Proof of God

:confused: ..right. Designed ??

Of course designed. Don't you read the good book. It's people like you who get religion a bad name.

I didn't quote Eugenics in full. It continues: And all shall fall down in fear and trembling before the might of the Lord who, as a token of his love, will continue to frighten the shit out of them that they may repent and be spared everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.
 
Of course designed. Don't you read the good book. It's people like you who get religion a bad name.

I didn't quote Eugenics in full. It continues: And all shall fall down in fear and trembling before the might of the Lord who, as a token of his love, will continue to frighten the shit out of them that they may repent and be spared everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.

It's people like me that get religion a bad name ?? What are you on ?
I am not religious one bit..
 
It's people like me that get religion a bad name ?? What are you on ?
I am not religious one bit..

It's not to late to repent and be spared the pains of hell ! I'm on a high because Adstar has led me to Jesus.

I am also learning Christian logic and would ask you to interpret what I say in light of that logic which passes all understanding. Somewhere inside you there's a Christian struggling to get out.
 
It's not to late to repent and be spared the pains of hell ! I'm on a high because Adstar has led me to Jesus.

I am also learning Christian logic and would ask you to interpret what I say in light of that logic which passes all understanding. Somewhere inside you there's a Christian struggling to get out.

You must be joking.. right ?
 
THEORY OF PROBABILITY
At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth.
Wrong - it was known to be spherical some thousand years earlier.

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light.
Again - known for a great deal of time prior to the writing of the Qur'an.

Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water.
If only every living thing was made of water - you'd be onto a winner here.
We humans are only 70% water. The only thing made of water is... water (in its various forms) - and if every living thing was made of water - we'd melt in the sun!!! :)
 
Bedouin: "They are indicative to me that Allah made them."
One can not account for the irrationality of people.


Once Khalifa Haroon Rasheed asked Imam Malik: "What is the evidence (daleel) pointing to the existence of Allah (subhanahu wa ta`ala)?" Imam Malik replied: "Difference in languages, difference in pitches of voice, difference in singing are proof that Allah (subhanahu wa ta`ala) exists!"
Or evolution of both language and physicality?

Imam Abu Hanifa said, "I feel sorry about your state! You cannot imagine one ship running without some one looking after its affairs. Yet you think that for this whole world, which runs exactly and precisely, there is no one who looks after it, and no one owns it."
Argument from incredulity.

It is the Khaliq (Creator) who we call Allah (subhanahu wa ta`ala) Who is the Inventor and the Creator."
So the creator is the creator? wow. Gosh. Never thought of that.

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal was referring to an egg which is closed from all sides but Allah (subhanahu wa ta`ala) The Khaliq (Creator) puts life in it and a chick pops out.
Yes, we've probably all heard of this riddle - but I would suggest one gets to grip with BIOLOGY.


These are all nice stories and sayings... but they don't actually say much other than a rather subjective take on the matter. No evidence is shown, no proof given, and the irrational and illogical arguments abound.


Nice try though.
 
OK, lets test your hypothesis.

When considering the evidence for God is it (a) more than (b) less than or (c) the same as, the evidence for Xenu the Intergalactic Warlord presently worshiped by millions of Scientologist around the world?

So again, the options were:

(a) There is more evidence for God than for Xenu.
(b) There is less evidence for God than for Xenu.
(c) There is equal evidence for God as there is for Xenu.

Anyway, my pointing out the rather simplistic logical fallacies in a hack-copy-paste job may have been contemptuous but it doesn't take much to role the mouse over someone else's words and press Ctrl-C .... Ctrl-V ... Submit Reply now does it? If I was being contemptuous it was to someone else wasn't it?

Michael

I can not claim to have a common knowledge base for comparison of Xenu vs God. It is typicaly apparent God isn't alotted the total amount of credence for a fair consideration.

However if your sparing partner was engaging in C&P discusion construction to prove a point rather than to offer knowledge then I would have to agree with you. I doubt however he identified his methods. I'd say you're assuming this from the information he provided. Yet this is difficult to confirm.
 
