Religion in Small Doses

[Michael]

Would you agree that pretty much any religious beleif, whether it's Christianity, Shinto, Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, Scientology, Mormonism, Judaism, Sikh, Hinduism - yes even Atheism (my beleif, or lack there of ;p) , etc... is perfectly fine when the practitioners don't take their beleif too seriously.

It's only really ever a problem when people are very serious in their beleif.

So? Do you agree? Or do you think that the World would be better if everyone was on the same page? If everyone was taught to believe the same as you ... and I mean truely believe it in their hearts - no questions asked.


Michael

 

[James R]

Would you agree that pretty much any religious beleif, whether it's Christianity, Shinto, Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, Scientology, Mormonism, Judaism, Sikh, Hinduism - yes even Atheism (my beleif, or lack there of ;p) , etc... is perfectly fine when the practitioners don't take their beleif too seriously.

What would be "too seriously"?

As I see it, the problem is not the belief itself, but the actions that are thought to be necessary as a consequence of that belief. Some actions may be harmless to other people; others may be harmful.

So, if you mean that religion is ok as long as it doesn't lead people to harm others (and perhaps themselves) then I agree with you. Harm is "too serious".

So? Do you agree? Or do you think that the World would be better if everyone was on the same page?

Depends what the page was. I can think of a great many beliefs that can lead to a greatly dysfunctional society even though widely shared.

 

[Michael]

What would be "too seriously"?

I'd like to say: "You know the type."

We all know those people who are described, by family and friends as, "very" religous. I'd say those type are too serious. Where their beleif is not just a part of their life but the main part. Everything is seen through religious color lens so to speak.

Versus, people who only think about religion once in awhile - say when someone is married or someone dies or it's a holiday etc... other then thinking to themselves "I will go to heaven when I die" (or be reborn ect..) beleif really isn't a main concern for them. More like something they were taught as a child and so they just assume it's true but that's about it.

Michael

 

[Adstar]

Would you agree that pretty much any religious beleif, whether it's Christianity, Shinto, Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, Scientology, Mormonism, Judaism, Sikh, Hinduism - yes even Atheism (my beleif, or lack there of ;p) , etc... is perfectly fine when the practitioners don't take their beleif too seriously.

It's only really ever a problem when people are very serious in their beleif.

So? Do you agree? Or do you think that the World would be better if everyone was on the same page? If everyone was taught to believe the same as you ... and I mean truely believe it in their hearts - no questions asked.


Michael

Yes i think the world would be better if everybody truely believed Jesus in their hearts .

And you cannot truely believe Jesus without taking Him seriously.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[one_raven]

There's nothing wrong at all about taking your religion seriously.
In fact, I think there is a much bigger problem with those who do not take their religion seriously - and rather pick and choose bits and pieces that apply to their life and use the rest to condemn others.
I know many very religious, pious people who do notcause any problems for anyone at all.

No, taking your religion seriously isn't a problem at all.
Deciding that OTHERS need to be a part of your religion is a problem.
Applying yoru own personal views to thers and judging/condemning THEM according to YOUR beliefs is.
Not recognizing that their view as just as valid as yours are is the problem.
Being intolerant of others is the problem.
That's not the fault of religion as much as it is human nature.

 

[Michael]

Deciding that OTHERS need to be a part of your religion is a problem.

What if part of your religous beleif states you must "spread the Good Word".

Applying yoru own personal views to thers and judging/condemning THEM according to YOUR beliefs is.

If, say, the religion itself condemns others? What if the religion itself is centered on a beleif that you MUST accept X Prophet or X God or X etc.. and if you do not then you will burn in Hell fire.

Couldn't taking such a religion too seriously be bad news for people who do not believe in X Prophet or X God or ect...?

How can one take a religion seriously that condemns non-believers but not condemn non-believes? That appears oxymoronic - doesn't it?

Not recognizing that their view as just as valid as yours are is the problem.

Do you think that a serious monotheistic person can accept that polytheism is a valid beleif system and not condemn it? (or visa versa?)

I've even asked moderate monotheists here if polytheism could even be a possibility and got a big fat resounding *silence* *diversion* *red-herring* etc... which is to say "NO"


I'm Atheist, but I'm not a millitant Atheist. I acknowledge that the possibility exists that Gods may exit; I just don't happen to believe they do. Yet, if I were a millitant Atheist perhaps I wouldn't. If I were in a position of power and a millitant Atheist perhaps things would be bad for non-Atheists!?!?!

BUT, if I were Atheist and didn't really think much about it - then I probably wouldn't give two craps if a person worshipped on long dead mythologized Prophet or God etc...

What do you think?
Michael

 

[Michael]

Yes i think the world would be better if everybody truely believed Jesus in their hearts .

