Proof of the supernatural

[Magical Realist]

I do not think the majority of the people who think they see a alien spacecraft or a ghost or bigfoot are lying, I just think they are mistaken!
The point about the dress color is not that the people that thought the dress was white and gold were lying the point is that their observations were NOT RELIABLE. More than half of the people surveyed were wrong about the color of the dress. So 2 people side by side looking at the same picture can see different things. That is the point, eyewitnesses are not realiable. It is especially true if they witnesses think they are seeing something unusual or scary, because they will be "pumped up".

LOL! This wasn't a picture of a black and blue dress in deceptive lighting. It was a voice distinctly heard by 4 rescue workers. Not even remotely comparable..

 

[origin]

LOL! This wasn't a picture of a black and blue dress in deceptive lighting. It was a voice distinctly heard by 4 rescue workers. Not even remotely comparable..

Yes, yes I am sure you believe the most likely explanation was the ghost of bigfoot was brought into our dimension by aliens and put in that car, or whatever. If it brings you happiness to believe in that then have at it, just don't expect reasonable people to go along for the ride with you.

 

[Magical Realist]

Why are some people so scared to acknowledge the reality of the supernatural? As if their whole world might fall apart if there is such a thing? Speaking personally, I fare quite well in a supernatural universe. I sleep peacefully at night. I still believe in science. I'm not going crazy wondering what ufos or spirits are up to. My life is as simple and unconfused as ever. I think people here are too concerned how they will look believing in the supernatural. As if they will appear naive and foolish to others if they admit the possibility of the paranormal. That belies an overconcern for one's ego over knowing the truth. Since when has the truth EVER been about maintaining a certain persona before others? It isn't. It's about acknowledging the facts and accepting that we can't explain all that happens in the universe however unpopular that might make you with others. Cuz some people just can't handle living in a universe where the unexplained happens. It disturbs them that they actually have to think instead of relying on the pat answers provided them from a science textbook. But take heart-- life WILL go on even in the presence of other worlds, I assure you.

“It is entirely possible that behind the perception of our senses, worlds are hidden of which we are unaware.” – Albert Einstein

 

[Magical Realist]

Yep - MR will refuse to see this simple fact, though, because it discredits his "idea".

My response to this thread at this point:

Where are my sample sizes too small? Where are my standard deviations too high? Please cite the post in this thread backing up your claim.

 

[Daecon]

Why are you so scared to admit you're wrong?

 

[Kittamaru]

Where are my sample sizes too small? Where are my standard deviations too high? Please cite the post in this thread backing up your claim.

Your sample size - 4 people
Standard deviation - people mishear shit all the time

Problem solved.

 

[Magical Realist]

Your sample size - 4 people
Standard deviation - people mishear shit all the time

Problem solved.

That's not a population sample and you know it. It has nothing to do with sampling or standard deviations. It has to do with 4 people who were present hearing the same voice. What the population experiences has nothing to do with it.

 

[paddoboy]

Why are you so scared to admit you're wrong?

Because he accepts and believes in woo woo woo woo woo woo

 

[Kittamaru]

That's not a population sample and you know it. It has nothing to do with sampling or standard deviations. It has to do with 4 people who were present hearing the same voice. What the population experiences has nothing to do with it.

Oh really?

http://www.healthline.com/symptom/hallucinations
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia-easy-to-read/index.shtml
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/questions/question/1000410/
http://www.mind.org.uk/information-...-health-problems/hearing-voices/#.VQH9qY54raE

Hearing voices is often thought of as a symptom of a serious mental illness. But research on the experiences of the general population shows that lots of people hear voices, and the majority of them are not mentally unwell. It is a common human experience.

Hearing a voice when no-one is present with you, or which other people with you cannot hear, is considered to be a hallucination. This does not make it abnormal – it’s just a word for a perception you may have that is not shared by those around you. You may also see things that others can’t see. You may experience touch, smell or taste sensations which you cannot account for in usual everyday ways. Some people may not realise that many other people do not have such experiences.

People have many different experiences of hearing voices. Here are some examples:

• It’s quite common to hear your name called when there is no-one with you. You may look round to see where the voice came from, and wonder why you heard it, but if nothing else happens you will probably just shrug it off as ‘just one of those things’.
• You may hear or see things as you are falling asleep.
• You may experience the voices as being in your head, or you may feel that they are coming from outside and heard through your ears like other sounds.
• You may believe that you are hearing other people’s thoughts.
• The voices may be louder or more frequent if you are feeling stressed.
• You may experience unkind and threatening voices that tell you to do dangerous or unacceptable things or try to control you.
• You may hear a kind supportive voice.
• Sometimes there may be more than one voice and they may talk or argue with each other.

Why do people hear voices?
It is still very common for people to assume that if you hear voices, you must have schizophrenia. And, if you hear unpleasant and disturbing voices and see a doctor about them, you are quite likely to be given a diagnosis of psychosis. Sometimes these are the reasons, but there are many other explanations for voices too.

