re-EVOL-ve

iceaura said:
Since you have no idea what they are, you have no idea whether they might ever be explained by some clever researcher or mathematician.
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No... it can't. Because fundamentally the question will remain why the explanation works? That is if 'opposite attracts' and it is explained by 'because of their charge' - my question is why do they have a charge in the first place- if they can explain why it has a charge- because of 'electrons'- my question is why is there is a electron in the first place- you go back to the first thing- before which they can not prove anything- then my question is why is that first thing there anyways- You keep going down the road 'why'- and the answers will stop at the beginning- in other words everything can never be explained- also knowing that there are Uncertainty principles they can never explain everything- so we already know that everything can't be explained.

Meanwhile, we are nowhere near that on this thread. The level we are at here - emergence and development of life on earth - is easily and obviously within the realm of scientific investigation.
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This thread has nothing to do with life... the initial topic is over-- now we're in the realm of everything because the question is about God, and that doesn't stop with life- you may be confusing the 'God of Science' thread with this one- because over there we were talking about how life emerged-.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
God doesn't contradict science...
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It is these type of vacuous cult convictions that demonstrate the desperation of the deluded theist in trying to keep his god intact under the massive weight of cult doctrine contradictions and hypocrisies.


I'm talking about the very basic of basic things- why does everything- however minute (quanta?) it is work the way it does can never be explained because you can only explain to the point of the beginning, not before it because it practically and principally impossible.
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Never be explained? So, the fact that all the answers to the universe are not placed firmly on a silver platter for you to fondle immediately places your faith based solutions on solid ground?

Our understanding of God may be wrong which almost all theists claim that God can not be completely understood- But even if we change it it is just as you have changed your theory of evolution so many times.
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Your understanding of reality is wrong and your faith based reasoning is just a petty excuse for propping up a facade.
 
786 said:
This is an assumption based upon the knowledge we have about how some things are uncertain and appear to act 'randomly'- if the truth is contrary because God does not have the same limitations and that everything is controlled and that 'apparent' randomness can also be controlled then this argument is meaningless. You're comparing God with Humans- they're different things.



I don't follow the logic- if God created the universe and can manipulate it then he can change events- and the last part of your is coming from a deterministic perspective- there are inherent flaws with determinism- Laws can be deterministic but Humans can choose to determine and outcome using the laws to direct an outcome.

Peace be unto you ;)
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You are artificially setting up an entity that evades any logical deduction. That is intellectually dishonest.
 
spidergoat said:
You are artificially setting up an entity that evades any logical deduction. That is intellectually dishonest.
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And you are forcing an entity that otherwise can not be captured by logic in logical deductions.. not only that but you are imposing Human limitations on an entity that you nothing about....that is intellectual dishonesty...

Peace be unto you ;)
 
(Q) said:
Then, why do you bother? Just stick your nose back into your holy book and let the world pass you by.
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I would except Spidergoat believes he can disprove God logically... that is the discussion.... You should just get out of here because you're only here to spam...

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
you are imposing Human limitations on an entity that you nothing about....that is intellectual dishonesty...
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Are you intellectually honest with your "Human limitations" on an invisible entity you know nothing about?

We already know the answer to that one. :)
 
786 said:
And you are forcing an entity that otherwise can not be captured by logic in logical deductions.. not only that but you are imposing Human limitations on an entity that you nothing about....that is intellectual dishonesty...

Peace be unto you ;)
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The limitations are the ones discovered by science and supported by logic. There is no evidence for any such entity, and the efficacy of science proves itself every day with practical and useful results.
 
spidergoat said:
The limitations are the ones discovered by science and supported by logic. There is no evidence for any such entity, and the efficacy of science proves itself every day with practical and useful results.
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The limitations that science discovered are based upon Human limitation of the understanding of the universe.... such can not be said about an entity that otherwise could be limitless- the discussion is not that there is no evidence for such a specie but that there is no evidence against it.....science proves itself... it doesn't disprove something other-than itself.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
What evidence do you have that there is anything except the material? A limitless entity is logically inconsistent. Being everywhere, knowing everything, there is nothing for such an entity to do, so the concept in not consistent with the religious concept of a personal God that actively intervenes in events. There is, in fact, evidence that God does not design life. We have vestigal organs left over from previous forms. We have poor design choices (the backbone, the eye), we get diseases other animals do not.