I can not claim to have a common knowledge base for comparison of Xenu vs God. It is typicaly apparent God isn't alotted the total amount of credence for a fair consideration.
God has had more than his fair share of publicity down the centuries. Some of us have moved on but you are stuck in the past with nothing to back you up but a book of doubtful provenance. The Age of Reason never happened for you; you continue to live in the age of superstition.

However if your sparing partner was engaging in C&P discusion construction to prove a point rather than to offer knowledge then I would have to agree with you. I doubt however he identified his methods. I'd say you're assuming this from the information he provided. Yet this is difficult to confirm.

My experience of debating with you is that you never offer knowledge. What you offer is opinion. Plato knew the difference between opinion ( doxa ) and knowlegde ( episteme ) but don't let that bother you. You have the Bible.
 
I'm afraid your attack on my ideology does not constitute a rationale argument. This is fairly typical, Myles. I was speaking to someone else What exactly you're addressing in my post is dubious at best. Ultimately it appears to be some sort of attention getting tactic.

If you feel engaging never reveals any knowledge the question is invariably why do you seek engagement?

Any man may easily do harm, but not every man can do good to another.~ Plato

This quote has a two fold meaning here. In regards to you and in regards to my previous statement. It is your intent to do harm, it's easy but doing good to another is a action which is sorely lacking. Similarly man in general behaves such as you often do. Instigating, aggression and persecuting are traits that anyone and everyone is capable of.

However finding a true meeting of the minds makes for a unique and desireable person. We are not born that way. We must be taught. That is my point...the question is what was yours?
 
I can not claim to have a common knowledge base for comparison of Xenu vs God.
OK let me ask another way: Is there ANY evidence for the existance of Xenu that you know of? Do people beleive in the existance of Xenu? Why do you suppose so?

Is there ANY evidence of God that you know of? Do people beleive in the existance of God? Do you suppose some of those reasons are the same sort of reasons that persuade people to beleive in Xenu?

Michael
 
Okay
I don't know who Xenu is, I don't know how many people believe in his existance but since it's scientology I suppose quite a number of people do believe in him. Why...well why do people believe in most things...they've been convinced somehow.

I can answer question on God more effectively though.
Yes there is evidence that God does exist. It is the only evidence which could possibily be observerable which is a document of communication (Bible).

Do I believe in the existance of God? No. I know God exist. Through several factors which includes the bible as an historica record and through what science has been able to study and identify about the world around us, I'm able to concluded quite effectively that there is a God. The biblicaly extenal alone are able to determine there is a Creator, The bible merely identifies who and offers credence to the claim of his identity.

Do People Believe in God. Yes. Many types of gods and all varieties.

Do I suppose of those reason are the same sort of reasons that persuade people to believe in Xenu? Many of those reasons will be exactly the same. Most of them have nothing to do with the search for the truth but rather have very existential reasonings. A desire to whorship that which is greater, comfort & hope, Fear, Tradition, etc...
 
Given that the "God" people would be trying to disprove is, in itself, a fallacy, it's pointless to try. The "God" that so many people do believe in is, compared to what it is supposed to represent, a midget actor on a vast stage. It is easy enough to prove that this or that God doesn't exist. After all, the holy books are generally wrong about how they depict nature. Whatever those "God" characters are, they aren't God.

What makes disproving God so difficult is that, in the face of reality, the believers make a fallacious leap, depending on a general principle of God that necessarily defies the boundaries of their chosen God. So while they might feel smug that nobody can disprove the existence of God, they ought not, since the God that cannot be disproved is infinitely greater than the "God" they believe in.

The God that cannot be disproven is a human invention. It is a word we've invented to represent a condition that resides at the outer boundary of our imagination. God exists because the condition it tends to represent exists. In other words, God exists because we have decided it should be so. The various, petty gods of the various, petty religions, however, are easily shown to not exist.
 
