point being, i'm not a big fan of her, her name-dropping, and her name-calling.
Proof of God
- Thread starter joepistole
- Start date
point being, i'm not a big fan of her, her name-dropping, and her name-calling.
Well, why not answer her back with a closely reasoned argument ?
because MW and me go way back and we've argued enough. and i'm not out here to argue anyway. i tried to message her, but for some reason i can't so i'll just say here...MW, please don't label me or call me names or insult me ok?
I hear what you say but don't confuse the word argument with shouting an name-calling. In philosophy, an argument is an idea that you put forward.
So if I say, "I know god exixst" that is an argument in favour of god. Im other words, I am arguing for god's existence, not shouting at anyone.
So when I referred to a reasoned argument the kind of thing I had in mind was " M.W. I don't agree with what you are saying becuse it seems to me that you are overlooking XYZ "
Now having put forward your argument you can expect to be challenged. You will normally be asked to support your claim ( argument ) with evidence.
You see, if we cannot provide evidence, we lose credibility and anything goes.
I could say: " I know there are cabbages on Mars". You may reply: " how do you know that ?" It's then upto me to provide evidence/reasons to support my claim that there are cabbages on Mars. If I cannot do so, ther is no reason why you should believe me, That's the only way to have a sensible debate.
I hope that helps you
:bugeye:My Dear ThinkingMansCrumpet...have you lost your grip on reality? Everyone knows the real question is..."Is Luke the Chosen One or is Anakin the Chosen One?"
The Answer is best related by Morpheus..."What happened, happened and couldn't have happened anyother way."
snigger
I know why you are sniggering. You thougt it was Jesus
I do understand what you're saying. It's just that me and MW have covered all of that in depth eons ago, and she's just trying to take sides and drag my name through the dirt and I don't want to be a part of that anymore. I know I could have responded to her insult in a more Jesus-like manner, but I didn't.
and I'm sorry.
:wallbang:
:wallbang:
No, I don't know - as you seem to refuse to do so when asked.
Questioning wouldn't be required if one supported one's claims.
The question you will always be asked is "WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING YOUR CLAIM?"
Then abide by your own idea - and supply the information requested... if you can.
Asking a question is NEVER equal. I (and others) ask - you currently refuse. So we ask again... and again... and still you refuse.
If you wish to ask questions of me, do so. Otherwise, please provide evidence for your claims. That's all we ask at the moment.
Because you are not polite enough to provide when first we ask.
People generally don't come to such places as this to "refuse" to provide support for their claims unless they are here purely to preach or make confidence statemens. And such people get the short shrift they deserve.
If you wish to refuse to supply the evidence to support your claims, that is your choice - but please then STOP MAKING THE CLAIMS. To do otherwise is to preach.
I think your understanding of a discussion is only for those who agree with you. You seem to take umbrage at anyone who questions you... as you seem to find yourself wanting in the ability to provide the evidence they ask. So you argue against their request without realising how pathetic it makes you seem, how worthless your claims and how annoying you become to others, especially when you try to dress it in sartorial language when all you accomplish is a new set of clothes for the Emperor.
I'll repeat the message for you, Saquist: Support your claims or please, with all due respect (albeit dwindling) - STFU!
Have a most pleasant of days.
Saquist's Problem
1. There are awkward people on here who are not up to speed with the latest developments in debating technique. I believe Saquist is ahead of the game and I'm surprised that he bothers to talk to us.
2. Saquist's students don't have the hubris to ask him stupid questions. The proper form of a question is : " Don't you think it's wonderfu that god created the world in such a short time ?" Or, " How can those scientists be so stupid as to argue against scripture ?"
I may be wrong in my assessment but I feel I should have paid closer attention to his utterances.
1. There are awkward people on here who are not up to speed with the latest developments in debating technique. I believe Saquist is ahead of the game and I'm surprised that he bothers to talk to us.
2. Saquist's students don't have the hubris to ask him stupid questions. The proper form of a question is : " Don't you think it's wonderfu that god created the world in such a short time ?" Or, " How can those scientists be so stupid as to argue against scripture ?"
I may be wrong in my assessment but I feel I should have paid closer attention to his utterances.
