Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

Pincho Paxton said:
This part is in the future... so doesn't matter...
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Pardon?

WTF are we talking about if not the future?
WTF do you think omniscience means?
Knowing everything, including the future: this means that, (as per the f*cking OP), god knows before we do what we are going to "choose". therefore we don't actually have a choice.
What the hell have you been talking about up to now?

So your question should be... If I travel to the future and know what happens.. should I bother going back to the beginning again?
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No it shouldn't.
We are talking about what the existence of knowledge of the future does.
 
Dywyddyr said:
Pardon?

WTF are we talking about if not the future?
WTF do you think omniscience means?
Knowing everything, including the future: this means that, (as per the f*cking OP), god knows before we do what we are going to "choose". therefore we don't actually have a choice.
What the hell have you been talking about up to now?


No it shouldn't.
We are talking about what the existence of knowledge of the future does.
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It does nothing... As God travels to the future he passes himself creating you, he passes your life, and gets to the end and watches. He isn't likely to go back, and create you again, because he already did that.
 
Pincho Paxton said:
It does nothing... As God travels to the future he passes himself creating you, he passes your life, and gets to the end and watches. He isn't likely to go back, and create you again, because he already did that.
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Again: irrelevant.

If it is KNOWN that X will happen (or, if god is the future* has happened) then can X not happen?

* And your point here is equally ridiculous because it has not been claimed that god is the future and away from us: he's supposed to be everywhere at the same time.
Therefore what he knows from the future (it that's how he knows it) he still knows while he's around now AND before he created us.
 
Dywyddyr said:
Again: irrelevant.

If it is KNOWN that X will happen (or, if god is the future* has happened) then can X not happen?

* And your point here is equally ridiculous because it has not been claimed that god is the future and away from us: he's supposed to be everywhere at the same time.
Therefore what he knows from the future (it that's how he knows it) he still knows while he's around now AND before he created us.
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If you only live 1 timeline you have Free Will, I am sure that you have us living the same life twice. You keep saying "You already ate the apple."
 
Pincho Paxton said:
You would need 2 Free Wills to do otherwise, you already used 1 up.
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What do you mean "used one up"?
How can you have "two free wills"?

So you're now (finally!) agreeing that if god KNOWS what you're going to do there is no free will.
Thank you.
 
Dywyddyr said:
What do you mean "used one up"?
How can you have "two free wills"?

So you're now (finally!) agreeing that if god KNOWS what you're going to do there is no free will.
Thank you.
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No.. you are trying to get a person to do 2 things at the same time. They had Free Will, and picked the apple, now in the same timeline you also want them to pick the banana. That require 2 choices in one timeline. Just because God travelled through time.. you still only have 1 life time.
 
Pincho Paxton said:
No.. you are trying to get a person to do 2 things at the same time.
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No.

They had Free Will
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And again you repeat the unsupported assertion.

and picked the apple, now in the same timeline you also want them to pick the banana. That require 2 choices in one timeline.
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Specious crap. I ASKED - is it possible?

Just because God travelled through time.. you still only have 1 life time.
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God doesn't need to travel through time: if he KNOWS, regardless of how he knows, then you HAVE NO CHOICE.
As you have agreed.

Therefore omniscience and free will are incompatible. One OR the other.
 
Dywyddyr said:
No.


And again you repeat the unsupported assertion.


Specious crap. I ASKED - is it possible?


God doesn't need to travel through time: if he KNOWS, regardless of how he knows, then you HAVE NO CHOICE.
As you have agreed.

Therefore omniscience and free will are incompatible. One OR the other.
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I also agreed that it was incompatible with Free Will. You can't use logic incompatible with Free Will in a case where God says we have Free Will. So you can only use the Time loop. Else if Christians say you can't have a Pink Face you are going for the version with the Pink Face.

So I walk around the room, and I pick things up. I say... "God knows I am going to pick this up, do I have free will?"

Well all it tells me is that God knows I will do it, but he didn't know until I did it in his future. Now he is in the past again.
 
Pincho Paxton said:
I also agreed that it was incompatible with Free Will.
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Wrong again. You stated, quite clearly (more than once):
isn't a Paradox.
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You can't use logic incompatible with Free Will in a case where God says we have Free Will.
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Really?
Then NOTHING can be said about god as we're concerned.

So you can only use the Time loop.
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Absolutely wrong.
If god (or anyone else) knows, in any way, shape or form, or even if that knowledge exists (whether known or not) the argument shows that free will can't exist.

Else if Christians say you can't have a Pink Face you are going for the version with the Pink Face.
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What?
 
Pincho Paxton said:
Well all it tells me is that God knows I will do it, but he didn't know until I did it in his future. Now he is in the past again.
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Arrant nonsense. If god's knowledge is perfect then he knows the future before it happens.
If the future is known then it is fixed. If it is fixed there is no free will.
 
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Dywyddyr,


If he cannot do otherwise then he has no choice.


Answer the question, why would he want to make another choice if it is
know that he will choose A?
As neither of us can say for sure whether or not he can choose otherwise,
we try work out why he should change his mind.


In other words you have nothing actual to say with regard to the argument.
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Part of this relies on God knowing what will happen in our future, and would
be the only one who knows. Asking us mere mortals is a pointless exercise.


jan.
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