Your "evidence" aka The Bible is not evidence at all. It is not anymore evidence of God than the mumblings of Ron L Hubbard are evidence for Xenu.

So the answer is: (c) there is equal evidence of God as there is for Xenu.

I think an honest theist would agree and some actually do. What happens to most theists is they don't like to accept this FACT. So they fain at not knowing the answer or they conjure some other answer in their mind that has nothing at all to do with real hard evidence.

Secondly, I agree that many of those reasons for people's beleif in Xenu are exactly the same as people's beleif in God. Indeed Most of them have nothing to do with the search for the truth but rather have very existential reasonings. A desire to whorship that which is greater, comfort & hope, Fear, Tradition, etc...
 
I can not concur with out outstanding comparative data on Ron L Hubbard. Otherwise I can only assume you're making a week compartive analogy, a speculative argument constructed to fit the facts. Even then I'd have to do the research myself. I've found the Sci Forum biassed when it comes to research of a religious nature. I desire objective reasonings...or in the very least a hearing of both sides. Thus is I can discover the relevent to your observances at least it would have been substaniated with like research and confirmed.

These may be your conclusion Michael but the evidence hasn't been made manifested.

The bible has grounds on the subject of historical background, scientific accuracy, propheticaly accurate, medically sound, and lineage. Yes it has been debated on many issues but not toppled. This is why the religion forum of the sci forum is more active than most other likely anyother.

You're claiming that the "mumblings of Ron L. Hubbard have equal consideration? I can provide examples of these five points for the bibles authenticity. Will Roon L. Hubbbard meet or exceed the same number of examples point for point?

I do not know...truely. I have an expectation but I am also expectant of new information I was not privy to previously.

This is why religion is so haphazard. There is no search invovled. If you should interogate a person of a particular religion they often could not validate their beliefs other by a sense of exaggerated self. To ask these individuals to interogate their own beliefs to withstand external prosecution would result in fleeing the questioning or a complete collapse of their basis of belief.

However I can not arbitrarily assume they are wrong because of their reasons. An investigation is necessary. Society, even in science reveals a psychological predilection toward conditioning..even NASA has the failed to heed valid data pertinent to lives certainly these people "common people" are also capable of the same dismissal of grounded logic.
 
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If we are the creation of a higher being of the universe, then aren't we the proof, as is everything around us.

In other words, if I made a small colony of artificially intelligent robots and went on an eternal holiday, are the robots proof that I existed?

If not, what can prove that I made them? (without showing up)

I know someday we all will have an answer, whether it be science or the being showing up. Just a matter of time...


But, we cannot be expected to accept a myth without evidence from the being, directly. It really frustrates me that the Christians expect hope and belief blindly. It's like we're damned for having a mind, which by the way, is how we were forged in the first place...but, yet the burden is on us to decide "correctly" (that there is a God) or perish. Rubbish.

Bottom line, there is no proof, but us.
 
Saquist,

You view is very interesting to me.

However, I cannot accept the Bible as evidence of God. It is a record of man's history, man's belief, and man's supposed experiences with God. It is in part archeological, but other part mythological. If anything, it is proof that man wants or has wanted spirituality.

For it to be accepted as proof of God, you must prove that God wrote it, or that Jesus was God in the flesh. But, both of those are difficult because you have to define and prove God first, so that you can prove the Bible is proof of God.

God must be proven before you can prove anything is the work of God. That is hard to do without the test subject present.

I cannot prove apples grow on trees without an apple.
 
Scientificly speaking you're correct. The subject is not available for question. Even more, the subjects nature is completely undetectable.

This is the reasoning I've used to accept the Bible as SOME sort evidence. It has too much information within it to simply ignore. If there is a Creator and it is a log of those brief encounters then throwing the bible to the wayside would be a travesty of justice. A record of communication tells us something. We just have to figure out what. Certainly entering it into evidence can't harm the search for the truth, leaving it out may exclude vital information.