• Voices as you fall asleep or wake up – these are called hypnogogic and hypnopompic hallucinations, and are to do with your brain being partly in a dreaming state. The voice is likely to call your name, or say something very brief, or you may hear other brief sounds such as a telephone ringing. You may also see strange things, or misinterpret things you can see, such as seeing a coat on a hook as a person standing in the doorway. These experiences usually stop as soon as you are fully awake.
• Lack of sleep
• Hunger – you may hear voices if you are very hungry, or if you have anorexia nervosa and are starving yourself.
• Physical illness – if you have a high temperature, and have become delirious, you may hear voices, and see or say strange things.
• Drugs – you may hear or see things as a result of taking certain street drugs, or as a side effect of some prescribed drugs. You may also have these experiences when you are coming off drugs.
• Bereavement – if you have recently lost someone very close, you may hear them talking to you. You may also feel that they are with you, even though you cannot see them. This experience is very common, and can be comforting, especially in the early days of bereavement.
• Abuse or bullying – if you have experienced abuse, you may hear the voice of the person who abused you, undermining you and ordering you to harm yourself or to do things you know to be wrong. This is especially so if you experienced the abuse in childhood, at an age when you had not learned the coping skills you needed to protect yourself, or you were never given any chance to learn such skills.
• Other traumatic experiences – you may hear voices as a result of other traumas, such as accidents or major natural disasters. You may be diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Hearing several different voices may be associated with traumatic experiences, and may also be associated with a dissociative disorder: it may be a way of coping with trauma by separating yourself from it. (See post-traumatic stress disorder and dissociative disorders.)
• Spiritual experiences – some people experience a voice as part of a spiritual experience. You may experience your voice as that of an angel, a mystic or sage. This may be a very special experience for you, and you may feel that it helps you to make sense of your life. Or you may feel that you are possessed by an evil spirit and that is the voice you can hear.
• Mental health problems – you may hear voices if you have a diagnosis of psychosis, schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, or if you are severely depressed. (See psychotic experiences, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and depression.)

People hear shit that isn't there all the time... and lets face it - these people coming across that car - I think that would qualify as "traumatic" or "stressful".
To be frank, I'd believe that it was an act of God before I would believe it was something "paranormal" or "ghostly"

You are trying to use this instance as "Proof of the supernatural", per your own thread title... thus, I can safely say, as far as evidence goes:

Your sample size is too small
Your standard deviance is too high

 

[Magical Realist]

Oh really?

http://www.healthline.com/symptom/hallucinations
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia-easy-to-read/index.shtml
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/questions/question/1000410/
http://www.mind.org.uk/information-...-health-problems/hearing-voices/#.VQH9qY54raE



People hear shit that isn't there all the time... and lets face it - these people coming across that car - I think that would qualify as "traumatic" or "stressful".
To be frank, I'd believe that it was an act of God before I would believe it was something "paranormal" or "ghostly"

You are trying to use this instance as "Proof of the supernatural", per your own thread title... thus, I can safely say, as far as evidence goes:

Your sample size is too small
Your standard deviance is too high

LOL! Four people hearing the same words and voice from the same submerged car isn't a "hallucination of voices inside one's head." It's confirmation of a real voice that was heard by them. So once again, not a sampling and certainly nothing to do with what the population hears. Try again? Oh and FYI, this isn't my thread. Get your facts straight before posting..

"sampling

noun sam·pling \ˈsam-pliŋ, for 1 & 3 -p(ə-)liŋ\
: a small group of people or things taken from a larger group and used to represent the larger group."=====http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sampling

The 4 rescue workers are NOT representing any other group but themselves. They heard the voice, regardless of what the population normally hears or doesn't hear.

 

[spidergoat]

But they weren't just random strangers. They were geared up to rescue someone. They were unusually sensitive to interpreting any sounds as a call for help. So they could have heard what they expected to hear.

Once someone was talking to me and it sounded exactly like a saxophone playing. I'm quite sure the reverse could happen.

 

[Magical Realist]

But they weren't just random strangers. They were geared up to rescue someone. They were unusually sensitive to interpreting any sounds as a call for help. So they could have heard what they expected to hear.

4 trained rescue workers aren't going to hear the same words spoken by a female voice from a half submerged car just because they're "geared up to rescue". Noone would expect a live person from an upside down car in a river anyway that had been there for 14 hours. You're thinking body recovery at that point. But then the voice! Totally unexpected, spurring them into hurried action.

 

[garbonzo]

But they weren't just random strangers. They were geared up to rescue someone. They were unusually sensitive to interpreting any sounds as a call for help. So they could have heard what they expected to hear.

Once someone was talking to me and it sounded exactly like a saxophone playing. I'm quite sure the reverse could happen.

Did 4 of your other friends hear the saxophone too?

To be frank, I'd believe that it was an act of God before I would believe it was something "paranormal" or "ghostly"

Based on WHAT reasoning?

