Prerequisites for Spiritual Knowledge

[S.A.M.]

Again, you miss the point entirely. The whole point of my statement is that my words or internal knowledge is irrelevant to the reality of the 10,000 volts! You have inadvertently supported my position! Voltage is a completely objective (strict definition) phenomenon and will fry you whether you "accept" it or not. Your internal beliefs, in and of themselves, can not be objectively proven! You have a headache? How am I to know? My point exactly!

You have spiritual enlightenment? How am I to know? Just like your headache. I have you word. That's it. Show me an external physical mechanism for the transmission of "spiritual" knowledge into your brain.

Wires totally crossed here.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I have a headache.

True or False?

I don't know.

 

[S.A.M.]

Reality is as objective as it gets. Your interpretation of reality is both objective and subjective.

So which one is correct?

Meme's have those extra qualities of being infectious and resistant.

Interesting how your objective reality includes memes but my objective/subjective reality does not.

 

[S.A.M.]

I don't know.

This is absolute reality.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

So which one is correct?

Whichever one reality verifies.

Interesting how your objective reality includes memes but my objective/subjective reality does not.

The phenomena is observable so it is what it is.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

This is absolute reality.

I hear it goes mad-crazy subjective when LSD or magical thinking are applied.

 

[S.A.M.]

Whichever one reality verifies.

The phenomena is observable so it is what it is.

The phenomenon is nonexistent as a construct. It defies basic ontology. i.e. a meme is itself a meme.

 

[S.A.M.]

I hear it goes mad-crazy subjective when LSD or magical thinking are applied.

You mean if you had Lucy you could tell if I had a headache?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

The phenomenon is nonexistent as a construct. It defies basic ontology. i.e. a meme is itself a meme.

It's the effect of information on human behavior and yes the very concept of a meme is a meme.

 

[superluminal]

Wires totally crossed here.

Yup.

You are focusing on the inability of the ancient aboriginal to extract meaning from the concept of a "round earth".

I am focusing on the certainty that it makes no difference regarding the actual shape of the earth. The aboriginals "acceptance" of a flat earth may be accepted by all and will lead him to very real consequences. Like not launching a sea expedition due to the "certainty" that the sea extends infinitely, or to some bottomless drop-off.

Your acceptance of "spirituality" and god could be easily leading you to seriously wrong conclusions about the nature of the cosmos, with serious consequences. Like your less well-restrained christian, jewish, or muslim compatriots.

Ther is really only one advantage I can see to rationalism vs spirituality. I will not mistakenly forego a sea voyage and all of the opportunities it could bring. I will have done my best to ascertain the real shape of the earth. You will accept the ancient wisdom (as you most certainly do) and most likely be left behind.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yup.

You are focusing on the inability of the ancient aboriginal to extract meaning from the concept of a "round earth".

I am focusing on the certainty that it makes no difference regarding the actual shape of the earth. The aboriginals "acceptance" of a flat earth may be accepted by all and will lead him to very real consequences. Like not launching a sea expedition due to the "certainty" that the sea extends infinitely, or to some bottomless drop-off.

Your acceptance of "spirituality" and god could be easily leading you to seriously wrong conclusions about the nature of the cosmos, with serious consequences. Like your less well-restrained christian, jewish, or muslim compatriots.

Ther is really only one advantage I can see to rationalism vs spirituality. I will not mistakenly forego a sea voyage and all of the opportunities it could bring. I will have done my best to ascertain the real shape of the earth. You will accept the ancient wisdom (as you most certainly do) and most likely be left behind.

Exactly. Perception cannot define knowledge, which is what I am saying.

 

[S.A.M.]

It's the effect of information on human behavior and yes the very concept of a meme is a meme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme#Criticisms

 

[Crunchy Cat]

You mean if you had Lucy you could tell if I had a headache?

If I had Lucy I could fly and watch the showdown of IPU (may her hooves never be shod) vs FSM (blessed are those touched by his noodly appendage).

 

[superluminal]

Exactly. Perception cannot define knowledge, which is what I am saying.

Holy cow.

Sam, do you know what antimatter is? And what happens when equal amounts of matter and antimatter are brought into contact? If not, google it.

I gotta go to bed.

 

[S.A.M.]

Holy cow.

Sam, do you know what antimatter is? And what happens when equal amounts of matter and antimatter are brought into contact? If not, google it.

I gotta go to bed.

I tricked you. You were the aborigine. G'nite

 

[Crunchy Cat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme#Criticisms

Yep, I've read it. There are lots of valid criticisms and there is supportive evidence. What this tends to mean in theortical terms is that the model needs some adjustment.

 

[superluminal]

I tricked you. You were the aborigine. G'nite

Thanks. *tosses boomerang in sam's direction*

Night.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yep, I've read it. There are lots of valid criticisms and there is supportive evidence. What this tends to mean in theortical terms is that the model needs some adjustment.

The model is insupportable because only the model can support itself. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

The model is insupportable because only the model can support itself. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.

Observation of human behavior can and do support the model. Come on, you're just being silly now.

 

[S.A.M.]

Observation of human behavior can and do support the model. Come on, you're just being silly now.

There are much better constructs of human behaviour than memes. Memes by themselves generate no new understanding or information than those generated by other more layered constructs that define human behaviour.

Like the link says, if memes are the answer, what is the problem?

But you're right its outside the scope of this discussion.