Proof there is a God

DaveC426913 said:
I'm not here to defend a belief in god, but your argument paints with too broad a brush. There are plenty of people who believe in a clockwork universe set up by god that runs according to natural laws that he created.

It doesn't eliminate god-behind-the-curtain, but it does push him closer to irrelevance.
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Also what about the problem of evil?

There is too much evil and cruelty in this world. Good people are suffering for no reason. Also there is cruelty against animals.

I think that if God created this shitty world then he must be an evil monster (that's because this world is really shitty)
 
pluto2 said:
Also what about the problem of evil?

There is too much evil and cruelty in this world. Good people are suffering for no reason. Also there is cruelty against animals.

I think that if God created this shitty world then he must be an evil monster (that's because this world is really shitty)
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(Argh. I hate playing the Devil's Advocate. I've dealt with god issues enough that I've seen these arguments before.)

I'm pretty sure that wild animals would see our conservatory efforts toward them as evil, if they could comprehend such a thing.
We tranq them, cage them, study then, tag them, pull their (albeit abscessed) teeth out, we even dissect them, and often we release them back into the wild to fend for themselves (OK, not the dissected ones).
We don't stop the lion from taking down the antelope, and we don't step between two battling lions, or prevent a new pride leader from killing its young rivals.

Yet we know our actions are not evil. They are done for love of the conservation of the animals.

I'm not defending God's existence here; I'm simply thwarting one of the weaker arguments.
 
DaveC426913 said:
(Argh. I hate playing the Devil's Advocate. I've dealt with god issues enough that I've seen these arguments before.)

I'm pretty sure that wild animals would see our conservatory efforts toward them as evil, if they could comprehend such a thing.
We tranq them, cage them, study then, tag them, pull their (albeit abscessed) teeth out, we even dissect them, and often we release them back into the wild to fend for themselves (OK, not the dissected ones).
We don't stop the lion from taking down the antelope, and we don't step between two battling lions, or prevent a new pride leader from killing its young rivals.

Yet we know our actions are not evil. They are done for love of the conservation of the animals.

I'm not defending God's existence here; I'm simply thwarting one of the weaker arguments.
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This may be relevant to the conversation. I found it most informative and seems to confirm my intuitive understanding of morality v. the nature of the universe at different levels of existence.

In any case it is entertaining reading and listening. It is an excerpt of the book, *The Mind's I*
http://xeny.net/.PreludeAntFugue
and the full version, set to Bach's fugue, here called the *Ant Fugue*
http://themindi.blogspot.ch/2007/02/chapter-11-prelude-ant-fugue.html
 
pluto2 said:
Those who believe in God are clearly delusional in my opinion.
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Mmm... seems reasonable.

Scientific evidence and especially evidence coming from physics has clearly shown that the existence of any God is extremely unlikely. The laws of physics are universal and mathematical and they seem to just contradict religion.
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Gosh.
You're right.
They do.

People who believe in God just don't understand biology, chemistry and especially physics.
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Atheism is true!
I see the light.

Thanks for that, it was very enlightening.

jan.
 
And yet you seem to be expecting people to convert to whichever version of Christianity you follow, just because you say so.
 
It is more important to look at what someone does with their belief. Do they use it to foster hate? Do they use it to downplay the concerns and goals of women?

Theists and atheists alike can do this.
 
river said:
I found in my thinking that evil will cease to exist.


Good is better; agreed
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For all we know evil is the natural atmosphere, and God is nothing but a way to sneak in ideas like goodness, love, and compassion into a world where such concepts are alien.

Jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
For all we know evil is the natural atmosphere, and God is nothing but a way to sneak in ideas like goodness, love, and compassion into a world where such concepts are alien.

Jan.
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What happened to being atheist (in this thread)?
 
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