serious about tehir religious/spiritual beliefs and did not have this problem and I know even more that were not religious and DID have this problem.
PonderuponThis
Registered Member
ok I found a link to shinto website.
I do respect other peoples beliefs.
I'm not sure what is meant by when you say "hold them as equals"(by saying "them" I'm reffering to system of belief)
obviously they are not equal.
Why?
Well, the most important fundemental belief within the Islamic faith is in fact is that there is only one God. The Shinto belief system from what I've read, are only doing what there fathers did. Worshipping multiple Gods which have no power compared to the Creator and the sustainor of Everything.
and quran says about this :
(2.256)
Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah): They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty.
As for the possibility of the shinto belief system, being labled as correct.
I'm absolutly sure that within the Shinto system of belief are many true and sound judgments. Other wise I don't think the people of japan would have allowed for such a way of life to be passed onto there children for three centries.
As for the belief system which I follow being in a state of incorrectness, is impossible.
why?
Allah has chosen this way of life for humanity.
and he would not be so injust as to tell us to follow the wrong path.
supporting detail would incude verse from Holy Quran
'This day I have completed your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you and have selected for your Way of Life, Al-Islam." [Holy Quran, 5:3]
Because Allah is most Just, all Knowing, most Gracious most Mecifull, and the list goes on.
You cannot coerce belief. Oh you can coerce people to say anything but you cannot force someone to believe something. Followers of Jesus are saved by believing Jesus, not just saying they believe in Jesus. So if someone tried to coerce someone into believing they are trying to do the imposable.
That is no coercion. That is giving ones children understanding in the beliefs that one holds dear. If this forces the child to believe in Jesus then this forum would not be filled with atheists who where brought up in Christian families and where taught about Jesus. The fact that so many of the people in this section of the forum come from that background proves that it is impossible to coerce belief.
Well of course it is harder for other beliefs to flourish, But what is hard is not impossible. Many people brought up in a Christian environment have become all the examples you have given.
Therefore teaching ones children Jesus is not coercion. And attempting to coerce belief is vanity and a waste of time.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Michael,
Do you think it is wrong to teach yuor children what you to believe is right and wrong?
Do you believe it is wrong to instill what you think is proper values in yoru children?
Can you respect the beliefs of others (even though they may differ from yours)?
Do you think it is wrong to teach yuor children what you to believe is right and wrong?
Do you believe it is wrong to instill what you think is proper values in yoru children?
Can you respect the beliefs of others (even though they may differ from yours)?