Rape: The Megathread

[shorty_37]

Aren't you the one who said her partner does not care if she is sleeping or unconscious when you are "off duty", during his 3 am attacks?

There is a difference Sam. He sometimes rolls over and attacks me at 3am. But I wake up!! If I actually say....Ok which isn't all the time. I am fully awake and know whats going on.

I have never been asleep during sex...I don't know how anybody could be.

 

[Bells]

Yeah well maybe mine wants to have sex all the time, and I can't keep up....hence the occasional nagging.

I take it you misunderstood where I said he does not need to nag for sex?

Yeah Yeah Bells......great I am glad you 2 are so happy. I think you sound rather stuffy and uptight.

Why? Because I don't discuss personal aspects of my sex life with my husband? Because I don't go into details and treat it as something special, shared between he and I? Because I don't divulge such information to a bunch of strangers on an internet forum?

 

[Kadark]

I would call it a really bad television show.

But what the hell are you going on about here?

Eat a dick, Tiassa. In that video, the ugly, spoiled skank was nagging the ogre for an expensive (12 G's!) ring, and it's considered "okay" by your hypocritical standards. However, if a guy nags a girl to have sex, he's automatically a "rapist". A rapist! That's an extremely serious accusation for such a miniscule "offense" (if you even want to call that an offense). Does a guy really deserve to serve a twenty-year jail term for nagging his wife to have sex? That's some ole' bullshit. Men are generally expected to buy women nice, shiny objects in return for sweet, sweet ass; such is the course of society. Don't you dare interfere with nature's wondrous processes, Tiassa.

Kadark the Savage

 

[shorty_37]

Why? Because I don't discuss personal aspects of my sex life with my husband? Because I don't go into details and treat it as something special, shared between he and I? Because I don't divulge such information to a bunch of strangers on an internet forum?

No...I have always had that opinion of you no matter what you are talking about.

 

[Bells]

No...I have always had that opinion of you no matter what you are talking about.

Of course. It's easy for many things I discuss or talk about to go right over your head. Dun' worry about it sweets.

Here.. have a cookie.

 

[S.A.M.]

Eat a dick, Tiassa. In that video, the ugly, spoiled skank was nagging the ogre for an expensive (12 G's!) ring, and it's considered "okay" by your hypocritical standards. However, if a guy nags a girl to have sex, he's automatically a "rapist". A rapist! That's an extremely serious accusation for such a miniscule "offense" (if you even want to call that an offense). Does a guy really deserve to serve a twenty-year jail term for nagging his wife to have sex? That's some ole' bullshit. Men are generally expected to buy women nice, shiny objects in return for sweet, sweet ass; such is the course of society. Don't you dare interfere with nature's wondrous processes, Tiassa.

Kadark the Savage

So tell me, who is the real sap in the video? The girl who thinks she is worth at least 12G or the guy who is buying a ring for a "promise"?

 

[Kadark]

So tell me, who is the real sap in the video? The girl who thinks she is worth at least 12G or the guy who is buying a ring for a "promise"?

Meh, the guy certainly is an idiot, but that doesn't make the girl any better of a person, does it? If a clever guy tricks a clueless girl into having sex with him, the girl is a sap for accepting; however, the guy's trickery shouldn't go about unnoticed, should it? It's merely a case of the clever exploiting the naive.

Kadark the Cruel

 

[James R]

ABS:

You really have forfeited any credibility in talking about the issue of rape.

You appear to have no views on the issue that you are able to defend with any logic.

I suggest you shut up and learn from your betters. Just read other people's posts instead of whining like a confused baby.

then why can you have sex with a 20 year old drunk girl when she is your girlfriend, but not with your sober 10 year old girlfriend?

Nobody at any point said that having sex with a girlfriend incapacitated by drink is acceptable.

Really, you can't actually be this stupid, can you?

Since we all know that alcohol returns your ability to consent to that of a child.

You say it, but you don't understand it yet, do you?

I mean the assumption is that if there is a 'relationship' status, then the consent is already there.

Oooh, no no no no no!

Warning, angrybellsprout: do not attempt to apply that philosophy in your own relationships or you will likely land yourself in deep trouble.

You may like to imagine you have some "right" to sex from your girlfriend (if you ever get one), but in fact you have no such right. There must always be consent.

I hope I have cleared that up for you. If I haven't, please go away and study up, because this will be important knowledge in your future dealings with other human beings.

So if Asguard can have sex with his unconcious partner, then why can't I?

Are you talking about a factual state of affairs here, or a legal issue? The legal fact is that neither Asguard, nor you, nor anybody else, can legally have sex with an unconscious person. If they do, and the unconscious person wants to have them charged with rape, they can do so quite legitimately.

I hope I have again cleared up any confusion on this issue for you.

Actually he has made multiple posts about how he has sex with his girlfriend while she is drunk to the point of not being able to consent, and even in this thread he has talked about how he has sex with her while she is unconcious. Though I guess that it isn't rape in either of those cases because...

Because she didn't say it was rape. She didn't complain to the police. She didn't want him prosecuted.

Clear yet?