And you cannot truely believe Jesus without taking Him seriously.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Do you think it's acceptable to coerce people into believing in Jesus? Say, by, teaching children at a very early age that there is a Jesus and they should get to know Him? Hence they naturally believe in Jesus? Or say, by making it harder for other beliefs to flourish - such as Scientology, Islam or Atheism?

MII

 

[Fugu-dono]

Fanaticism of religion or atheism is probably when they should start shoving individuals into assylum. hehe... just kidding. I got nothing against religion so they can worship whatever they want, but it's sickening when it roots itself to politic or when they try to force their belief on others. Frankly religion should never have anything to do with politic ever but that's just the way of the world as it is. There should be a universal law against that crap. IMO Religions are just a form of propaganda afterall. Maybe a psychological test every year to estimate how much of a zealot people are towards their belief and rehabilitate those that are brainwashed to the point of being spiteful towards others not believing in the same faith. Hahaha...

 

[lightgigantic]

Would you agree that pretty much any religious beleif, whether it's Christianity, Shinto, Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, Scientology, Mormonism, Judaism, Sikh, Hinduism - yes even Atheism (my beleif, or lack there of ;p) , etc... is perfectly fine when the practitioners don't take their beleif too seriously.

what do you suggest we do take seriously then?
something?
anything?
nothing?
should we seriously accept the idea that we shouldn't accept beliefs seriously?

It's only really ever a problem when people are very serious in their beleif.

So? Do you agree? Or do you think that the World would be better if everyone was on the same page? If everyone was taught to believe the same as you ... and I mean truely believe it in their hearts - no questions asked.


Michael

is not taking god seriously a sub branch of atheism?

 

[spidergoat]

Some traditions value seriousness more than others. To monotheists, not taking it seriously is paramount to not believing it. Buddhists would concede that their seriousness is a method, not an end in itself.

 

[one_raven]

You can, and many do, take your beliefs very seriously, while accepting and respecting the fact that others have their own beliefs.

 

[one_raven]

If you are not a complete believer, why would you subscribe to a religion at all?
I have never understood that.

 

[Michael]

Maybe a psychological test every year to estimate how much of a zealot people are towards their belief and rehabilitate those that are brainwashed to the point of being spiteful towards others not believing in the same faith. ...

Yes, this is sort of what I was thinking.

what do you suggest we do take seriously then?
something?
anything?
nothing?
should we seriously accept the idea that we shouldn't accept beliefs seriously?


is not taking god seriously a sub branch of atheism?

Well, it seems t me then, it depends on the beleif. See the above post and the below post.

Some traditions value seriousness more than others. To monotheists, not taking it seriously is paramount to not believing it. Buddhists would concede that their seriousness is a method, not an end in itself.

You can, and many do, take your beliefs very seriously, while accepting and respecting the fact that others have their own beliefs.

Do I agree? Yes, but, what does it mean "respecting the fact that others have their own beliefs" - - many Christian fundamentalists "respect" the fact that Hindu are polytheistic; but not in a positive manner. They take it as an evil sin and instead of "respecting" this ancient beleif as a unique beleif system they only see it with contempt and attempt only to convert them to Christianity.

It was no accident or slip of the tongue when Bush Jr said "This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while." he knew exactly what he was saying and who he was saying it to. Christians in general (as these boards can attest) no more respect Muslims than Muslims think Jesus was God on Earth and pork-chops are yummy. Ever hear a Christian say "OH, you are an Atheist, that's great!" Not if they take their beleif very serious. Some may even see you as possessed

Remember the Seinfeld episode when Elaine finds out her boyfriend Puddy is a born-again Christian and in response to Elaine telling Puddy she's not a Christian Puddy's reply is: "What do I care? You're the one going to hell" That's the nonchalant sort of Chrisitianess that has made America great. One could say Puddy doesn't take Christianity too seriously? Perhaps a fundamental Christian may take it upon themselves to convert Elaine or even stop dating her?

Make sense?

 

[Enmos]

Would you agree that pretty much any religious beleif, whether it's Christianity, Shinto, Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, Scientology, Mormonism, Judaism, Sikh, Hinduism - yes even Atheism (my beleif, or lack there of ;p) , etc... is perfectly fine when the practitioners don't take their beleif too seriously.

It's only really ever a problem when people are very serious in their beleif.

So? Do you agree? Or do you think that the World would be better if everyone was on the same page? If everyone was taught to believe the same as you ... and I mean truely believe it in their hearts - no questions asked.

Michael

I would agree.
Everyone is free to believe what he or she wants, but it indeed becomes a problem when people get too serious about it. For instance when they dedicate their lives to convert other people. That is an arrogance stance and just plain annoying.

However i cannot help to believe that the world would be a better place if everyone would believe the same thing. Not that thats ever going to happen...

