Question for Atheists

Muslims and Islam has been in Europe for longer than America existed. American culture is more prevalent in Europe than Islamic culture is. What exactly does that tell you?

And welfare state? Perhaps you should stop imposing your American ideology on other countries.

Immigration is controlled. Just ask the Roma in France about that..

The majority of migrants to France, for example, are from European block countries. Those from African countries, even Islamic ones, are French speakers with deep French ties which affected their birth country's cultures, language and way of life, politics, through French colonisation in the past. The French were prevalent. Having been born in a former French and then English colony, not only is the French language still dominant, so is everything about their culture, from their language, history, architecture and customs. It is still much more influential than the English influence that should have naturally followed through after they took over. So I find it bizarre that anyone could claim that Muslims coming from former French colonies, and that is where the majority of Muslims coming to France at least, come from, pose a threat to a culture they have been exposed to and have lived with all of their lives.
 
Being in a French speaking colony is not at all the same as living in France. By welfare state, I'm not espousing some right wing ideology, I'm just saying our capitalist system won't be here forever. And then what?
 
No? My family migrated to France for a couple of years. Slotted right in, the only thing that felt different was the weather. The architecture was the same, the language was the same. So was the attitude and way of life. The influence of the French on their colonies was immense.

As I noted above, the majority of migration into France, for example, stems from other European countries. The bulk of it is from their neighbouring and poorer countries. Which is not surprising when you consider that the EU has what can be considered an open border policy with EU member countries for their workers to come and go freely.. European culture is influenced by individual European countries, the many countries so many colonised and invaded in the past and continue to be deeply involved in and also by lesser migrants from other countries. The biggest threat to "European culture" whatever that means, since the culture in Germany, for example, is no where near the same as the culture in Spain or Italy, to name a few, stems from the EU's policies of open borders for EU citizens, for example.

As I have noted, this thread is not so much about a culture as it is about colour..
 
The point is, spidergoat, is that an Algerian Muslim will integrate better in French society than someone from Spain.

You also missed the fact that this thread was started by a white supremacist..

Far right neo-nazi groups pose a bigger threat to European countries stability and culture than possibly any other group in Europe.
 
The purpose of this thread is to pose a simple question: "If you woke up one day and found yourself in a situation where you were being given a choice to convert to islam or die, which would you choose?"

That's it.
So, as an atheist, which would YOU choose?
 
Photizo said:
The purpose of this thread is to pose a simple question: "If you woke up one day and found yourself in a situation where you were being given a choice to convert to islam or die, which would you choose?"

That's it.
So, as an atheist, which would YOU choose?
Click to expand...

No that is not it. This purpose is to attack Islam and assert your own private religious views as you frequently do. How many times have you been admonished or banned for preaching? Clearly not enough.

If it were not your intention to attack Islam, you would have said: If you woke up one day and found yourself in a situation where you were being given a choice to adopt some religion or die, which would you choose?

And the answer is simple. No one can force you to believe anything. If you want to pretend to be Christian fundamentalist, in order to get a meal at a church sponsored soup kitchen, or a loan from a banker who is professing fundamentalism, then it's very easy to say "Praise Jesus. I was reborn last year." while thinking "you stupid ignorant hillbilly. Give me what I need so I can be on my way."

And of course that's what people in the US have historically been subjected to: to bow to some idiot's belief in order to get something done. Imagine what it was like for non-Christians drafted into military service when the chaplaincy only served Protestant or perhaps Catholic religions. And in those days you would be shot for desertion. And how about the recent Supreme Court decision allowing companies to impose their religious beliefs on employees (women who need insurance to cover abortions). So who the hell do you really think you are kidding with this thinly veiled rewording of your actual question: doesn't my fundamentalism rule, and doesn't Islam drool?

Obviously, since your religion is based in being sanctimonious, it is seriously flawed.
 
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Photizo said:
Thanks for your answer, Bells.



Consider this: http://www.christianpost.com/news/islam-is-neither-a-religion-nor-peaceful-131779/

I'm of the opinion that Islam is primarily a political/legal system.
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That's because you are ignorant of the religion, the people, the cultures and the history. Otherwise you would regard them as diverse human beings, just as gentle and decent as innocent children you see playing on the playground, or just as mean and ignorant as the implied persona you are projecting here. They are people, nothing more, nothing less. They come from all over the world, so not matter how many ways you try to stereotype them, you are only displaying your bigotry, your ignorance of who they actually are, and your hatred of this perceived threat (xenophobia).