So why can't someone turn around and say that it is fine to fuck a 10 year old because of the reasons specified by Asguard?

Because it is illegal and immoral.

Please quote where I stated that all women are leeches, and that I didn't just point out a societal norm (that the man exists to pay all their bills while they stay at home)...

Seriously, what century are you living in? You'll never get a girlfriend if you imagine that her role in life is to sit at home and bring you your beer when you get home from work.

Rape is what occurs when someone gives you both implicit and explicit consent after having a few drinks, or at least that appears to be the feminist standard from folks such as James, Tiassa, Bells and company.

That is a lie. None of us have ever said that, and you know it.

When you're losing an argument, you feel you have to resort to lies?

Grow up, angrybellsprout. Get some backbone.

I've had a few times where some nuts have made accusations against me...

Is that why you're an angry bell sprout?

Maybe now that you've been educated on appropriate sexual behaviour, you won't make boyish mistakes that will get you into trouble again. Let's all hope.

 

[Reiku]

What if a girl asks you to rape her? (Not drugged or intoxicated in any way)

Exactly!!!!!!!

One more thing... did not Eve take the apple>

 

[Randwolf]

Well, that was rather disorienting. Let's try it again...



Based on this suggestion from our good neighbor, Tiassa, I would like to discuss rape some more.

First, a reference:

“ Originally Posted by Randwolf

Sex without consent is wrong. What constitutes consent is a topic for debate. ”

“ Originally Posted by Tiassa
Strikingly, though, this aspect is never raised as a topic. There are at least a couple of reasons for this, though. On one side of the issue you have a number of people who consistently explain boundaries and don't seem to have much of an objection to them. We might consider the wording of a particular expression, or make certain points about a source author or transference from one individual to an entire movement, but by and large we appear to understand a bit more about the social and psychological issues accompanying rape than certain others. And those others are, as you might expect, on the other side of the issue, and seem to be arguing desperately from a perspective of whatever it takes to improve their chances of getting laid without going to jail. These don't want to explore the issue without finding some way to attack feminism or complain about injustice against men. These are the ones who post topics as responses to individuals, attempting to disguise their anger as some sort of intelligent response to something allegedly obscure and confusing. The reality, however, is that this side of the issue tends to argue as if they have no human sympathy or empathy, no compassion for their fellow human beings, and seem utterly and completely invested in themselves. Maybe it's hard to figure out when you're a teenager surrounded by a bunch of wide-eyed idiot dorks who actually believe that her eyes will say yes while her mouth says no. But when you grow up and actually take a moment to think through it, and once you have a little more experience with sexual relations, the whole situation should become a little more clear. And if it doesn't, you're still doing it wrong. There is nothing at all—to use a repeatedly-considered example from these discussions of late—about Asguard's situation with his partner that is confusing. Perhaps their relationship will eventually decline to the point that his permission is revoked; if he can't figure that out when it happens ... well, other people in this world have been sent up for criminal ignorance. It would be unfortunate, and may well be exploitative, but men have known the rules since boyhood, when they stood nose to nose in the schoolyard, trying to look tough, and saying, "Go ahead. Throw the first punch."

So unless we are expected to believe that such a number of our Sciforums neighbors are so warped by their upbringing that such simple and commonplace arguments like right and wrong, honor among thieves, walking the line, pushing the rules, and falling flat on our faces are foreign to them, it would probably do the "confused" or "we're not advocating rape and violence against women, why do you think that we are?" crowd to address a real question in good faith. Otherwise, a lot of people are just going to shrug and make a note that if there is ever a Sciforums convention, get-together, or meet-up, we at least know some of the people we need to keep our children away from.

Seriously, if there is an honest inquiry afoot by the anti-feminist crowd, it's not apparent. What constitutes consent? How hard is it to ask the question without setting up all manner of diversion about "femtrolling" or "copypasta", or Bells, or Tiassa, or anything else? What the hell is so goddamned hard about asking the question that is so important that you'll hammer away at it in topic after topic, complain that it doesn't get asked, but is too much to ask that you post it in good faith ”

Let's go with this.

When does consent explicitly exist? Is this consent defensible?

When, if ever, does consent implicitly exist? Is this consent defensible?


Let's take the example of someone who has been drinking. This has been debated heatedly here on SF in a number of threads. Can someone consent if they are inebriated? How inebriated? Is this like drunk driving, in the sense that you can consent until your blood alcohol reaches .05, or .08, or some other arbitrary number? But after that point, your sexual partner is guilty of rape?


Another example, one that has long intrigued me. Statutory rape, in the event of two teenagers. Today, they can consent to have sex, legally. Tomorrow, one of the partners turns 18 (or whatever the applicable age is) Now, the younger partner can not consent. The older partner is guilty of rape by definition.



I understand that laws have to be written somehow, and will always be somewhat arbitrary. But maybe society can do better. If the comments on some other threads are at all representative, the views on these issues are extremely polarized. What do you think? Can we improve the status quo? Are we going forwards or backwards here?



Perhaps before we even discuss these issues, maybe a definition is in order. What exactly is rape, anyway? We seem to have the preconception that we are all talking about the same thing when we speak of "rape". Are we?