BUt it is as you say the true evidence of a creator is what he created....But that is an inherent God vs Evolution debate. An there have been many clashes of that nature on SF
 
Time for some serious proofs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof

Gödel's ontological proof
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gödel's ontological proof is a formalization of Saint Anselm's ontological argument for God's existence by the mathematician Kurt Gödel.

St. Anselm's ontological argument, in its most succinct form, is as follows: "God, by definition, is that than which a greater cannot be thought. God exists in the understanding. If God exists in the understanding, we could imagine Him to be greater by existing in reality. Therefore, God must exist." A more elaborate version was given by Gottfried Leibniz; this is the version that Gödel studied and attempted to clarify with his ontological argument.

Although Gödel was religious[citation needed], he never published his proof because he feared that it would be mistaken as establishing God's existence beyond doubt. Instead, he only saw it as a logical investigation and a clean formulation of Leibniz' argument with all assumptions spelled out. He repeatedly showed the argument to friends around 1970; it was published in 1987, nine years after his death.

Contents [hide]
1 The Proof
2 Modal logic
3 Axioms
4 Derivation
5 Critique of definitions and axioms
6 See also
7 References
8 External links



[edit] The Proof
Symbolically:




[edit] Modal logic
The proof uses modal logic, which distinguishes between necessary truths and contingent truths.

A truth is necessary if its negation entails a contradiction, such as 2 + 2 = 4; by contrast, a contingent truth just happens to be the case, for instance "more than half of the earth is covered by water". In the most common interpretation of modal logic, one considers "all possible worlds". If a statement is true in all possible worlds, then it is a necessary truth. If a statement happens to be true in our world, but is not true in all other worlds, then it is a contingent truth. A statement that is true in some world (not necessarily our own) is called a possible truth.

A property assigns to each object, in every possible world, a truth value (either true or false). Note that not all worlds have the same objects: some objects exist in some worlds and not in others. A property has only to assign truth values to those objects that exist in a particular world. As an example, consider the property

P(x) = x is pink
and consider the object

s = my shirt
In our world, P(s) is true because my shirt happens to be pink; in some other world, P(s) is false, while in still some other world, P(s) wouldn't make sense because my shirt doesn't exist there.

We say that the property P entails the property Q, if any object in any world that has the property P in that world also has the property Q in that same world. For example, the property

P(x) = x is taller than 2 meters
entails the property

Q(x) = x is taller than 1 meter.

[edit] Axioms
We first assume the following axiom:

Axiom 1: It is possible to single out positive properties from among all properties. Gödel defines a positive property rather vaguely: "Positive means positive in the moral aesthetic sense (independently of the accidental structure of the world)... It may also mean pure attribution as opposed to privation (or containing privation)." (Gödel 1995)
We then assume that the following three conditions hold for all positive properties (which can be summarized by saying "the positive properties form an ultrafilter"):

Axiom 2: If P is positive and P entails Q, then Q is positive.
Axiom 3: If P1, P2, P3, ..., Pn are positive properties, then the property (P1 AND P2 AND P3 ... AND Pn) is positive as well.
Axiom 4: If P is a property, then either P or its negation is positive, but not both.
Finally, we assume:

Axiom 5: Necessary existence is a positive property (Pos(NE)). This mirrors the key assumption in Anselm's argument.
Now we define a new property G: if x is an object in some possible world, then G(x) is true if and only if P(x) is true in that same world for all positive properties P. G is called the "God-like" property. An object x that has the God-like property is called God.


[edit] Derivation
From axioms 1 through 4, Gödel argued that in some possible world there exists God. He used a sort of modal plenitude principle to argue this from the logical consistency of Godlikeness. Note that this property is itself positive, since it is the conjunction of the (infinitely many) positive properties.

Then, Gödel defined essences: if x is an object in some world, then the property P is said to be an essence of x if P(x) is true in that world and if P entails all other properties that x has in that world. We also say that x necessarily exists if for every essence P the following is true: in every possible world, there is an element y with P(y).