Ye are Gods; and all of you are children of the most High
joepistole,
Which of the Gods in the Bible you want Proof?
Masoretic Text (MT):
אוֹי לָנוּ--מִי יַצִּילֵנוּ, מִיַּד הָאֱלֹהִים הָאַדִּירִים הָאֵלֶּה: אֵלֶּה הֵם הָאֱלֹהִים, הַמַּכִּים אֶת-מִצְרַיִם בְּכָל-מַכָּה--בַּמִּדְבָּר.
King James Version (KJV):
Woe unto us! who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods? these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness.
You want Proof of any of these Gods?
G-D
joepistole,
Which of the Gods in the Bible you want Proof?
Masoretic Text (MT):
אוֹי לָנוּ--מִי יַצִּילֵנוּ, מִיַּד הָאֱלֹהִים הָאַדִּירִים הָאֵלֶּה: אֵלֶּה הֵם הָאֱלֹהִים, הַמַּכִּים אֶת-מִצְרַיִם בְּכָל-מַכָּה--בַּמִּדְבָּר.
King James Version (KJV):
Woe unto us! who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods? these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness.
You want Proof of any of these Gods?
G-D
Give him a proof of each one. I can help out with the Celtic and Nordic gods. He will be spoiled for choice.
Jason Chapman
Registered Senior Member
The Existence of God.
You know, whenever this subject comes under scrutiny on an internet forum it sparks a lot of emotion, and can often lead to hostile confrontation, or to put it simply a slanging match. There are obviously two sides to the argument: There are those who have absolute faith and believe in God without question, and then there are those who refuse anything to do with God. And so you have two opposing sides, trying to out-write what the last person wrote, using quotes and evidence from scientific and religious sources.
And so the age old argument continues, but the one thing that has changed is that those who do not believe are no longer burnt at the stake. Back in the middle ages people were being torched right left and centre if they didn’t believe or spoke out against the religious leaders. And most of those on this post against the existence of god would certainly be fuel for the fire.
As for whether I believe in god, the answer has to be no. However I make a point of not criticizing those who do have faith. Religion can unite many people and create positive thinking. I sympathise with the gentlemen who lost his father in law to cancer and I have no final explanation to what happened. However your case is not a new thing, my grandfather has a joyful expression on his face at the point of death. There are those who believe that at the point of death people often see loved ones who have long gone or something so wonderful that they are surrounded by Joy. And I’m sure there are loads more people out there who have had similar experiences.
I disagree with the use of the word atheist by some religious people on these internet forums. All too often it is used to describe people who don’t believe as Evil doers, arrogant, godless people.
Ever since Dan Brown wrote the Davinci Code there has been a deluge of literature dedicated to unravelling the bible and other religious teachings. Writers researching historical documents and coming up with their own theories on our religious beginnings. Of course this is nothing new, years before Dan Brown there were scores of writers writing books questioning the existence of the divine.
Since September 11th 2001 everything has gone into overdrive. In the days of the cold war it was simple. East vs. West the Soviet Union against the United States, good versus evil and all that. However since 9/11 it’s much more complicated. It’s not just about Christianity against Islam its religion against religion. There are more religions than I can list on this post and there are more being created all the time, they question we have ask ourselves is why? Why are new beliefs springing up all over the world? There haven’t been any biblical events similar to those documented in the Bible.
There is a stark reality that many religious people are finding difficult to accept these days and that is the amount of people who no longer have faith, and who busy themselves with self indulgence such as the want to make lots of money or to be famous. It can sometimes be too overwhelming for some people to bare, and so they come onto these forums and condemn such people to the fires of hell.
The world is changing fast, science does not hold all the answers, but it strives to find answers to old questions and it is evolving. There are those who see religion and the belief in the existence of God as stagnant, and unwilling to change, stubbornly holding onto teachings many of thousands of years old.
The existence of God is an argument which will continue until an event occurs that will effect every man, woman and child on this planet.
You know, whenever this subject comes under scrutiny on an internet forum it sparks a lot of emotion, and can often lead to hostile confrontation, or to put it simply a slanging match. There are obviously two sides to the argument: There are those who have absolute faith and believe in God without question, and then there are those who refuse anything to do with God. And so you have two opposing sides, trying to out-write what the last person wrote, using quotes and evidence from scientific and religious sources.