And no, I will not read a link from more hypocrites hating on other people as a pretense for shoring up their own sanctimonious bullshit.
 
Photizo said:
No one is attacking Islam. A question is posed to you--which you haven't answered yet.
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Yes I did. I said if I wanted to eat at your Bible thumping soup kitchen, and my life depended on it, I would say "Praise Jesus. I was reborn last year" while trashing you under my breath. I also answered that you have cast this as an attack on Islam by embedding into the question the assumption that Muslims are the perpetrators of the hypothetical crime. That's my answer, dude, that and my repudiation of all of the meanness and ignorance that fuels the attacks of one religion upon another.

In case you haven't figured it out, you can't force me to believe anything. At the moment that's all that matters, since I am not being accosted by Muslims.
 
Aqueous Id said:
No that is not it. This purpose is to attack Islam and assert your own private religious views as you frequently do. How many times have you been admonished or banned for preaching? Clearly not enough.

If it were not your intention to attack Islam, you would have said: If you woke up one day and found yourself in a situation where you were being given a choice to adopt some religion or die, which would you choose?....
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Which other religions are forcing people to convert or die on the spot?
 
Aqueous Id said:
Yes I did. I said if I wanted to eat at your Bible thumping soup kitchen, and my life depended on it, I would say "Praise Jesus. I was reborn last year" while trashing you under my breath.
Click to expand...

That's answering your question not mine. This is the question posed to you, as an atheist: If you woke up one day and found yourself in a situation where you were being given a choice to convert to islam or die, which would you choose?
 
Photizo said:
I'm of the opinion that Islam is primarily a political/legal system.
Click to expand...

One of the mistakes that many in the West make is imagining Islam as if it is essentially the same kind of thing that Christianity is today in Europe, the Americas and Australia. In other words, they imagine it as personal faith, as a private matter for individuals in the privacy of their own lives, something to be kept behind closed doors.

While Islam obviously does involve the dimension of personal faith, it's always been something else as well. From its inception, Islam has been a complete system of personal faith and public behavior, revealed by God himself, eternal and unchangeable for all time. Islam makes no distinction between the religious sphere and the rest of what Westerners think of as secular life.

Throughout history, the Islamic ideal has been centered on the establishment of a divinely ordained social order. The Muslim calendar begins with the establishment of that order for the first time in Medina. A large part of the subsequent elaboration of the Muslim religion has taken the form of legal scholarship, forming the vast corpus of Islamic Law (Shariah) intended to govern all aspects of life. The people that the Western media refer to as 'Islamic clerics' are often Islamic jurists, those who interpret Islamic law and make legal rulings (fatwas).
 
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Photizo said:
That's answering your question not mine.
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No, I am answering your question, with answers you refuse to listen to, because you are blinded by nonsense, ignorance and hatred.

This is the question posed to you, as an atheist: If you woke up one day and found yourself in a situation where you were being given a choice to convert to islam or die, which would you choose?
Click to expand...
And I repeat: this is an invalid question. There is no such thing as coerced conversion. The people who are being forced to convert will never adopt the beliefs of their overlords. They will do whatever they can to distance themselves from them and their atrocities. The is no such thing as "a choice to convert". There are people who will do what they are told, but never will they think what they are told to think.

I would never convert, but I would never die for ideological reasons. I would die for irrational reasons, like wanting to defend the vulnerable victims who are unable to defend themselves.
 
Aqueous Id said:
No, I am answering your question, with answers you refuse to listen to, because you are blinded by nonsense, ignorance and hatred.


And I repeat: this is an invalid question. There is no such thing as coerced conversion. The people who are being forced to convert will never adopt the beliefs of their overlords. They will do whatever they can to distance themselves from them and their atrocities. The is no such thing as "a choice to convert". There are people who will do what they are told, but never will they think what they are told to think.

I would never convert, but I would never die for ideological reasons. I would die for irrational reasons, like wanting to defend the vulnerable victims who are unable to defend themselves.
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But in the long term, it means that Islam will prevail in that region. Even if the first "converts" are faking, what about subsequent generations?
 
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