Now let me indulge in a luxury by telling you a story between atheists and a theist, with the theist trying to prove the existence of God and assuming that the atheists must be trying to prove the non-existence of God.
Phase 1
Theist: I am thinking on facts and logic, and using the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic, on the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause, but doing so only thinking on facts and logic, and using the brain the number one muscle int he body to think on facts and logic. And I say that everything with a beginning has a cause.
Atheist 1: Ok. Can you prove that everything with a beginning has a cause?
Phase 2
Theist: I am thinking on facts and logic, and I encourage you to do the same, to think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic. Thinking on facts and logic and using the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic I reach the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause. You are taking the opposite position that not everything with a beginning has a cause.
Atheist 1: No, I am not taking that position. I am merely asking you to support your claim, and to then proceed with your argument.
Phase 3
Theist: I have been thinking on facts and logic and using the brain the number one muscle in the body. From the Bible I saw this proposition, that everything with a beginning has a cause. The people who wrote the Bible must have been thinking only on facts and logic. But as an example I give you a baby that has a beginning and has a cause in its parents. But you are taking the opposite position, that there is something with a beginning that does not have a cause. But you are not thinking on facts and logic and not using your brain the number one muscle in the body.
Atheist 1: I have already told you, I have made no proposition and am merely questioning the soundness of the one you are using. Please support your claim. Using a single example does not prove that it is universally true, nor does it differentiate between "beginning" being a mere rearrangement of that which already exists, and "beginning" of the underlying matter/energy.
Phase 4
Theist: I find that Atheist 1 is not compatible with me so I will have to say good-bye. I ask any other atheists to dialogue with me on the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause but please only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic.
Atheist 1: So you're not going to support your claim? Okay, let's say we accept your claim. Please proceed with your argument.
Phase 5
Theist: I ask atheists to dialogue with me on the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause but please only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic. If I have already dialogued with you and said good-bye to you and you wish to dialogue with me then we must come to some concurrence that we are talking about what goes on within our universe. If I have already dialogued with you and said good-bye to you and you wish to dialogue with me then I will have to tell you no.
Atheist 2: So you want to limit examples to what goes on within our universe and then apply that principle to the creation of the universe itself, while not knowing whether the same principles are capable of being applied? Also, noone is yet claiming the opposite position that not everything with a beginning has a cause. Please just proceed with your argument.
Phase 6
Theist: I am incompatible with Atheist 2, but maybe Atheist 1 and Atheist 2 are compatible among themselves. Now, is anyone else going to dialogue with me on the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause but please only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic.
Atheist 3: Please address the criticisms raised against your position and/or proceed with your argument.
Phase 7
Theist: I am interested in the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause and I only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic. Here is my example that everything with a beginning has a cause namely a baby has a beginning and has a cause in its parents. Now being sure to think on facts and logic and using the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic, what is your example that not everything with a beginning has a cause?
Atheist 3: Noone has yet claimed that there is something that has a beginning that does not have a cause within this universe. We have merely examined your proposition and found your method lacking, but would encourage you to actually proceed with your argument. Please.
Phase 8
Theist: I am incompatible with Atheist 3. I am interested in the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause and I only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic. Here is my example that everything with a beginning has a cause namely a baby has a beginning and has a cause in its parents. Now being sure to think on facts and logic and using the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic, what is your example that not everything with a beginning has a cause?
Seemingly ad infinitum.
Certainly ad nauseam.
Phase 1
Theist: I am thinking on facts and logic, and using the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic, on the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause, but doing so only thinking on facts and logic, and using the brain the number one muscle int he body to think on facts and logic. And I say that everything with a beginning has a cause.
Atheist 1: Ok. Can you prove that everything with a beginning has a cause?
Phase 2
Theist: I am thinking on facts and logic, and I encourage you to do the same, to think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic. Thinking on facts and logic and using the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic I reach the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause. You are taking the opposite position that not everything with a beginning has a cause.
Atheist 1: No, I am not taking that position. I am merely asking you to support your claim, and to then proceed with your argument.
Phase 3
Theist: I have been thinking on facts and logic and using the brain the number one muscle in the body. From the Bible I saw this proposition, that everything with a beginning has a cause. The people who wrote the Bible must have been thinking only on facts and logic. But as an example I give you a baby that has a beginning and has a cause in its parents. But you are taking the opposite position, that there is something with a beginning that does not have a cause. But you are not thinking on facts and logic and not using your brain the number one muscle in the body.
Atheist 1: I have already told you, I have made no proposition and am merely questioning the soundness of the one you are using. Please support your claim. Using a single example does not prove that it is universally true, nor does it differentiate between "beginning" being a mere rearrangement of that which already exists, and "beginning" of the underlying matter/energy.
Phase 4
Theist: I find that Atheist 1 is not compatible with me so I will have to say good-bye. I ask any other atheists to dialogue with me on the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause but please only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic.
Atheist 1: So you're not going to support your claim? Okay, let's say we accept your claim. Please proceed with your argument.
Phase 5
Theist: I ask atheists to dialogue with me on the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause but please only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic. If I have already dialogued with you and said good-bye to you and you wish to dialogue with me then we must come to some concurrence that we are talking about what goes on within our universe. If I have already dialogued with you and said good-bye to you and you wish to dialogue with me then I will have to tell you no.
Atheist 2: So you want to limit examples to what goes on within our universe and then apply that principle to the creation of the universe itself, while not knowing whether the same principles are capable of being applied? Also, noone is yet claiming the opposite position that not everything with a beginning has a cause. Please just proceed with your argument.
Phase 6
Theist: I am incompatible with Atheist 2, but maybe Atheist 1 and Atheist 2 are compatible among themselves. Now, is anyone else going to dialogue with me on the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause but please only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic.
Atheist 3: Please address the criticisms raised against your position and/or proceed with your argument.
Phase 7
Theist: I am interested in the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause and I only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic. Here is my example that everything with a beginning has a cause namely a baby has a beginning and has a cause in its parents. Now being sure to think on facts and logic and using the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic, what is your example that not everything with a beginning has a cause?
Atheist 3: Noone has yet claimed that there is something that has a beginning that does not have a cause within this universe. We have merely examined your proposition and found your method lacking, but would encourage you to actually proceed with your argument. Please.
Phase 8
Theist: I am incompatible with Atheist 3. I am interested in the idea that everything with a beginning has a cause and I only think on facts and logic and use the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic. Here is my example that everything with a beginning has a cause namely a baby has a beginning and has a cause in its parents. Now being sure to think on facts and logic and using the brain the number one muscle in the body to think on facts and logic, what is your example that not everything with a beginning has a cause?
Seemingly ad infinitum.
Certainly ad nauseam.