Since necessary existence is positive, it must follow from Godlikeness. Moreover, Godlikeness is an essence of God, since it entails all positive properties, and any nonpositive property is the negation of some positive property, so God cannot have any nonpositive properties. Since any Godlike object is necessarily existent, it follows that any Godlike object in one world is a Godlike object in all worlds, by the definition of necessary existence. Given the existence of a Godlike object in one world, proven above, we may conclude that there is a Godlike object in every possible world, as required.

From these hypotheses, it is also possible to prove that there is only one God in each world: by identity of indiscernibles, no two distinct objects can have precisely the same properties, and so there can only be one object in each world that possesses property G. Gödel did not attempt to do so however, as he purposely limited his proof to the issue of existence, rather than uniqueness. This was more to preserve the logical precision of the argument than due to a penchant for polytheism. This uniqueness proof will only work if one supposes that the positiveness of a property is independent of the object to which it is applied, a claim which some have considered to be suspect.


[edit] Critique of definitions and axioms
There are several reasons Gödel's axioms may not be realistic, including the following:

It may be impossible to properly satisfy axiom 3, which assumes that a conjunction of positive properties is also a positive property; for the proof to work, the axiom must be taken to apply to arbitrary, not necessarily finite, collections of properties. Moreover, some positive properties may be incompatible with others. For example mercy may be incompatible with justice. In that case the conjunction would be an impossible property and G(x) would be false of every x. Ted Drange has made this objection to the coherence of attributing all positive properties to God - see this article for Drange's list of incompatible properties and some counter arguments. For these reasons, this axiom was replaced in some reworkings of the proof (including Anderson's, below) by the assumption that G(x) is positive (Pos(G(x)).
The set of all properties of any object a as a candidate for the set of all positive properties is always consistent with axioms 1–4 concerning positive properties, because the true statements P(a) form a class of statements closed under deduction. Any one property could be claimed to be positive, so long as it is not self-contradictory, with the right choice of a. Specifically, any property that can be possessed without contradiction is positive in some model of axioms 1–4, and any property that can be avoided without contradiction is non-positive in some model of axioms 1–4. Positivity of a property is as implicitly defined as anything can get. Why, then, should any one property (such as the one addressed in axiom 5) be assumed to be positive, given that no such statement is ever a tautology (although it can be a contradiction if the property is unsatisfiable)? Note that, with the right choice of axiom 5, all sorts of things could be proven (see also the objection below), an error common in some form to all ontological arguments. This problem with axiom 5 is a logically inescapable point, and is similar to the demonstration that, in the deontic logic of Ernst Mally, a statement is morally necessary if and only if it is true.
It was argued by Jordan Sobel that Gödel's axioms are too strong: they imply that all possible worlds are identical. He proved this result by considering the property "is such that X is true", where X is any true modal statement about the world. If g is a Godlike object, and X is in fact true, then g must possess this property, and hence must possess it necessarily. But then X is a necessary truth. A similar argument shows that all falsehoods are necessary falsehoods. C. Anthony Anderson gave a slightly different axiomatic system which attempts to avoid this problem.
In Anderson's system, Axioms 1, 2, and 5 above are unchanged; however the other axioms are replaced with:

Axiom 3': G(x) is positive.
Axiom 4': If a property is positive, its negation is not positive.
These axioms leave open the possibility that a Godlike object will possess some non-positive properties, provided that these properties are contingent rather than necessary.
 
I'm afraid your attack on my ideology does not constitute a rationale argument. This is fairly typical, Myles. I was speaking to someone else What exactly you're addressing in my post is dubious at best. Ultimately it appears to be some sort of attention getting tactic.

If you feel engaging never reveals any knowledge the question is invariably why do you seek engagement?

Any man may easily do harm, but not every man can do good to another.~ Plato

This quote has a two fold meaning here. In regards to you and in regards to my previous statement. It is your intent to do harm, it's easy but doing good to another is a action which is sorely lacking. Similarly man in general behaves such as you often do. Instigating, aggression and persecuting are traits that anyone and everyone is capable of.

