Reincarnation
- Thread starter starscream84
- Start date
Yes. It's not for me to say. Lie detectors aren't 100% reliable, but I would be interesting in testing them anyway.
Then they are just fooling themselves or trying to pull one over on everyone to get attention they need or want. People do strange things for attention and this reincarnation thing is just another way for them to do that.
I believe that they believe they are telling the truth.
I do not believe they are telling the truth.
It's up to them to provide the evidence that what they are saying is true.
I do not think that they are telling me what the truth is to me.
Of course they can do what they like, but it's not up to the critics to prove them wrong. If there is any debate, it's up to those who propose this outlandish thing to defend it with evidence.
You're the one instigating the debate.
They've proven their claim by issuing information.
If they are telling the truth, and you don't believe them,
what more would you like them to do?
jan.
WHAT REALLY HAPPENS AFTER WE DIE?
We die ‘little deaths’ all the time.
Our atoms change,
Some of our memories go away
And some new ones reappear,
Although we realize that it
Is the core of memories
That defines us as us.
It’s just that we are hardly
The same person now
As when we were much younger.
We had ‘death’ before birth, too,
And now there is life after birth.
Is there life only during life?
If one had amnesia and began
Learning the world anew,
Then one might say that
One as the previous person
Was ‘dead’ and that it is
Our new life that counts,
One not even missing the old one.
And, while the ‘big death’ is much more
Than any of these ‘little deaths’,
It is that our atoms may then go on
To reside in a new person eventually.
It’s not like there is any continuity of memory,
But more like that any narrative will do.
We die ‘little deaths’ all the time.
Our atoms change,
Some of our memories go away
And some new ones reappear,
Although we realize that it
Is the core of memories
That defines us as us.
It’s just that we are hardly
The same person now
As when we were much younger.
We had ‘death’ before birth, too,
And now there is life after birth.
Is there life only during life?
If one had amnesia and began
Learning the world anew,
Then one might say that
One as the previous person
Was ‘dead’ and that it is
Our new life that counts,
One not even missing the old one.
And, while the ‘big death’ is much more
Than any of these ‘little deaths’,
It is that our atoms may then go on
To reside in a new person eventually.
It’s not like there is any continuity of memory,
But more like that any narrative will do.
I'm not saying I don't believe them entirely. I would have to analyze the information they are giving. Historical details don't count, as they are part of the historical record, or they could not be confirmed.
Issuing information, by itself isn't proof of any kind.
I personally believe in reincarnation, but not the orthodox kind. My belief is based on Zen Buddhism which implies that the thing we think of as our own thought patterns are actually inherited from culture. And our bodies are based on ever recycling molecules. So, the body gets born again out of the mother, father and the food she eats, and that body's mind fills with the culture in which it finds itself.
NOW AND ZEN
Everything that is part of us—
Our cells, tissues, organs and organ systems—
Has come about over billions of years
Because it proved successful
In the great survival stakes
During our perilous evolutionary
Descent (ascent) with modification.
The brain, being no exception,
Evolved, in part,
To allow a creature to learn
From what happens in its life,
To retain key elements that
Could influence future actions.
We are geared for self-preservation.
We will do anything to avoid facing the possibility
That who we are now cannot continue.
We ourselves are mainly the cause
That we are interested in.
The self is preoccupied with staying alive,
Which is why our species is still around today.
It is a prime biological function to be afraid of death,
And, so, the self, as thus contrived,
Is able to fully play its crucial survival role.
We want to equip our brain with a soul
That offers us an escape when the brain dies
Since the self cannot come to terms
With its own extinction.
From a subjective standpoint,
We are all born equal and undifferentiated
(Before that, ‘we’ were dead),
But, as mature selves we make a distinction
Between the individual and the surroundings.
Still, the brain keeps changing throughout life,
In a pattern of the shifting flux of its neurons;
We gain and lose memories and feelings,
Essentially creating a new person over and over again.
The self is thus not so rock solid as it seems.
These moment-to-moment changes differ from death
Only in degree. In essence, they are identical,
Although at the opposite ends of the spectrum.
So, we are not static things.
Other neural networks will come to be in other,
Future people, albeit with an “amnesia”
Of what went on before in
The brains of the previous others.
Why should we be happy about this?
We never can be, because the ‘I’ cannot operate
Outside of its own boundaries.
The only viable alternative is to think of a way
In which it is possible to ever continue on.
What will it be like to be a part
Of someone else after we die,
With our own particular
Narrative of life cast aside?
That is the ‘zen’
Of now and then and when.
Everything that is part of us—
Our cells, tissues, organs and organ systems—
Has come about over billions of years
Because it proved successful
In the great survival stakes
During our perilous evolutionary
Descent (ascent) with modification.
The brain, being no exception,
Evolved, in part,
To allow a creature to learn
From what happens in its life,
To retain key elements that
Could influence future actions.
We are geared for self-preservation.
We will do anything to avoid facing the possibility
That who we are now cannot continue.
We ourselves are mainly the cause
That we are interested in.
The self is preoccupied with staying alive,
Which is why our species is still around today.
It is a prime biological function to be afraid of death,
And, so, the self, as thus contrived,
Is able to fully play its crucial survival role.
We want to equip our brain with a soul
That offers us an escape when the brain dies
Since the self cannot come to terms
With its own extinction.
From a subjective standpoint,
We are all born equal and undifferentiated
(Before that, ‘we’ were dead),
But, as mature selves we make a distinction
Between the individual and the surroundings.
Still, the brain keeps changing throughout life,
In a pattern of the shifting flux of its neurons;
We gain and lose memories and feelings,
Essentially creating a new person over and over again.
The self is thus not so rock solid as it seems.
These moment-to-moment changes differ from death
Only in degree. In essence, they are identical,
Although at the opposite ends of the spectrum.
So, we are not static things.
Other neural networks will come to be in other,
Future people, albeit with an “amnesia”
Of what went on before in
The brains of the previous others.
Why should we be happy about this?
We never can be, because the ‘I’ cannot operate
Outside of its own boundaries.
The only viable alternative is to think of a way
In which it is possible to ever continue on.
What will it be like to be a part
Of someone else after we die,
With our own particular
Narrative of life cast aside?
That is the ‘zen’
Of now and then and when.
They have not proven any truth. They have only told a story that they could have read about or just made up. So they can't back up anything they say with any proof other than what they say and that isn't truth, that's just their opinion on what they think.
a notion of reincarnation that sees human beings or indeed only this planet as the only living entities and environments in the cycle is necessarily absurd
No. I don't need evidence for my belief. Only evidence contrary to what I believe will sway me, for I have come to my opinion through logically assessing with what information and evidence we do have.
How about addressing some of those issues?
If someone told you they jumped over the widest part of the Nile, would you believe them?
They honestly believe they are telling the truth.
They've proven their claim by issuing information.
If they are telling the truth, and you don't believe them,
what more would you like them to do?
?
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