Questions on atheist morality

[phlogistician]

Atheism is about the individual, religion is about building a society and a community.

Religion is about some individuals gaining power in the religious hierarchy, taking tithes off the masses, becoming wealthy, and generally not doing any hard work. Religion is about individuals feeling pious and better than other people, it appeals to their ego. Religion gives people forgiveness when they sin, and boy, do the religious sin just as much as anybody.

The reason for morals and ethics has no place in atheism except as a function of living in society. Hence the responses in this thread.

Atheism does not discuss morals, because atheism is a very simple idea; simply a lack of belief in god, no more. Societies create religions, which is why religions are concentrated in geographic regions. To imply that religion helps build societies is rather putting the cart before the horse.

Anyway SAM these flaccid stabs at atheism are getting rathe tiresome. After all your time here, I'd have thought the simple definition of atheism would have dawned on you by now, but seemingly not.

 

[Imperfectionist]

it's more likely they were exterminated by all the religious nutjobs living on there borders, it is easy for these religious nutjobs to conquer a peace loving people,(bow to our gods or die) dont you think. If that civilisation was allowed to continue, what a wonderful place it would be, the Eutopia of myth. But sadly the religious dont want that now. they would rather die first and spend it with the imaginary god. What a place this planet could be, if it wasn't for all these religious nutjobs.

Note the implication of sam's statement. The measure of ethics is wether your culture survives. What if it does this by being unethical to disbelievers? What if her example of an atheist culture was wiped out by the more ruthless theists? In fact theist literature gives examples of this.

More importantly, where do the ethical systems of religion come from? Most people don't reinvent their religion, so they must rely on the revelations of others, which means their morality and ethical system is simply passed down by tradition, in which case she is arguing only that traditional systems are better than ones that require you to think about it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Correction. Atheism is about not accepting a particular assertion as true. Technically, it is only incompatible with religions that issue 'God' assertions. Of course most atheists tend to not accept anything as true concerning paranormal claims, so there are very few religions that could fit the bill.

Also, I don't agree that religion is about building society and community. While it is a set of methods for human relationship, it often makes untrue assertions (lies), promotes destructive behavior, and is difficult to adapt.

Fix those issues and it might actually become a good thing.

Atheism is a belief that there is no God. Anything else is just cosmetics. As a negative belief, it takes away from the individual rather than offering anything to the community. All religions have established societies and social orders, while atheists even today are consistently obsessed with personal rights, taxes and responsibilities. They do not, as athiests, have anything to offer in terms of ethics or social order to the community. But they play a valuable role as whingers, though one can have too much of a good thing.

For any person to travel anywhere in the world and meet a Christian, a Muslim or a Parsi, is to meet the member of a group. To meet an atheist, is to meet an unknown.

it's more likely they were exterminated by all the religious nutjobs living on there borders, it is easy for these religious nutjobs to conquer a peace loving people,(bow to our gods or die) dont you think. If that civilisation was allowed to continue, what a wonderful place it would be, the Eutopia of myth. But sadly the religious dont want that now. they would rather die first and spend it with the imaginary god. What a place this planet could be, if it wasn't for all these religious nutjobs.

Atheists have always existed and had a voice in Indian society. There is no stigma attached to atheism. So your assertions are completely false.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism

Hence, your fallacious assertions, which is what the responses are referring.

Your valuable contributions to the discussion are appreciated.

 

[(Q)]

Your valuable contributions to the discussion are appreciated.

It's too bad yours are not.

 

[phlogistician]

Atheism is a belief that there is no God. .

Like I said, all your time here, and you STILL get this wrong.

You are an atheist too, unless you have faith in every god ever imagined.

 

[Imperfectionist]

They do not, as athiests, have anything to offer in terms of ethics or social order to the community.

How about an ethical system based on reason and dialogue instead of blind faith?

 

[Cris]

SAM,

For any person to travel anywhere in the world and meet a Christian, a Muslim or a Parsi, is to meet the member of a group. To meet an atheist, is to meet an unknown.

Yup - pretty much. And hence my continual reminder that you cannot make any statements about an atheist or atheists as a group apart from their disbelief, or if you prefer their belief of non-existence.

