Why are humans capable of beliefs, reptiles don't dream I was told this from a presence that I did not detect or isolate the source but the message was logically correct.
We have no free will.Space time is the artist way ("God") of defining His work. And probability existing within the paremeters of spacetime to keep the integrity of the gift of free will an authentic principle of His creation.
Reptiles have beliefs.Why are humans capable of beliefs, reptiles don't dream I was told this from a presence that I did not detect or isolate the source but the message was logically correct.
No, I can't enlighten you. But it's evident that you don't believe that I believe God is just a concept. I don't think when you are discussing God that you are discussing anything other than a concept. But isn't this all to avoid discussing your special pleading?I don't know what it is to ''believe in atheists'', perhaps you can enlighten me.
jan.
Somehow, somewhere, something has to be eternal. I say let's save a step and say the universe is eternal. It has always been (in some form or another) and always will be. What we see as the "big bang" was just another step in the cycle. Just because a sine wave crosses the X axis doesn't mean the string has stopped vibrating.Maybe the ''original'' in original cause, may help?
jan.
How is an eternal God a possibility?How is an eternal universe a possibility?
Arguably. Here are a few objections that have been raised to the cosmological argument:The cosmological argument shows that God caused/created the universe.
You have failed in the same way with God.You have yet to explain how the universe being eternal, could be regarded as a fact, as opposed to simply labeling it so.
There must be a cause for God too, if everything needs a cause.The universe comes into and out of being, whether it occurs once, or occurs eternally. This mean it there must be a cause.
Please explain why a cause for God is not necessary.Please explain how the original cause, is not necessary?
How is it that you conclude that God is, or even could be, eternal?So how is it that you conclude that the universe is, or even could be eternal?
You have claimed God ("original cause") to be necessary, yet you can not seem to explain why something that is eternal necessarily requires an "original cause".I don't know what you're pertaining to.
I agree, if by "arguably" you mean that the CA does not show that God caused/created the universe.Arguably. Here are a few objections that have been raised to the cosmological argument:Jan Ardena said:The cosmological argument shows that God caused/created the universe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument#Objections_and_counterarguments
You have claimed God ("original cause") to be necessary, yet you can not seem to explain why something that is eternal necessarily requires an "original cause".
Please do so?
How is an eternal God a possibility?
Somehow, somewhere, something has to be eternal.
You have failed in the same way with God.
There must be a cause for God too, if everything needs a cause.
Please explain why a cause for God is not necessary.
How is it that you conclude that God is, or even could be, eternal?
No, I can't enlighten you. But it's evident that you don't believe that I believe God is just a concept. I don't think when you are discussing God that you are discussing anything other than a concept. But isn't this all to avoid discussing your special pleading?
What do you think? Do you think that God is eternal, or did God come into existence at some time?I'll allow your atheist (gmilam) chum to posit a response...
I thought you had claimed that God's existence could be regarded as a fact. My mistake.I haven't claimed that God's existence is a fact.
I disagree with gmilam's claim that there must be something that is eternal. I don't think that anybody in this thread has established that as a requirement.Sure, if you're in the business of shifting goalposts.
Read gmilam's insightful quote.
Fair enough, given your definition of God. Of course, previously we concluded that, given the content of that definition, the word "God" was equivalent to "the universe", so you and gmilam really aren't in disagreement. You only disagree on what to call it.I don't understand the question, given, the definition of God.
Ok.I have made no such conclusion.
Stop lying, Jan.I have made no more of a claim that God is the original cause/creator, than the mind exercise made the claim that it is a FACT that God does not exist, in the so called mental exercise.
No, I don't. It makes no difference to the argument whether the creation is ex nihilo or from the arse-end of an inflatable transdimensional alien, or from God... there is still creation.You seem to think that ''cause'' is only related to ''creation'', ex nihilo.
And your god is just one concept of many.In our discussion, I said ''I am discussing God'' (as opposed to a god), and you replied ''I don't know that you are''. My subsequent response was based on that, as that's what was posted. It seems you added the other sentence shortly after I began my response to you.
jan.
You have insisted upon THE definition of God as "original cause/creator".
You initially claimed that, with God as defined, nothing would exist if there was no God. Things exist and thus you argue God is as defined.
You previously failed to see the logic of how this was an implicit claim that God is the original cause/creator, and despite being shown repeatedly how it is, you continue in your ignorance.
Furthermore, more recently (post #1079) you have claimed that God (as defined) is subsequently defined as necessary (#):
Thus you have claimed that God, as defined, exists.
QED.
(#) - I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you do understand what it means to be "necessary".
But if the universe had no creation event then there is no ex nihilo, no arse-end of an inflatable transdimensional alien, no God as our "original cause/creator"... we simply wouldn't have one: the chain of cause and effect would simply have gone on for an eternity.
And your god is just one concept of many.
What do you think? Do you think that God is eternal, or did God come into existence at some time?
I disagree with gmilam's claim that there must be something that is eternal. I don't think that anybody in this thread has established that as a requirement.
Well it's not mine.I don't know what you mean by ''your god''?
Maybe you can enlighten me.
jan.