Redux: Rape, Abortion, and "Personhood"
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Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Bells is hardly as knowledgeable about U.S. history as we are.
Texas has the distinction of being the only state that has seceded from two countries. After a revolution that went back and forth for a few months, resulting in many of the epic chapters in Texas's history, most notably the rebels' defeat at the Alamo, Texas seceded from Mexico in 1836 and proclaimed itself an independent country.
This did not work out well. It was belatedly discovered that no one in Texas had the qualifications to be President, and the office was actually vacant for a while. Within a year many of its citizens were campaigning for annexation to the United States. There was staunch opposition to this in both countries, but in 1845 Texas finally became a U.S. state.
But then in 1861, after a mere 16 years as part of the USA, Texas joined with several other southeastern states in which the abomination of slavery was practiced, and seceded from its new country. There was considerable constitutional argument over whether any state had the right to secede, but President Lincoln pre-empted the discussion and simply sent troops to conquer the secessionists and reunite the country. The Civil War ended in 1865 and Texas was readmitted as a state in 1870, even though it had not met all the requirements set forth for readmission.
Americans have an almost compulsive ignorance of history, and eventually we forgot the fact that no one in Texas knows how to run a country. In my lifetime we have elected three Texans to the Presidency, and they have all been disasters. (Yes, Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act while his wife Ladybird, one of the most decent Americans who ever lived, held him in a hammerlock. But he also got us mired in Vietnam's civil war.)
Texas has gifted America with a lot of great music, but otherwise it's been a pain in the butt.
Something about blind squirrels...
Huffington Post
Hey, Texas doesn't always get it wrong...
You can practically hear the shouts this morning as folks all over the country wake up to - I can't believe I get to write this - some amazing news out of Texas.
The final hours of the fight against one of the most extreme anti-abortion laws in the country ended the way it all began: with a citizens' filibuster - albeit somewhat less official.
For eleven hours, State Senator Wendy Davis led a marathon filibuster while the whole nation watched. Opponents of women's health did everything they could to push her aside, and she held her ground to block a bill that could have shut down 37 of Texas' 42 providers of safe and legal abortion.
The final hours of the fight against one of the most extreme anti-abortion laws in the country ended the way it all began: with a citizens' filibuster - albeit somewhat less official.
For eleven hours, State Senator Wendy Davis led a marathon filibuster while the whole nation watched. Opponents of women's health did everything they could to push her aside, and she held her ground to block a bill that could have shut down 37 of Texas' 42 providers of safe and legal abortion.
Huffington Post
A Point of Light Amid a Polluted Darkness
Nature demands a certain amount of diversity, and Sen. Davis' deviation is an example.
That was one of the greatest political standoffs in recent American history, of such magnitude that Texas conservatives now describe public protests of public policy as terrorism.
Of course, after showing their true colors trying to subvert the filibuster attempt (there are a number of bizarre rules, including how much one is allowed to move around while speaking, and what constitutes a relevant consideration—e.g., the financial costs, public and private, of abortion prohibition are irrelevant, according to Texas Republicans, in the issue of abortion—of the issue at hand), violating their own procedures in trying to stage a vote after the session had ended, and eventually misreporting that vote in order to make it look like it had taken place a day earlier, they lost. And so Gov. Perry is demanding another special session in order to ram this bill through.
And then, of course, like all the other laws passed under this model, a federal court will crush it.
Rachel Maddow's segment on last night's show offered an awesome, dramatic, nail-biter, buzzer-beater narrative. It's pretty cool.
Randwolf said:
Nature demands a certain amount of diversity, and Sen. Davis' deviation is an example.
That was one of the greatest political standoffs in recent American history, of such magnitude that Texas conservatives now describe public protests of public policy as terrorism.
Of course, after showing their true colors trying to subvert the filibuster attempt (there are a number of bizarre rules, including how much one is allowed to move around while speaking, and what constitutes a relevant consideration—e.g., the financial costs, public and private, of abortion prohibition are irrelevant, according to Texas Republicans, in the issue of abortion—of the issue at hand), violating their own procedures in trying to stage a vote after the session had ended, and eventually misreporting that vote in order to make it look like it had taken place a day earlier, they lost. And so Gov. Perry is demanding another special session in order to ram this bill through.
And then, of course, like all the other laws passed under this model, a federal court will crush it.
Rachel Maddow's segment on last night's show offered an awesome, dramatic, nail-biter, buzzer-beater narrative. It's pretty cool.
Will Ohio Gov. Kasich veto restrictive abortion provisions in the state budget by tonight’s deadline?