How an atheist behaves or what other values he/she holds cannot be determined by their atheism. This is fundamentally different to religious groups whose entire behavior is MEANT to follow detailed rules. There is no atheist equivalent.

If you want to know what moral code or what else he /she believes then you must ask each individual and you may get millions of different and potentially conflicting answers.

What you cannot do is draw a conclusion about their moral outlook simply because they are atheistic. For example an atheist might find all the moral concepts as presented by Christianity as a perfect guide to life and choose to follow those guideline except he/she doesn't believe that that God exists.

 

[S.A.M.]

SAM,

Yup - pretty much.

Thats my stand too. Hence this thread to ask atheists what their moral precepts are based on. Not surprisingly, morality itself itself is a fluid concept among atheists.

How about an ethical system based on reason and dialogue instead of blind faith?

Assuming we can decide on a self evident definition of morality to begin with.

 

[Imperfectionist]

So if an atheist can't define morality... we just need to shut up and accept religious dictates about it?

 

[S.A.M.]

So if an atheist can't define morality... we just need to shut up and accept religious dictates about it?

No we do not consider your inability to come up with a social order (which includes all social institutions) of your own, stand in the way of contributing to an existing one.

 

[iceaura]

For any person to travel anywhere in the world and meet a Christian, a Muslim or a Parsi, is to meet the member of a group. To meet an atheist, is to meet an unknown.

Hold that thought. It is significant, especially for you.

Hence this thread to ask atheists what their moral precepts are based on.

And you've been answered: on the same human nature and wise reasoning theist moral principles are based on.

No we do not consider your inability to come up with a social order (which includes all social institutions) of your own, stand in the way of contributing to an existing one.

You have been directed to hundreds of examples of atheistic social orders - entire societies without a morality-bequeathing Deity anywhere in sight.

Heavily armed and numerous theists destroyed most of them recently, but the remnants and records are still around.

 

[S.A.M.]

Hold that thought. It is significant, especially for you.
And you've been answered: on the same human nature and wise reasoning theist moral principles are based on.
You have been directed to hundreds of examples of atheistic social orders - entire societies without a morality-bequeathing Deity anywhere in sight.

Heavily armed and numerous theists destroyed most of them recently, but the remnants and records are still around.

Why are atheists so reluctant to give religion its due for social order and institutions, I wonder? Without the benefit of organised religion and its contributions to education and social order, where would they be?

 

[Varda]

Why are atheists so reluctant to give religion its due for social order and institutions, I wonder? Without the benefit of organised religion and its contributions to education and social order, where would they be?

I think it's religion that needs to stop claiming all the credit for that.

Shall we compare majorly atheistic countries and majorly religious contries for social order and institutions?

 

[Enmos]

Why are atheists so reluctant to give religion its due for social order and institutions, I wonder? Without the benefit of organised religion and its contributions to education and social order, where would they be?

Same place were are now. Those values are not solely religious.

 

[Imperfectionist]

Why are atheists so reluctant to give religion its due for social order and institutions, I wonder? Without the benefit of organised religion and its contributions to education and social order, where would they be?

Social order and institutions can exist without the phoney backround of the supernatural, just like judges can exist without powdered wigs.

 

[S.A.M.]

Social order and institutions can exist without the phoney backround of the supernatural, just like judges can exist without powdered wigs.

But they haven't so far. Even officially atheist countries have run out of ideas after the nominal "destroy religion" campaigns.

 

[Imperfectionist]

I guess you haven't heard of the Enlightenment. It's only been around since the 18th century.

 

[S.A.M.]

I guess you haven't heard of the Enlightenment. It's only been around since the 18th century.

Must have missed it between the world wars the holocaust and the implementation of global poverty as an economic system.

 

[Imperfectionist]

I guess that's why life expectancy has risen by 20-30 years since then.

 

[Varda]

Must have missed it between the world wars the holocaust and the implementation of global poverty as an economic system.

you have a serious focus problem

are you saying religion keeps people from killing and exploiting eachother?
if your answer is no, don't bring this up again