And so the age old argument continues, but the one thing that has changed is that those who do not believe are no longer burnt at the stake. Back in the middle ages people were being torched right left and centre if they didn’t believe or spoke out against the religious leaders. And most of those on this post against the existence of god would certainly be fuel for the fire.
As for whether I believe in god, the answer has to be no. However I make a point of not criticizing those who do have faith. Religion can unite many people and create positive thinking. I sympathise with the gentlemen who lost his father in law to cancer and I have no final explanation to what happened. However your case is not a new thing, my grandfather has a joyful expression on his face at the point of death. There are those who believe that at the point of death people often see loved ones who have long gone or something so wonderful that they are surrounded by Joy. And I’m sure there are loads more people out there who have had similar experiences.
I disagree with the use of the word atheist by some religious people on these internet forums. All too often it is used to describe people who don’t believe as Evil doers, arrogant, godless people.
Ever since Dan Brown wrote the Davinci Code there has been a deluge of literature dedicated to unravelling the bible and other religious teachings. Writers researching historical documents and coming up with their own theories on our religious beginnings. Of course this is nothing new, years before Dan Brown there were scores of writers writing books questioning the existence of the divine.
Since September 11th 2001 everything has gone into overdrive. In the days of the cold war it was simple. East vs. West the Soviet Union against the United States, good versus evil and all that. However since 9/11 it’s much more complicated. It’s not just about Christianity against Islam its religion against religion. There are more religions than I can list on this post and there are more being created all the time, they question we have ask ourselves is why? Why are new beliefs springing up all over the world? There haven’t been any biblical events similar to those documented in the Bible.
There is a stark reality that many religious people are finding difficult to accept these days and that is the amount of people who no longer have faith, and who busy themselves with self indulgence such as the want to make lots of money or to be famous. It can sometimes be too overwhelming for some people to bare, and so they come onto these forums and condemn such people to the fires of hell.
The world is changing fast, science does not hold all the answers, but it strives to find answers to old questions and it is evolving. There are those who see religion and the belief in the existence of God as stagnant, and unwilling to change, stubbornly holding onto teachings many of thousands of years old.
The existence of God is an argument which will continue until an event occurs that will effect every man, woman and child on this planet.
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Exactly....LOL
I can. I have. Not to you but to others. They didn't have a problem with the logic.
Why would I want to ask you anything? What could I possibliy learn from you to enhance my perspective? I gues you could start there.
Polite. That's irrelevant and contradictory in light of your poor behavior, Sarkus.
OOOOH.....I'm shaking things up...
I'm glad.Wow you're like a broken record that doesn't recieve external input other than.."insert coin"
Knock your self out, Sarku...I'll never stand in the way of what you think. It will be what it will be. You've had your opportunity and you've chosen to be dogmatic and throw evidence tantrums. You've not listened at all nor have you read what I've posted to others on the same topic not days ago on the threads in which you were participating.
You're pathetic. You don't want proof other wise you would have narrowed your question as I instructed you to. You want grand standing...And I'm happy to reveal the falsehood of your true resolve which is only the prosecuting equivalence of witness badgering. this is IT? The best you can do? You turn down every truce, you ignore every truth, every bit of logic? You evevn turn down concession! You strike me with my previous errors as to say "wrong once, wrong a thousand times."
You don't want discussion, Sarkus.
You don't want debate, either.
You don't want evidence.
You want a man hunt....That's why you can't give up that's why you press so hard that's why you're beating your head against a brick wall. You want it so badly you're willing to carry this farce of an interogation to an outlandish length. Like a monkey throwing his own crap you're willing to wallow in it, willing too throw it...Why? Who knows why monkeys throw their own crap all we know is it's a case of bad temperment. And that's exactly what you have Sarkus, a bad temperment. As nicely disguised as a cartoon monkey with a British accent but he'll still throw poo at you.
Throw that Poo, Sarkus.....Throw that Poo you Doo-Do, so well.
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What I fear is that atheist believe , is that "faith" means without proof. That people with faith are unsubstaniated in there trust. Curiously every dictionary will tell you that trust and faith are synonymous. Yet what person would trust a person with out proof of integrity whether that be prior experience or propper referral.