However finding a true meeting of the minds makes for a unique and desireable person. We are not born that way. We must be taught. That is my point...the question is what was yours?

From my experience of talking to you on here, you wouldn't know a rational argument if you tripped over one. You have previously spoken of angels and , on another thread, your response to someone who disagreed with you was "WE ARE TALKING OF THINGS BEYOND HUMAN UNDERSTANDING" Now that's what I call a rational argument.

As you quote Plato, how many of HIS gods do you worship ?
 
Time for some serious proofs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof

Gödel's ontological proof
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gödel's ontological proof is a formalization of Saint Anselm's ontological argument for God's existence by the mathematician Kurt Gödel.

St. Anselm's ontological argument, in its most succinct form, is as follows: "God, by definition, is that than which a greater cannot be thought. God exists in the understanding. If God exists in the understanding, we could imagine Him to be greater by existing in reality. Therefore, God must exist." A more elaborate version was given by Gottfried Leibniz; this is the version that Gödel studied and attempted to clarify with his ontological argument.

Although Gödel was religious[citation needed], he never published his proof because he feared that it would be mistaken as establishing God's existence beyond doubt. Instead, he only saw it as a logical investigation and a clean formulation of Leibniz' argument with all assumptions spelled out. He repeatedly showed the argument to friends around 1970; it was published in 1987, nine years after his death.

Contents [hide]
1 The Proof
2 Modal logic
3 Axioms
4 Derivation
5 Critique of definitions and axioms
6 See also
7 References
8 External links



[edit] The Proof
Symbolically:




[edit] Modal logic
The proof uses modal logic, which distinguishes between necessary truths and contingent truths.

A truth is necessary if its negation entails a contradiction, such as 2 + 2 = 4; by contrast, a contingent truth just happens to be the case, for instance "more than half of the earth is covered by water". In the most common interpretation of modal logic, one considers "all possible worlds". If a statement is true in all possible worlds, then it is a necessary truth. If a statement happens to be true in our world, but is not true in all other worlds, then it is a contingent truth. A statement that is true in some world (not necessarily our own) is called a possible truth.

A property assigns to each object, in every possible world, a truth value (either true or false). Note that not all worlds have the same objects: some objects exist in some worlds and not in others. A property has only to assign truth values to those objects that exist in a particular world. As an example, consider the property

P(x) = x is pink
and consider the object

s = my shirt
In our world, P(s) is true because my shirt happens to be pink; in some other world, P(s) is false, while in still some other world, P(s) wouldn't make sense because my shirt doesn't exist there.

We say that the property P entails the property Q, if any object in any world that has the property P in that world also has the property Q in that same world. For example, the property

P(x) = x is taller than 2 meters
entails the property

Q(x) = x is taller than 1 meter.

[edit] Axioms
We first assume the following axiom:

Axiom 1: It is possible to single out positive properties from among all properties. Gödel defines a positive property rather vaguely: "Positive means positive in the moral aesthetic sense (independently of the accidental structure of the world)... It may also mean pure attribution as opposed to privation (or containing privation)." (Gödel 1995)
We then assume that the following three conditions hold for all positive properties (which can be summarized by saying "the positive properties form an ultrafilter"):

Axiom 2: If P is positive and P entails Q, then Q is positive.
Axiom 3: If P1, P2, P3, ..., Pn are positive properties, then the property (P1 AND P2 AND P3 ... AND Pn) is positive as well.
Axiom 4: If P is a property, then either P or its negation is positive, but not both.
Finally, we assume:

Axiom 5: Necessary existence is a positive property (Pos(NE)). This mirrors the key assumption in Anselm's argument.
Now we define a new property G: if x is an object in some possible world, then G(x) is true if and only if P(x) is true in that same world for all positive properties P. G is called the "God-like" property. An object x that has the God-like property is called God.


[edit] Derivation
From axioms 1 through 4, Gödel argued that in some possible world there exists God. He used a sort of modal plenitude principle to argue this from the logical consistency of Godlikeness. Note that this property is itself positive, since it is the conjunction of the (infinitely many) positive properties.