 

[lightgigantic]

Yes, this is sort of what I was thinking.

Well, it seems t me then, it depends on the beleif. See the above post and the below post.



Do I agree? Yes, but, what does it mean "respecting the fact that others have their own beliefs" - - many Christian fundamentalists "respect" the fact that Hindu are polytheistic; but not in a positive manner. They take it as an evil sin and instead of "respecting" this ancient beleif as a unique beleif system they only see it with contempt and attempt only to convert them to Christianity.

It was no accident or slip of the tongue when Bush Jr said "This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while." he knew exactly what he was saying and who he was saying it to. Christians in general (as these boards can attest) no more respect Muslims than Muslims think Jesus was God on Earth and pork-chops are yummy. Ever hear a Christian say "OH, you are an Atheist, that's great!" Not if they take their beleif very serious. Some may even see you as possessed

Remember the Seinfeld episode when Elaine finds out her boyfriend Puddy is a born-again Christian and in response to Elaine telling Puddy she's not a Christian Puddy's reply is: "What do I care? You're the one going to hell" That's the nonchalant sort of Chrisitianess that has made America great. One could say Puddy doesn't take Christianity too seriously? Perhaps a fundamental Christian may take it upon themselves to convert Elaine or even stop dating her?

Make sense?

at a certain point beliefs clash - this is exhibited quite distinctly between atheists and theists through out history - even the belief that beliefs should not be taken seriously runs in to trouble when it encounters the belief that beliefs should .....

The underpinning factor behind all beliefs is what one holds as essentially true - the only exception would be someone who holds that nothing is essentially true or matters ... in which case they wouldn't have the slightest interest in voicing their opinion or bearing an influence

 

[one_raven]

Do I agree? Yes, but, what does it mean "respecting the fact that others have their own beliefs" - - many Christian fundamentalists "respect" the fact that Hindu are polytheistic; but not in a positive manner. They take it as an evil sin and instead of "respecting" this ancient beleif as a unique beleif system they only see it with contempt and attempt only to convert them to Christianity.

Then they are obviously NOT respecting the beliefs of the Hindus.
Respect, but not in a positive manner? That doesn't even make sense.

It was no accident or slip of the tongue when Bush Jr said "This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.

Quoting individuals does nothing but point out the strngths/weaknesses of those individuals.
Bush is a lying, manipulative propaganda machine.
What does any of this have to do with respect of the beliefs of others?
He, quite obviously, has none.

Christians in general (as these boards can attest) no more respect Muslims than Muslims think Jesus was God on Earth and pork-chops are yummy.

Christians on this board, in general, are very few - so couldn't possibly be viewed as a fair representation of the whole - not if you want to be honest.
Besides... Christians on this board are in an environment that is hostile toward them, and they feel the need to defend themselves and their religion against constant attacks. It's hard to blame them.

Ever hear a Christian say "OH, you are an Atheist, that's great!" Not if they take their beleif very serious.

How many Christians do you know on a personal basis?
I have known quite a few of them that take their faith very seriously, and still have no probelms with the belief systems of others.
There are, of course, others that do not - but that has less to do with how serious they are, than with who they are as a person,
You see very the same thing dealing with diffeences of race, politics, nationality or anything else that people can focus on as "Us" and "Them".

Some may even see you as possessed

Some people do and believe lots of things.
SOME poeple, however, take their religious conviction very seriously - whoel respecting the beliefs of others.
As for those who do not, it is a reflection of the person, not the religion.
It is much more of a social/cultural issue than it is a religious one.

Remember the Seinfeld episode when Elaine finds out her boyfriend Puddy is a born-again Christian and in response to Elaine telling Puddy she's not a Christian Puddy's reply is: "What do I care? You're the one going to hell" That's the nonchalant sort of Chrisitianess that has made America great.

Exactly.
It's more an America thing than a Christian thing.
People like to separate into groups and play "Us" against "Them".
That's exactly what you are doing right now, by painting all people who take religion seriously as "this".

Perhaps a fundamental Christian may take it upon themselves to convert Elaine or even stop dating her?

I wouldn't date a Fundamentalist Christian.
That does not mean I don't respect their right to their own belief systems.
It simply means that I know our value systems would be very different and incompatible (not to mention the idea of what happens when and if we have kids).
I fault no religion for not wanting their adherents to date outside the religion.
That doesn't mean they can't be friends. It doesn't mean they can't respect one another.

Make sense?

Not really, no.

 

[PonderuponThis]

What if part of your religous beleif states you must "spread the Good Word".


If, say, the religion itself condemns others? What if the religion itself is centered on a beleif that you MUST accept X Prophet or X God or X etc.. and if you do not then you will burn in Hell fire.

