Dear Spider, are you now into the mode of insisting on an endless exchange on the meaning of the word permanent?
That is reminiscent of an atheist here who is into verbosity in aid of vain pomposity. Many atheists talk that way, instead of thinking on facts and evidence and talk or speak out their honest solid findings on facts and logic.
No, they don't but they will commit themselves to verbosity in aid of vain pomposity; and finally take to their last safe house, with this kind of a most perversely ingenious very humble declaration, "I don't know," with the pleading for people not to be so presumptuous as to know something for certain, like the existence of God in concept the creator and operator of the unversed and everything with a beginning.
Okay, no need to invest time and trouble wastefully with your card on what is the meaning of permanent.
You are into what is an eternal universe, but scientists already have this common finding that the universe has a beginning in time and in space; so, no need to play that card of the universe being eternal.
However, we can talk about the universe in the older original meaning of universe, namely, the totality of existence.
So in the totality of existence there are we may speculate two components, the bigger component which encloses the smaller component:
The bigger component is what I would call properly the totality of existence and the smaller component is what scientists of the Big Bang universe call the universe.
So, let us speculate that there is an entity in the totality of existence that is eternal, and it is in charge of the universe the component that is called universe by scientists today, namely, the one which began in time and in space with what is now called the Big Bang.
So, what do you say, about my speculation?
Now, this is for readers who do not send messages here but are following this thread.
Thanks for your presence, everyone!
Read this everyone:
{quote]From Pachomius
Disclaimer: I am not into trying to get you guys to become God lovers, if you feel that you are getting to be affected by my posting in this body-muscle-building hoard, that is your call to no longer read my posts, or just quit this board: so that you will not be like getting to breathe in an environment where someone is smoking and you are getting to become willy-nilly an indirect smoker -- though I am myself a non-smoker, never been one ever.
{/quote]
Dear fellow muscle-builders or fancy talkers here, remember that the number 1 muscle of your existence is the brain: so use your brain to think on facts and logic, instead of talking so much without saying anything supported by your own thinking on facts and logic.
Today I had thought of presenting to you my proof for the existence of God in concept as the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning.
But I now find the task so very boring because it is so obvious to any entity with intelligence and free will: intelligence to know and free will to decide to not suppress his intelligence.
Let us imagine that you and I are newly born infants and we do not know anything at all outside our home, where papa and mama are the ones in charge and provide for everything that we need to stay alive, healthy, active, and happy, and also satisfied with all our wishes whatever in our infancy stage.
Let us further imagine that we have reached the age of one year and five months and we start walking,* and have a working intelligence as to explore our home environment: what do you guys say, shouldn't we already have the idea that papa and mama are the creator and operator of the whole universe of our home, including most importantly, ourselves?
That kind of an experience in infancy enables mankind to come to the concept of God as the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning.
*When does an infant start walking? Most babies take their first steps sometime between 9 and 12 months and are walking well by the time they're 14 or 15 months old. Don't worry if your child takes a little longer, though. Some perfectly normal children don't walk until they're 16 or 17 months old. -- Courtesy of Google, just enter in Google the line in bold above.
So, this morning I like for you fellow posters here but big talkers, to act your drama of big talking atheists as you are, and to respond to my write-up below as follows:
Dear readers, do you notice what is the knee jerk reaction of an atheist when he hears or reads the word God?
My impression is that he directly seeks to suppress in his heart and mind the natural instinct of man to know what it is and how it relates to himself.
What do you say about my impression?
Anyway, let us do this every simple experiment, let us present the word God in this thread and observe how the atheists here react in term of what we call a knee jerk reflex, is it to follow man's natural instinct to know what it is and its relation to himself, or to suppress the instinct?
Okay, atheists here, read this word, God, and tell readers what is your knee jerk reaction.
Now, I am always telling people to think on facts and logic, and also to know the distinction between knowledge and information.
So, allow me to bring to your thinking on facts and logic the following idea from yours truly.
Let us all limit our discussion to man, to ourselves, for the present please abstain from bringing in non-human living things; this is an appeal, so please don't argue against my suggestion to abstain bringing in non-human entities -- otherwise we will be expanding our discussion more widely than necessary.
The instant topic here is what is thinking on facts and logic and the distinction between knowledge and information.
And my first question is on the distinction between knowledge and information.
Information by way of example is like when I and you are walking in the park and I say, "There is something there behind the bush."
"There is something there behind the bush," that is a piece of information which we can also call a fact.
Knowledge is when we ask ourselves and seek the answers to what journalists or news reporters call the five w's and one h of an event or an object, namely: what, who, where, when, why, and how.
To answer the five w's and one h, we have to employ logic.
When we have answered the five w's and one h, then we possess the command of an orderly collection of facts and even non-facts which orderly collection has a meaning for us humans: and that is knowledge.
What is our understanding of "meaning for us"?
By the word meaning I refer to how our knowledge contributes to our staying alive, healthy, happy, and satisfied in regard to everything that we have at least a wish to reach or achieve in life.
See you guys again tomorrow.
Annex
{quote]
spidergoat,
Yesterday at 12:48 PM Report
#143
Pachomius said:
↑
In which case, then as the universe has a lot of events which are still developing into existence and also other events going out of existence, what do you say, shouldn't we be curious to speculate on the something that is permanent in the universe, that is in charge of the events to still come forth and the events that should already shall we say exit from the stage?
What is permanent?
{/quote]
