Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
"The image is more than an idea. It is a vortex or cluster of fused ideas and is endowed with energy."---Ezra Pound
Quotes to remember
- Thread starter wegs
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
It is a "pattern".....
It is a "pattern".....
Image is an observation of the without .
Image and within .
Image is a pattern . Based on the Physical Reality . Without " patterns " there can be no stable Physical Universe . Therefore Inherent in all Physical Objects are Patterns . No Galaxy , Quasar , Stars could Exist Without Patterns .
These Patterns are Because of the Physical Real Interactions between Real Physical Things .
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Because of the mathematical nature of the physical interactions between "patterns" in reality. Reality itself consist of patterns of various densities.
" Order from Chaos" (identified and described by humans in Chaos theory)
To the highlighted
You have not proven this . Prove that without the Physical Reality referred to , that mathematics can even Exist ,
Never mind " Because of mathematics " .
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
No, its more fundamental. Without mathematics (Logic) nothing could exists except as a permanent state of chaos.
We did not invent self-ordering. The inherent mathematical essence (values and functions) of nature allows for the self-ordering of logical patterns.
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"Vulgus vult decepi - the (common) people wish to be deceived."
- Phaedrus
- Phaedrus
"There is, however, a certain peculiarity in the essence of beauty, a peculiarity in the status of art: namely, the convincingness of a true work of art is completely irrefutable and it forces even an opposing heart to surrender. It is possible to compose an outwardly smooth and elegant political speech, a headstrong article, a social program, or a philosophical system on the basis of both a mistake and a lie. What is hidden, what distorted, will not immediately become obvious."
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Without mathematics (Logic) nothing could exists
Seriously??? You are not related to Tegmark per chance?
........ except as a permanent state of chaos
Try - except as a state FULL STOP
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
No.... I am referring to Logic. But I have no doubt Tegmark uses Logic as an argument in favor of his mathematical universe.
OK, edit,
OK, now, in addition to not being mathematical, you are proposing the universe is not Logical?Try - except as a state FULL STOP
Quantum Logic in Historical and Philosophical Perspective
https://iep.utm.edu/qu-logic/#H1
Correct
The Universe is what it is
I keep trying and trying and trying to explain
DON'T ANTHROPOMORPHIS THE UNIVERSE
Something along the lines of
From our observations the Universe APPEARS to have patterns
These seem to be the result of physics which can only mix and fit the building blocks of the Universe together in a fixed number of combinations
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Apparently you are unable to separate objective observation of universal truths (regularities) from the subjective human symbolic descriptions of universal truths (regularities).Correct
The Universe is what it is
I keep trying and trying and trying to explain
DON'T ANTHROPOMORPHIS THE UNIVERSE
Something along the lines of
From our observations the Universe APPEARS to have patterns
These seem to be the result of physics which can only mix and fit the building blocks of the Universe together in a fixed number of combinations
By your standards of ANTHROPOMORPHIZATION no objective discussion is possible because we shall always be forced to use human symbolic language, even if it describes Truth in Nature.
The moment you cite ANTHROPOMORPHIZATION, all symbolic conversation stops and we are left only with physical demonstration and repetition.
Fortunately we are able to do that, but perhaps you may object to human demonstration of a naturally occurring phenomenon, by claiming that humans ANTHROPOMORPHIZE the demonstration of natural phenomena merely by performing it.
What is the use of discussing any science? There are no natural truths,right?
At least none that can be symbolized.
Stuff is Stuff and stuff works in mysterious ways which are indescribable with human symbolic language. (where have I heard that before?)
Any representation of Nature is ALWAYS ANTHROPOMORPHIZED, right?
FULL STOP OF SCIENCE!
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Sorry Michael, you are getting all mystical on me now.
From our observation Humans appear to be alive, but don't bet on it. Human experience of appearances are often wrong. Optical illusions are a wonderful example to prove your point, no?
ANTHROPOMORPHIZED words always fail when trying to prove anything natural.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
“When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Actually we can prove there are patterns. You want to argue against Universal Geometry?
These patterns appear to self-order from testing observation. And yes, that's why it is a quasi -intelligent property of spacetime. It is a self-ordering system into mathematically emergent regular patterns. It does so stochastically, but on the surface its regularity and predictability appears to be a form of intelligence, i.e. (the inspiration for ID)
IMO, a quasi-intelligent function is a perfectly appropriate analogy as it does not imply "intent" or "motive", but presents an "appearance of....."
- ..........
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
"When many people share the same controlled hallucination, we call it Reality". Anil Seth
Proving what you have defined is easy
I defined my rubbish bin as a dog
My dog now takes all my rubbish
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
That seems to prove quite another proposition....Proving what you have defined is easy
I defined my rubbish bin as a dog
My dog now takes all my rubbish