Couldn't taking such a religion too seriously be bad news for people who do not believe in X Prophet or X God or ect...?

How can one take a religion seriously that condemns non-believers but not condemn non-believes? That appears oxymoronic - doesn't it?


Do you think that a serious monotheistic person can accept that polytheism is a valid beleif system and not condemn it? (or visa versa?)

I've even asked moderate monotheists here if polytheism could even be a possibility and got a big fat resounding *silence* *diversion* *red-herring* etc... which is to say "NO"


I'm Atheist, but I'm not a millitant Atheist. I acknowledge that the possibility exists that Gods may exit; I just don't happen to believe they do. Yet, if I were a millitant Atheist perhaps I wouldn't. If I were in a position of power and a millitant Atheist perhaps things would be bad for non-Atheists!?!?!

BUT, if I were Atheist and didn't really think much about it - then I probably wouldn't give two craps if a person worshipped on long dead mythologized Prophet or God etc...

What do you think?
Michael

What if part of your religous beleif states you must "spread the Good Word".


If, say, the religion itself condemns others? What if the religion itself is centered on a beleif that you MUST accept X Prophet or X God or X etc.. and if you do not then you will burn in Hell fire.

Couldn't taking such a religion too seriously be bad news for people who do not believe in X Prophet or X God or ect...?


No religion does this. This is a minconception, and I will explaine why.
In Quran it is stated many times that Mohammed (pbuh) is the last and final messanger who performed miracles, prophicied, came with a criterea from the creator, guidence for mankind and much! much! more! said more or less, to worship God to obey his commands whether they be new or old, deal with each other justly, feed the poor, visit the sick, and be kind, humble, ect... actually a book could be written on this topic. In fact its called the Quran.
It is a guidance for mankind. To lead them out of the dark into the light. ok? So then... We have the commands inside Quran how do we apply these to our lives. We have the best of example Mohammed (pbuh)the best of mankind in character and in worship. We have so many authintic resouces compiled by companions of the Holy Prophets (pbuh) who were known for being a truthful people.We know well (or atleast should)what kind of cloths he wore, what kind of food he ate, when he ate, how he ate, what he said when he ate, exactly what prayers he performed, when, where, how, and why to pray them, and the list goes on.

ok so...
Quran states also that either you believe or disbelieve. Does not specificly say that you Must believe, and does not call for the death of a person or even a group of people for the simple fact that they disbelieve. This is my proof.


Quran 2-256
"Let there be no compulsion in this deen.(Way of life, belief system, or more commonly known as religion.)Truth stands clear in contrast to error. Whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold in which will never break. Allah hears and knows all.

Also Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him) comes from the line of the prophets. Means that his ancesters are prophets. ie.. Moses, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. May Allah shower mercy and blessings upon them all.

Read Quran Discover the Truth,
May Allah guide us all. ameen

 

[nova900]

I don't take ANY religion too seriously as from where I stand they ALL are shrouded in man created ignorance to some degree or another.By their very nature many religions are divisive and meant to exclude others.

I believe there is a spiritual truth to most religions but this is lost somewhat by all the corruption of the people involved in their formation...due to their human ignorance to separate and divide other people because of racist attitudes,social habits and customs of one group conflicting with another,etc.

The closest we will know about God/Afterlife in my humble opinion is the thousands of cases of Near Death Experiences as opposed to ancient texts written by largely unknown people. The overall pattern I see in NDEs' is the reference point I use to compare to the religions I have studied.

I have met some people that take their religions very seriously and still seem to respect other religous beliefs but most do not. They may be somewhat polite about others beliefs when asked about them but they still believe others are wrong.

 

[Grantywanty]

If you are not a complete believer, why would you subscribe to a religion at all?
I have never understood that.

I'd ask you if you are a complete believer in anything, thinking you would admit that you have your moments of doubt about most things, but then I remember our discussion about fear and your not having it, so I'll approach this as statements about me.

I don't know what I COMPLETELY believe in. I have official beliefs (I mean even in relation to myself they are official) but some days, some minutes I act think feel as if I believed something else. This includes beliefs related to politics, metaphysics, health, nutrition, relationships, men/women, those beliefs that often get listed under religions or supernatural headings, and so on.

There's an ebb and flow.

One example. I had a series of very strange experiences when I was a child. I am not even going to mention of what, this would be distracting. I don't think about these experiences all that often. When I do, if I spend some time going into the memories and feeling the feelings I had which increases the vividness, I become a believer in the existence of 'something'. I simply know. It is clear. I don't doubt. But if I hadn't thought about these experiences for a while and someone asked me: Do you believe in X? My answer would probably be more agnostic, or doubting believer.

I hope that that was clear.

 

[one_raven]

Grantywanty,

I suppose that's why I am not a member of any religion.