Proof there is a God

[Write4U]

Just because it function by what we know as mathematics, doesn't mean it is the origin. For all we know it may be a language, or something generated by mind, or a mind.

It is a language, the abstract language of mathematics.

How did mathematics give rise to consciousness? Jan.

IMO, mathematical function is a form of consciousness, just not a self-aware consciousness. It does not need to be.

Part of this includes the concepts of consciousness and self-awareness. For many, these two concepts appear one and the same. After all, the concept of consciousness has been defined to be a form of awareness, as well as a variety of different phenomena that occurs within the human mind, as far as the fields of psychology and medicine are concerned. Although, when it comes to the field of philosophy, these two concepts are considered to be very distinct from one another.

Read more: Difference Between Consciousness and Self | Difference Between | Consciousness vs Self http://www.differencebetween.net/science/difference-between-consciousness-and-self/#ixzz45hMI5clx

But the mathematical function gave rise to and evolution of self-aware consciousness.

 

[Jan Ardena]

OK back to the warm and fuzzy seemingly intellectual fall back that avoids addressing legitimate concerns of those wondering if the sheep are mistaken about their mythical farmer.

Sorry but the op is far from living up to its hinted claim.

Alex

The reality is you have no idea if what you're saying is correct. Yet you seem so sure.

Jan

 

[Daecon]

The reality is you have no idea if what you're saying is correct. Yet you seem so sure.

Jan

That goes double for you.

 

[BrianHarwarespecialist]

God is the judge He is the most accurate and the rightfully true judge. Evidence of his existence well you have feelings that are really complex and you choose to go against your evil instincts at least most of the time. He created you like that he is the director of karma that keeps the accountability of checks and balances. This is why you feel bad when you sin it's God inside you reminding you its wrong.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

What is God, in your opinion?
You need to answer this to make sense of what you said.



Can you elaborate on this analogy?



What would you consider proof of God's existence?

Jan.

Hi Jan
I suppose I cant make sence given I dont believe in God.

Elaborate no I cant the anology either conveys my view or it does not.

Proof? More than other humans made up stuff.
What can you offer.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Jan I dont want to continue.
My bitterness is not helpful.
I say that I dont believe but its not right for me to rant.
If you believe well that is wonderful for you.

Best wishes
Alex

 

[Sarkus]

If God does exist, why wouldn't He care?

Possibly for the same reason that you don't care about the molecules of air that you exhale.

We know what is right and wrong due to our god given conscience.

So you believe. Now please simply prove that is given to us by God rather than through otherwise natural means (given that this thread is about supposed proof of God).

God is interested in the eternal soul, not the temporary body.

So you believe.

If you try and remember that, God will make more sense to you.

More sense as an irrelevant fairy tale, perhaps, to those that do not believe in eternal souls.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

"... A santa clause for grown ups. Alex" What, you mean Saint Nicholas?

Sorry for my tardy reply Paul.

I dont mean Saint Nicholas I mean what I said.. Santa Clause.
I am aware of who you speak of but no I mean Santa Clause, the Santa Clause kids know.

Hope that clears things up for you and again sorry for not replying earlier.

Alex

 

[Billy T]

If God does exist, why wouldn't He care?

perhaps he went away to over see another universe he created. Perhaps he doesn't give a Dam. Who am I to tell what God must do, what his wishes are, etc. You seem to POSTUALTE with no foundation, and in conflict with history, that he does care what happens on Earth.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jan I dont want to continue.
My bitterness is not helpful.
I say that I dont believe but its not right for me to rant.
If you believe well that is wonderful for you.

Best wishes
Alex

I get it. You like to offend. But offensiveness is irrelevant because you mock a strawman god. A god understood by an atheistic mindset. The god you are atheist towards.
What a waste of time.

Jan.

 

[DaveC426913]

What is God, in your opinion?
You need to answer this to make sense of what you said.

This assertion has been made before and has been succinctly refuted.

One does not need to know the colour of Russell's orbiting teapot - or the length of a unicorn's horn - in order to satisfactorily conclude that it is fictional.

Likewise, atheists in general see no reason that a paranormal or supernatural entity of any description should exist. That it is supernatural is the only required criterion to conclude it is not a part of a sensical model of the universe.

The onus therefore, remains on the claimant to describe the thing that allegedly exists. In their description, all they have to do is name one aspect that is counter-factual for the hypothesis to be challenged.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Possibly for the same reason that you don't care about the molecules of air that you exhale.

I don't know that I don't care.
If I was omniscient however....

So you believe. Now please simply prove that is given to us by God rather than through otherwise natural means (given that this thread is about supposed proof of God)

God given conscience goes some way to proving God exists, but first we have to agree on what God is. I'm confident that you will purposely go out of your way to confuse this simple point. But I will be happily proven wrong about your attitude. Let's see shall we?

More sense as an irrelevant fairy tale, perhaps, to those that do not believe in eternal souls.

I wasn't aware that proving God exists means you have to believe, or not believe in eternal souls.
It this attitude is a permanent feature, then perhaps they should make like Alex, and stand in the sidelines throwing tomatoes at people who have the audacity to not think like him.

Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

perhaps he went away to over see another universe he created. Perhaps he doesn't give a Dam. Who am I to tell what God must do, what his wishes are, etc. You seem to POSTUALTE with no foundation, and in conflict with history, that he does care what happens on Earth.