This One Stings, and Will Be Remembered
You know, I think back to the '80s, when my political conscience was still in the construction process and all the right-wing warmongers used to say, "This is America, love it or leave it!"
Well, you know. Bullshit. No right-wing, half-wit turd is going to chase me out of what is promised to be the coolest thing in human history, the United States of America. These are my rights, and this is my country, too. God damn America if She ever chases me out.
Still, though, all that aside, it almost seems like a cruel joke, as if the conservatives are actually trying to make Americans ashamed of their country.
I stayed through the Bush years, and while I had plenty of other reasons to not pack up and seek Heaven on the Irish northwest coast, it is also true that our mad descent into whatever the hell it is we're doing now wasn't enough, either.
Still, though, Republicans are laboring at their best to chase everyone else out.
And let us be clear about the politics, given the thread we're in: Governor Kasich just signed into law a gag order against rape counseling facilities receiving public funds—oh, say, like at Ohio State University, which counts over sixty thousand college students.
Yes, that is right. If a woman is raped and seeks counseling at a facility that has received any public funds, that facility is forbidden from discussing or even acknowledging abortion.
Really.
Even if she's pregnant by the rape.
I keep thinking this American Guignol must stop at some point, that there is only so low we can go.
Whatever else I might have to say about the anti-abortion package in the state budget, this is ineffably beyond the pale.
You know, when someone asks me my favorite album, or movie, I have a hard time answering. I usually say there is no best, but a limited class of exemplary works. The same goes for the colloquial notion of the worst thing ever.
Is this the lowest thing ever? It feels like it. But worry not, my friends, next week, or next month—sometime before November, 2014, at least—the Republican Party and the American conservative movement in general will make this look like a minor offense, like putting your damn elbows on the fucking dinner table.
Still, though, this certainly makes that limited class of exemplary works.
Thus I might offer my congratulations to Governor Kasich and the Ohio Republican Party. I have no idea at this time how to answer for this American sickness.
Capracus said:
You know, I think back to the '80s, when my political conscience was still in the construction process and all the right-wing warmongers used to say, "This is America, love it or leave it!"
Well, you know. Bullshit. No right-wing, half-wit turd is going to chase me out of what is promised to be the coolest thing in human history, the United States of America. These are my rights, and this is my country, too. God damn America if She ever chases me out.
Still, though, all that aside, it almost seems like a cruel joke, as if the conservatives are actually trying to make Americans ashamed of their country.
I stayed through the Bush years, and while I had plenty of other reasons to not pack up and seek Heaven on the Irish northwest coast, it is also true that our mad descent into whatever the hell it is we're doing now wasn't enough, either.
Still, though, Republicans are laboring at their best to chase everyone else out.
And let us be clear about the politics, given the thread we're in: Governor Kasich just signed into law a gag order against rape counseling facilities receiving public funds—oh, say, like at Ohio State University, which counts over sixty thousand college students.
Yes, that is right. If a woman is raped and seeks counseling at a facility that has received any public funds, that facility is forbidden from discussing or even acknowledging abortion.
Really.
Even if she's pregnant by the rape.
I keep thinking this American Guignol must stop at some point, that there is only so low we can go.
Whatever else I might have to say about the anti-abortion package in the state budget, this is ineffably beyond the pale.
You know, when someone asks me my favorite album, or movie, I have a hard time answering. I usually say there is no best, but a limited class of exemplary works. The same goes for the colloquial notion of the worst thing ever.
Is this the lowest thing ever? It feels like it. But worry not, my friends, next week, or next month—sometime before November, 2014, at least—the Republican Party and the American conservative movement in general will make this look like a minor offense, like putting your damn elbows on the fucking dinner table.
Still, though, this certainly makes that limited class of exemplary works.
Thus I might offer my congratulations to Governor Kasich and the Ohio Republican Party. I have no idea at this time how to answer for this American sickness.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
The Holocaust. You're too young.
Slavery. Obliteration of the "heathen" Inca and Olmec/Maya/Aztec civilizations. We're all too young.
What did all of these atrocities have in common? The support of Christians.
Just curious Fraggle, is there a reason you omitted the atrocities against Native Americans? Or did you just forget?
Context and Such
Indeed, I can't imagine what it must have been like as the truth dawned on the larger public, but, to the other, I would also make the point that, well, that's Nazi Germany.
This is the United States of America. And, while certainly there are greater atrocities in our history, this is one of the ugliest things I've seen in our politics during my lifetime.
Fraggle Rocker said:
Indeed, I can't imagine what it must have been like as the truth dawned on the larger public, but, to the other, I would also make the point that, well, that's Nazi Germany.