I do not think the majority of the people who think they see a alien spacecraft or a ghost or bigfoot are lying, I just think they are mistaken!
The point about the dress color is not that the people that thought the dress was white and gold were lying the point is that their observations were NOT RELIABLE. More than half of the people surveyed were wrong about the color of the dress. So 2 people side by side looking at the same picture can see different things. That is the point, eyewitnesses are not realiable. It is especially true if they witnesses think they are seeing something unusual or scary, because they will be "pumped up".

They weren't wrong about the color of the dress at all. They aren't mistaken. Some people see it differently. There is no right way. The way we see color is subjective. Think about this: there's no way we would know if what people attribute YOUR color "red" is actually "blue". Or it could be your color blue they see as red. We would never know.

Showing a "color corrected" picture of the dress does not prove the other picture is "actually blue". It's still gold and white to those that see it that way.

So then the sun rising is Paranormal (according to early cro-magnon humans)
The Sun and the Moon and the orbits of everything is Paranormal (according to heliocentric believers)
The disappearance of a high energy pulsar into the gravity well of a binary star system is paranormal, as science cannot explain it as of yet.
The propagation and underlying carrier of gravity is paranormal
The birth of the universe is paranormal.

According to you, much of the world is "paranormal" simply because science cannot explain it yet.
...
What a wonderfully Alice-in-Wonderland viewpoint... and how terribly naive. Just because something defies explanation now doesn't mean it defies explanation forever.

Exactly. Those things were paranormal but eventually explained. The same can be said of this phenomenon. But obviously the voice was real. Who is came from is the mystery.

 

[Magical Realist]

Yes, yes I am sure you believe the most likely explanation was the ghost of bigfoot was brought into our dimension by aliens and put in that car, or whatever. If it brings you happiness to believe in stupid shit then have at it, just don't expect reasonable people to go along for the ride with you.

It doesn't affect me emotionally either way that there are ghosts and aliens and bigfoot. If anything it makes reality more unsettling and unpredictable for me, something people like you don't have to balls the handle. You crave the security and safety of your little scientific world, where nothing unexpected or unexplainable EVER happens and you can sleep well at night. How sad..

 

[garbonzo]

It doesn't affect me emotionally either way that there are ghosts and aliens and bigfoot. If anything it makes reality more unsettling and unpredictable for me, something people like you don't have to balls to handle. You crave the security and safety of your little scientific world, where nothing unexpected or unexplainable EVER happens and you can sleep well at night. How sad..

Just like organized religion.

 

[paddoboy]

It doesn't affect me emotionally either way that there are ghosts and aliens and bigfoot. If anything it makes reality more unsettling and unpredictable for me, something people like you don't have to balls the handle. You crave the security and safety of your little scientific world, where nothing unexpected or unexplainable EVER happens and you can sleep well at night. How sad..

How gullible.

 

[Magical Realist]

How gullible.

Reported for insult..

 

[paddoboy]

Reported for insult..

You mean like your "group" insult to all and sundry that happen to disregard all this nonsense about ghosts, goblins fairies and the occult?
I could say grow up and stop being silly, but I'll stick to the gullibility remark for now.

Why are some people so scared to acknowledge the reality of the supernatural? As if their whole world might fall apart if there is such a thing? Speaking personally, I fare quite well in a supernatural universe. I sleep peacefully at night. I still believe in science. I'm not going crazy wondering what ufos or spirits are up to. My life is as simple and unconfused as ever. I think people here are too concerned how they will look believing in the supernatural. As if they will appear naive and foolish to others if they admit the possibility of the paranormal. That belies an overconcern for one's ego over knowing the truth. Since when has the truth EVER been about maintaining a certain persona before others? It isn't. It's about acknowledging the facts and accepting that we can't explain all that happens in the universe however unpopular that might make you with others. Cuz some people just can't handle living in a universe where the unexplained happens. It disturbs them that they actually have to think instead of relying on the pat answers provided them from a science textbook. But take heart-- life WILL go on even in the presence of other worlds, I assure you.

 

[Magical Realist]

Just like organized religion.

It really is. It's called scientism--the worship of science as the sole discloser of what is true and real. It's an appeal to authority--to an ambiguous but elite group of scientists who decree what is so in peer reviewed journals. Just as Catholics wait for the Vatican to tell them what to believe, they wait for "Science" to tell THEM what to believe. It's an easy out cuz you never have to examine each case on its own and decide for yourself whether it is true or not.

 

[Kittamaru]

4 trained rescue workers aren't going to hear the same words spoken by a female voice from a half submerged car just because they're "geared up to rescue". Noone would expect a live person from an upside down car in a river anyway that had been there for 14 hours. You're thinking body recovery at that point. But then the voice! Totally unexpected, spurring them into hurried action.

Unexpected, but wanted... so very wanted... one could even say they were, perhaps, desperate to hear a voice, because that would change it from a recovery to search and rescue.