There is nothing limitless except nothing.
 
spidergoat said:
What evidence do you have that there is anything except the material? A limitless entity is logically inconsistent. Being everywhere, knowing everything, there is nothing for such an entity to do, so the concept in not consistent with the religious concept of a personal God that actively intervenes in events. There is, in fact, evidence that God does not design life. We have vestigal organs left over from previous forms. We have poor design choices (the backbone, the eye), we get diseases other animals do not.

There is nothing limitless except nothing.
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Don't go in circles.... there is no way to disprove limitless entity- you can't just say it 'won't have anything to do' as if that was a requirement to exist.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
You are the one going in circles. You demand rigorous evidence for evolution and yet your proposed alternative is supported by none.
 
spidergoat said:
You are the one going in circles. You demand rigorous evidence for evolution and yet your proposed alternative is supported by none.
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the last word 'none' is correct- 'none' evidence one way or the other.... You said you could disprove God that wasn't me... I never claimed I can prove God or any of the sort....

As for Evolution.... I actually believe in it... you simply didn't understand what I was proposing... Science is not the only way to understand the world- if you add an extra assumption (this is unscientific) then you can change how everything works.- and that extra assumption gives you the reason to deny evolution.... The thread isn't about 'proving evolution wrong' but 'denying evolution'.

Anyways I understand you can't disprove God- end of discussion.

Peace be upon you ;)
 
I can give evidence why God is not a valid theory for the origins of life, and why God is not involved in guiding earthly events.
 
spidergoat said:
I can give evidence why God is not a valid theory for the origins of life, and why God is not involved in guiding earthly events.
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No... only evidence you can give is why evolution is right... you can't give evidence against God.... you could've given it already if you had it.... I don't want to continue is 'logic game' bs- because I know it is impossible.... If you can do it go write a book and make some money off of it :D

Peace be unto you ;)
 
There are already books. The evidence against God as the origin of life is the same as the evidence against intelligent design. I mentioned some of these, vestigal organs, inefficient design, the fact that 90% of all species that ever lived are extinct, the evidence in favor of variation and natural selection as opposed to a directed process...

You may still postulate a God that isn't involved in the world, but such a God is contrary to Islam and most other theisms.
 
spidergoat said:
There are already books. The evidence against God as the origin of life is the same as the evidence against intelligent design. I mentioned some of these, vestigal organs, inefficient design, the fact that 90% of all species that ever lived are extinct, the evidence in favor of variation and natural selection as opposed to a directed process...

You may still postulate a God that isn't involved in the world, but such a God is contrary to Islam and most other theisms.
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Now you want to interpret my religion for me :confused:
I'm done here...... Congrats on answering the original topic sufficiently well :thumbsup:

Peace be unto you :wave:
 
“ Originally Posted by spidergoat
The limitations are the ones discovered by science and supported by logic. There is no evidence for any such entity, and the efficacy of science proves itself every day with practical and useful results. ”

The limitations that science discovered are based upon Human limitation of the understanding of the universe.... such can not be said about an entity that otherwise could be limitless- the discussion is not that there is no evidence for such a specie but that there is no evidence against it.....science proves itself... it doesn't disprove something other-than itself.
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No one can prove or dis-prove god I agree.

Your suggesting that we should not deny the possibility of a god, fine. But are you, since you can not prove god exists either, denying the possibility that it does not exist.

So we are back to the starting point, now what is the evidence for each. Why would we throw out all of the evidence for evolution as to our reason fro being here and start throwing darts at the board for an alternative.

Since we don't know exactly how life started, should we make up an answer ?

I am not questioning you directly on this, I am questioning your premise that others should do this, not that they can or can't but should they ?
 
If God isn't involved in the world what's all that praying about? Sorry, the basic tenets of Islam are not a secret.
 
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