Yet as foolish as that is many do just so. People leave their children with people they don't know well every day. Many religions endorse this aswell. They put trust or blind faith in that which they haven't checked out or researched to any degree. No questions are asked no information is sought so no wonder why science regard these as ignorant and faith as blind.
No matter how often it occurs I must correct the perception. "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of things, though not yet beheld."
As usual with scientist and religion a like is acceptance of truth. Sometimes truth rocks your world. It's unseasoned or too bright to accept. It has to be toned down fed in smaller portions but never sugar coated.
i dont believe in religion at all... i used too... but then in my argument against if faith and god is real.. if god or faith is real... then why torture... y bring somthing so meaningless that the fact that everyone has when in a corner that you are already on the path that "god" chose for you. if this is true... then y have faith.. if he already knows and has chosen our life and where we go after that then wats the point?... if in fact god does exist then why have all this crap go on? cancer... war.... break ups on "his" word... "reason i say that is cause my life with a woman for 2 years ended it cause she was spoken by GOD!!! and that we werent ment to be... i know could be anything but hey... anyway" so tell me... if this is what its ment to be... have at all you want.... cause im not for it.
There is no torture.
There is a culture though. A culture of control. A culture that would rather interpret the bible so as the seats and pews are full than empty. But man has grown past mere fear and insted of keeping people in the pews it drives people away.
The interpretation of Fire and Brimstone is false. Everlasting toruture directly conflicts with chastisment to the propper degree. So your perception is accurate and your actions justified to turn away from such thinking.
There is a culture though. A culture of control. A culture that would rather interpret the bible so as the seats and pews are full than empty. But man has grown past mere fear and insted of keeping people in the pews it drives people away.
The interpretation of Fire and Brimstone is false. Everlasting toruture directly conflicts with chastisment to the propper degree. So your perception is accurate and your actions justified to turn away from such thinking.
Congratulations Saquist on anothe resounding victory. Why. indeed, should you provide evidence or concern yourself with mere facts. You have the truth and others should listen to your wisdom. Some, like me. cannot understand how you get from chaos and disorder to the truith of the Bible. I accept that is a failing on my part.
The other thing I cannot understand is the evidence you provide. Could you not make life easier for us all by saying something like " I know the Bible is true because ....." Deign to come down to my level and explain in terms that I might just understand.
I love the logic underlying the insults you hurl at all and sundry who don't agree with you. It's your ace in the hole and by god you know how to play it to devestating effect. There is just the danger, if you will allow me to say so, that the subtlety may be lost on ordinary people who may think you are just insulting them.
Once more I congratulate you on your resounding victory.
The other thing I cannot understand is the evidence you provide. Could you not make life easier for us all by saying something like " I know the Bible is true because ....." Deign to come down to my level and explain in terms that I might just understand.
I love the logic underlying the insults you hurl at all and sundry who don't agree with you. It's your ace in the hole and by god you know how to play it to devestating effect. There is just the danger, if you will allow me to say so, that the subtlety may be lost on ordinary people who may think you are just insulting them.
Once more I congratulate you on your resounding victory.
i wasnt insulting him... i was stating that for people that learn religion is just false hope.. example. there are SOOOOO many dif. meanings of the word.. Christian.. but one that i see that is the truth in this so called religion is the lost teachings of the Hebrew language. the reason is state this is in fact that it was the FIRST bible.. im not one to preach nor like it.. but from that bible came another with other INTERPRETATIONS from the one before.. and that is all that these bibles are doing with each other... different interpretations from other religions and bibles so that they can change the WORD to make there CHURCH better than the others... if wat im saying is making sense then we are all learning blasphemous religion and there is no heaven for any of us if there is one.
Photo of Holy Bible's Gods by Eve God
Myles,
Woe unto us!
who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods?
these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness.
Adam God . . . . . Cain God . . . . . Abel God . . . . . Seth God
Photo of Holy Bible's Gods by Eve God
G-D
Myles,
Woe unto us!
who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods?
these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness.
Adam God . . . . . Cain God . . . . . Abel God . . . . . Seth God
Photo of Holy Bible's Gods by Eve God
G-D