Then, Gödel defined essences: if x is an object in some world, then the property P is said to be an essence of x if P(x) is true in that world and if P entails all other properties that x has in that world. We also say that x necessarily exists if for every essence P the following is true: in every possible world, there is an element y with P(y).

Since necessary existence is positive, it must follow from Godlikeness. Moreover, Godlikeness is an essence of God, since it entails all positive properties, and any nonpositive property is the negation of some positive property, so God cannot have any nonpositive properties. Since any Godlike object is necessarily existent, it follows that any Godlike object in one world is a Godlike object in all worlds, by the definition of necessary existence. Given the existence of a Godlike object in one world, proven above, we may conclude that there is a Godlike object in every possible world, as required.

From these hypotheses, it is also possible to prove that there is only one God in each world: by identity of indiscernibles, no two distinct objects can have precisely the same properties, and so there can only be one object in each world that possesses property G. Gödel did not attempt to do so however, as he purposely limited his proof to the issue of existence, rather than uniqueness. This was more to preserve the logical precision of the argument than due to a penchant for polytheism. This uniqueness proof will only work if one supposes that the positiveness of a property is independent of the object to which it is applied, a claim which some have considered to be suspect.


[edit] Critique of definitions and axioms
There are several reasons Gödel's axioms may not be realistic, including the following:

It may be impossible to properly satisfy axiom 3, which assumes that a conjunction of positive properties is also a positive property; for the proof to work, the axiom must be taken to apply to arbitrary, not necessarily finite, collections of properties. Moreover, some positive properties may be incompatible with others. For example mercy may be incompatible with justice. In that case the conjunction would be an impossible property and G(x) would be false of every x. Ted Drange has made this objection to the coherence of attributing all positive properties to God - see this article for Drange's list of incompatible properties and some counter arguments. For these reasons, this axiom was replaced in some reworkings of the proof (including Anderson's, below) by the assumption that G(x) is positive (Pos(G(x)).
The set of all properties of any object a as a candidate for the set of all positive properties is always consistent with axioms 1–4 concerning positive properties, because the true statements P(a) form a class of statements closed under deduction. Any one property could be claimed to be positive, so long as it is not self-contradictory, with the right choice of a. Specifically, any property that can be possessed without contradiction is positive in some model of axioms 1–4, and any property that can be avoided without contradiction is non-positive in some model of axioms 1–4. Positivity of a property is as implicitly defined as anything can get. Why, then, should any one property (such as the one addressed in axiom 5) be assumed to be positive, given that no such statement is ever a tautology (although it can be a contradiction if the property is unsatisfiable)? Note that, with the right choice of axiom 5, all sorts of things could be proven (see also the objection below), an error common in some form to all ontological arguments. This problem with axiom 5 is a logically inescapable point, and is similar to the demonstration that, in the deontic logic of Ernst Mally, a statement is morally necessary if and only if it is true.
It was argued by Jordan Sobel that Gödel's axioms are too strong: they imply that all possible worlds are identical. He proved this result by considering the property "is such that X is true", where X is any true modal statement about the world. If g is a Godlike object, and X is in fact true, then g must possess this property, and hence must possess it necessarily. But then X is a necessary truth. A similar argument shows that all falsehoods are necessary falsehoods. C. Anthony Anderson gave a slightly different axiomatic system which attempts to avoid this problem.
In Anderson's system, Axioms 1, 2, and 5 above are unchanged; however the other axioms are replaced with:

Axiom 3': G(x) is positive.
Axiom 4': If a property is positive, its negation is not positive.
These axioms leave open the possibility that a Godlike object will possess some non-positive properties, provided that these properties are contingent rather than necessary.


For goodness sake, do you ever look for philosophical arguments which do not support your beliefs. Do you examine what you believe ?

Anselms argument is as you say and it was used by others. Kant dealt it the death blow by pointing out that "existence" is not an attribute. If you want o know more see his Critique of Pure Reason
 
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