Okay let's discuss what God is, at least from your perspective, and see how it is He could be interested in one universe, and disinterested in another?

Jan

 

[Jan Ardena]

That goes double for you.

How do you know?

Jan.

 

[exchemist]

Just because it function by what we know as mathematics, doesn't mean it is the origin. For all we know it may be a language, or something generated by mind, or a mind.



How did mathematics give rise to consciousness?

Jan.

Jan I share your scepticism about this. Write4U has embraced the idea of this Shapiro/Tegmark person, but very few others believe that mathematics is a physical thing. Most people, myself included, would say mathematics is an abstract logical system, created by human reason.

(By the way my own view on God is that this is a concept incapable of proof. Even our scientific theories of the physical world cannot be proved true - and there is objective evidence for those, which there is not for God. )

 

[Jan Ardena]

This assertion has been made before and has been succinctly refuted.

Saying it has been refuted does not make it so. From my perspective there hasn't even been decent discussion about what God is, let alone a refutation. If you have an assertion then state it, and I will respond.

One does not need to know the colour of Russell's orbiting teapot - or the length of a unicorn's horn - in order to satisfactorily conclude that it is fictional.

Firstly we aren't discussing crockery, we are discussing God.
Secondly if you claim that God is fictional, then why He is fictional.

Likewise, atheists in general see no reason that a paranormal or supernatural entity of any description should exist. That it is supernatural is the only required criterion to conclude it is not a part of a sensical model of the universe.

Then what is your purpose here?

he onus therefore, remains on the claimant to describe the thing that allegedly exists. In their description, all they

Show me where I have claimed that God exists, and I'lls how you where you, or others have claimed God doesn't exist. Do you still regard the onus is on the one who makes claim?

Jan.

 

[Daecon]

Saying it has been refuted does not make it so. From my perspective there hasn't even been decent discussion about what God is, let alone a refutation. If you have an assertion then state it, and I will respond.

No you won't. You'll just go "nuh-uh" again and claim nobody has refuted anything.

 

[Write4U]

Jan I share your scepticism about this. Write4U has embraced the idea of this Shapiro/Tegmark person, but very few others believe that mathematics is a physical thing. Most people, myself included, would say mathematics is an abstract logical system, created by human reason.

. I hope I did not give the wrong impression that mathematics is a physical thing. IMO it is a metaphysical structural imperative of our spacetime. IOW, the relationships etween things is mathematical in essence. Some interactions are mathematically allowed, other interactions are not mathematically allowed. But IMO, mathematics is an abstract *logical system*, which are able to represent symbolically with numbers and equations.

The Hazen example clearly shows the mathematical preferences of left and right handed molecules. And so it is with inherent potentials of particles.

If we try to connect two positively charged particles, they will repel each other, OTOH connecting two oppositely charged particles will result in a bonding. Perhaps this may be a *stretch*, but I see that as a fundamental mathematical function, resulting in a specific action.

(By the way my own view on God is that this is a concept incapable of proof. Even our scientific theories of the physical world cannot be proved true - and there is objective evidence for those, which there is not for God. )

I agree.

And I totally disagree with the expression of "God works in mysterious ways". Some universal functions may be mysterious to us, but I am wiling to bet on the chance that those mysterious ways are mathematical in essence.

As Eistein said, "God does not play dice", implying there is an underlying mathematical function, even if we do not (yet) understand that function.

 

[Sarkus]

I don't know that I don't care.
If I was omniscient however....

You don't know if you don't care?? Are you not capable of establishing whether care about something or not? Do you need someone to tell you?
Your answer is something I would expect from a chatbot.

God given conscience goes some way to proving God exists, but first we have to agree on what God is.

Sure, if we agree that God is that which gives us our conscience then, since we have conscience, God must exist.
But we don't agree on what God is, and any proof that does not necessitate the God that you claim exists is thus no proof at all but merely confirmation bias of your a priori assumption.
The existence of conscience does not necessitate that which you believe in... you might believe it does, though.

I'm confident that you will purposely go out of your way to confuse this simple point. But I will be happily proven wrong about your attitude. Let's see shall we?

I'm confident that you will insist on accepting God as you define, and through that definition have an a priori assumption of its existence when considering any "proof". I will be happily be proven wrong about your attitude, but let's see shall we?

I wasn't aware that proving God exists means you have to believe, or not believe in eternal souls.

If you claim, as you did, that God is concerned with the eternal soul and that this will help one make more sense of God, then to those that don't believe in the eternal soul it will only make more sense of God as a fairy tale. Otherwise you are claiming that God is interested in something that they don't believe exists... and that is rather nonsensical... to believe in something that is concerned with something you don't believe in.
I'm guessing the logic escapes you, though.

It this attitude is a permanent feature, then perhaps they should make like Alex, and stand in the sidelines throwing tomatoes at people who have the audacity to not think like him.

And if your attitude of providing nothing but a dictionary/scripture as way of proof is a permanent feature, then perhaps you should not stand in the open and ask to have tomatoes thrown at you.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I get it. You like to offend. But offensiveness is irrelevant because you mock a strawman god. A god understood by an atheistic mindset. The god you are atheist towards.
What a waste of time.

Jan.

Yes Jan you are indeed correct.

This thread is a waste of time.

Alex