This is the United States of America. And, while certainly there are greater atrocities in our history, this is one of the ugliest things I've seen in our politics during my lifetime.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
I let the Aztecs and Incas represent all Native Americans. Most modern people are more outraged by the destruction of a civilization than of a large number of humans. Not to mention, we're technology snobs so we relate more to the Native Americans in Mesoamerica and the Andes who had invented Bronze Age technology, than the ones in North America who were still using Paleolithic and Neolithic technology. Frankly, even I am in awe of the Olmecs, for building a civilization with no draft animals.
There's even been research on this topic because it's so counterintuitive. People really are more affected by the death of one person than of a large group. The reason seems to be something that I've harped on frequently: Our pack-social instinct. We're only a few hundred generations away from our Paleolithic ancestors so, deep down inside, we're still cavemen. In the Early Stone Age people lived in small extended-family groups, probably no more than one or two hundred, since that's about all the land could support without the nomadic hunter-gatherers having to split up into two different territories.
When there are only a few dozen of you, the death of one is a tragedy. You might live your entire life without ever seeing more than two or three people die at the same time. (Paleolithic tribes fought cruel battles over food during a dry year, but they didn't have to kill very many of each other's tribe before there was suddenly enough food for the survivors. Surely they killed us old folks first because we're weaker, and pretty close to a natural death anyway.)
So when we read about hundreds of people being killed in an avalanche, or thousands in a battle, our brains and emotions don't have the programming to deal with that. It's not personal, it's just "the news."
A few years ago one dog was abandoned on a burning ship in the middle of the Pacific. When Americans found out about it we lobbied our government so mercilessly that they finally gave in and sent out enough planes and ships to conquer New Zealand. Were those pilots and sailors ever relieved when they actually found the ship, which had miraculously not sunk, and the dog, who had spent the last three weeks eating the ship's stores.
One dog? Omigod, save him. A hundred million people? Wow, that's interesting. Is American Idol on yet?
So I think it catches more people to say that the Christian occupiers destroyed two entire civilizations, than to say that they killed a couple of hundred million people.
If you have Hupa or Navajo ancestors, I apologize for the unintentional slight.
Fighting Abortion with the Crucifix
The copper crucifix that is.
My wife’s been using one successfully for years, but when my 21 year old daughter asked her GP about an IUD she was advised against it until after a pregnancy. The recent rash of anti abortion legislation prompted me to review the current state of contraceptives and I was surprised to find that traditional concerns regarding IUDs appear to be unfounded. It seems the IUD may be a godsend to provide universal satisfaction in dealing with unwanted pregnancy and abortion.
IUDs, implants encouraged for teenage girls
Does Obamacare Mean The End Of The Pill?
The copper crucifix that is.
My wife’s been using one successfully for years, but when my 21 year old daughter asked her GP about an IUD she was advised against it until after a pregnancy. The recent rash of anti abortion legislation prompted me to review the current state of contraceptives and I was surprised to find that traditional concerns regarding IUDs appear to be unfounded. It seems the IUD may be a godsend to provide universal satisfaction in dealing with unwanted pregnancy and abortion.
IUDs, implants encouraged for teenage girls
Does Obamacare Mean The End Of The Pill?
And odd thing happened to me recently.
It's related to some of the issues I've mentioned previously, but...
My wife commented on a pro-choice blog and has subsequently been ridiculed for her position and accused of being a pro-life troll.
Why? Because she has moral and ethical issues with the "dry feet" policy. She's not pro life, and she certainly isn't religous she doesn't believe in life at conception, she just prefers to tread a middle road between third trimester abortions and life at conception. The comment she made was about pro-choice extremism. She made it because she, as I have suggested, regards the "dry feet" policy as being an extreme position. As a consequence of announcing this position she is now being openly mocked and they're doing an amazaingly efficient job of setting up straw-men and slaying them with comments like "Well I guess she considers masturbation and contraception murder then"? Well, no, her position is not one of pro life, it's a moderated approach to pro-choice. She supported free legalized abortion up to a certain scientifically supported gestational age and abortion after that age in unusual or extreme circumstances, for example, if continuing the pregnancy is putting the health of the fetus or mother at risk.
Stupidity, it seems, is unavoidable whenever there are people involved.
It's related to some of the issues I've mentioned previously, but...
My wife commented on a pro-choice blog and has subsequently been ridiculed for her position and accused of being a pro-life troll.