 

[James R]

Kadark:

ABS:

You really have forfeited any credibility in talking about the issue of rape.

You appear to have no views on the issue that you are able to defend with any logic.

I suggest you shut up and learn from your betters. Just read other people's posts instead of whining like a confused baby.

 

[Randwolf]

I think the list is confused, alot of the scenarios are immoral and or manipulative, only a few of them I would consider true rape.

peace.

What, exactly, is "true" rape? I would like to see potential definitions. I think maybe a lot of the frustration lies with the very definition. What is your's?

 

[shorty_37]

Of course. It's easy for many things I discuss or talk about to go right over your head. Dun' worry about it sweets.

Here.. have a cookie.

Well in all honesty maybe I am missing a lot of what you are saying because I don't get finished reading it all before yawning. I usually just skim it looking for things that may stand out. The problem is it seems like you keep saying the same thing over and over in each post, as they get longer and longer.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

So again, who is saying that women are somehow held to a different standard? Rape is illegal regardless of your sex. If someone (again, regardless of their sex) is incapacitated and in no position to consent, and someone, then yes, it can be construed as being rape. Again, this applies to both males and females. Where is the sexism there? Is it sexist that the law applies to both sexes equally? Is that what you're saying?

This is just one example I can give so obviously it does not apply as a general rule but anyway, I was at a party ages ago (we was outside) and one of my friends was telling a story infront of like 30 people male and female, long story short he was sleeping and this girl was giving him a blowjob and touching him up without him knowing and he woke up while she was doing it to him.

Nobody took it seriously (these are all adults present not kids or tenagers) not one person was saying to him how they feel bad for him everybody was making jokes about it, most of the women just laughed, or said things like "lucky you" the men were making jokes but more dirty and rude than that.

So from that experience I just don't get the impression it is seen equaly, where if a woman was in the same situation people would not act as if it was funny. I don't think people find it that bad if women touch men or sexualy assualt them, most male police officers would most likely laugh about it aswell.


It is seen as something to joke about when a woman comes onto a man, or does something innapropriate. I personaly don't find it funny and i would be violent if it happened to me.



peace.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

What, exactly, is "true" rape? I would like to see potential definitions. I think maybe a lot of the frustration lies with the very definition. What is your's?

Well I would use the definition that is in the oxford dictionary as that is our standard for the english language regarding word meanings.


why don't you look it up and post it, I will after I finish eating if you dont get to it first.

My personal interpretation of the word is that rape is "forcing somebody to have sex against there will, either by using physical forced entry, or threaterning them with physical actions if they do not comply".

but i usualy like to use the actual definition of the word, because thats why we have different words with definate meanings which are precise. or I could go calling sexual assault, sexual harrassment, when they clearly have 2 meanings.


peace.

 

[Kadark]

Well in all honesty maybe I am missing a lot of what you are saying because I don't get finished reading it all before yawning. I usually just skim it looking for things that may stand out. The problem is it seems like you keep saying the same thing over and over in each post, as they get longer and longer.

Yeah, that's their strategy: bore you into submission with endless text. By the way, the urge to tell James R to "eat a dick" is overwhelmingly strong right now. I'm not entirely sure why everybody's hating on me, though; I'm just trying to turn hoes into housewives, y'know?

Kadark the Warlord

 

[Bells]

What, exactly, is "true" rape? I would like to see potential definitions. I think maybe a lot of the frustration lies with the very definition. What is your's?

I'll make it simple for you. Rape is sexual intercourse and/or the penetration of another without the other's consent. In some countries, penetration can be with finger(s), tongue, objects (eg. bottles), penis, etc.

There is no "true rape". Rape is rape, full stop. You can't say 'well that is a true rape and that one over there is a sort of rape'.

 

[Asguard]

i think that term is used to distinguish it from STATITORY rape bells

I cant really blame them for that, statitory rape varies from state to state and if you live on the border its possable you could be commiting rape on one side and be fine on the other

The laws are a mess

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I'm just trying to turn hoes into housewives, y'know?

Kadark the Warlord

Didn't you listen to Dr Dre?

peace.

 

[angrybellsprout]

I think the greater majority of your posts speaks volumes.

Looks like you have no proof, just fantasies and smears.

What "standard"? To not rape another individual? It is just as illegal for a man to rape a woman as it is for a woman to rape a man.

So again, who is saying that women are somehow held to a different standard? Rape is illegal regardless of your sex. If someone (again, regardless of their sex) is incapacitated and in no position to consent, and someone, then yes, it can be construed as being rape. Again, this applies to both males and females. Where is the sexism there? Is it sexist that the law applies to both sexes equally? Is that what you're saying?

Tell it to the men who are equally drunk as the women that they are having sex with that get branded as rapists. I guess that is what you mean by the law applying to both sexes equally.

Tell it to all the men who get smeared under false allegations and the basic legal philosophy of guilty till proven innocent.

The law may be written with equal regards to the sexes, though some places still have the penetration requirement for rape, but that doesn't mean that it is in any way applied equally.