Why? Because she has moral and ethical issues with the "dry feet" policy. She's not pro life, and she certainly isn't religous she doesn't believe in life at conception, she just prefers to tread a middle road between third trimester abortions and life at conception. The comment she made was about pro-choice extremism. She made it because she, as I have suggested, regards the "dry feet" policy as being an extreme position. As a consequence of announcing this position she is now being openly mocked and they're doing an amazaingly efficient job of setting up straw-men and slaying them with comments like "Well I guess she considers masturbation and contraception murder then"? Well, no, her position is not one of pro life, it's a moderated approach to pro-choice. She supported free legalized abortion up to a certain scientifically supported gestational age and abortion after that age in unusual or extreme circumstances, for example, if continuing the pregnancy is putting the health of the fetus or mother at risk.
Stupidity, it seems, is unavoidable whenever there are people involved.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Actually it seems that it happened to her, not you. Unless she asks you for help, just stay out of it. This is a woman's issue and it should stay that way.
As my wife once said, "I'll give a flying fuck what men think about abortion, the first time one of you assholes gets pregnant."
I always thought it was strictly an American phenomenon.
I have been staying out of it, I've been supporting here when she's needed to vent and that's been about the extent of it. That and discussing my similar experiences both here and elsewhere.
Unfortunately, no. America won.I always thought it was strictly an American phenomenon.
They got to establish their global hegemony.
The only real competition it has is from the Islamic hegemony, but their still trying to get on their feet. I don't see much in the way of a chinese hegemony (yet).
Consequently 'Murica gets to foist their values on everybody else and invade those who won't co-operate.
Oops... My cynicism is showing. But those who don't believe me don't need to look any further than the movie industry. People complain all the time about how films are so 'Murica-centric, my response is usually "Well what did you expect? They're made in America, for America, by Americans."
Nothing Left To Say: I'm Sick of This Bullshit
Please tell Mrs. Fraggle that she can go diddle herself.
(1) I am happy to leave this to women, except the other side isn't. Women will lose without the support of men.
(2) I am the father of a daughter. Regardless of what Mrs. Fraggle might think of the implications of point one above, if she thinks I am going to abandon my daughter at the ballot box simply because abortion is a woman's issue, there is nothing polite to say to her.
I am sick of this trope. If my female counterparts in this world wish me to abandon them, I would be all to happy to leave them to the sexist misery Mrs. Fraggle advocates. However, I will not back down in defense of my daughter's humanity.
Please relate that sentiment to Mrs. Fraggle. And, yes, I am all too happy to tack on some profanity to that, if she needs.
I am most disappointed in her demand that men abandon their female associates. I have no respect for any woman who wishes that outcome. As far as I am concerned, Mrs. Fraggle will do a better service to society fertilizing daisies than telling men to ignore the affairs of our wives, sisters, daughters, and mothers. If she really wants us to stay out, she can go fuck herself.
Fraggle Rocker said:
Please tell Mrs. Fraggle that she can go diddle herself.
(1) I am happy to leave this to women, except the other side isn't. Women will lose without the support of men.
(2) I am the father of a daughter. Regardless of what Mrs. Fraggle might think of the implications of point one above, if she thinks I am going to abandon my daughter at the ballot box simply because abortion is a woman's issue, there is nothing polite to say to her.
I am sick of this trope. If my female counterparts in this world wish me to abandon them, I would be all to happy to leave them to the sexist misery Mrs. Fraggle advocates. However, I will not back down in defense of my daughter's humanity.
Please relate that sentiment to Mrs. Fraggle. And, yes, I am all too happy to tack on some profanity to that, if she needs.
I am most disappointed in her demand that men abandon their female associates. I have no respect for any woman who wishes that outcome. As far as I am concerned, Mrs. Fraggle will do a better service to society fertilizing daisies than telling men to ignore the affairs of our wives, sisters, daughters, and mothers. If she really wants us to stay out, she can go fuck herself.
I expect this is the point of the sentiment, however. In that regard I would be more than happy for all men to step out of the conversation.
The Put-On, the Sell-Out, and Fake Feminism
Indeed. But I'm not going to sell out my daughter, or any other woman in my life, just because some wannabe feminist somewhere demands.
You can always tell the fakes, because their (ahem!) "feminism" is designed to corner women and put them at the mercy of men. It's an eminence front.
Trippy said:
Indeed. But I'm not going to sell out my daughter, or any other woman in my life, just because some wannabe feminist somewhere demands.
You can always tell the fakes, because their (ahem!) "feminism" is designed to corner women and put them at the mercy of men. It's an eminence front.
I don't think that's neccessarily the point that Mrs Fraggle is making though.
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