Bells
Staff member
The only people I know who allowed the sexual molestation of their children to occur, and continue because they either failed to remove the children from the same house as the molester or failed to remove the molester from the home were charged for their crime.I too know parents who have turned to law enforcement and professional help to deal with extreme behaviors, but not until a lot of time was first spent in the home attempting to deal with it.
Which means that in your mind, if a child is molested, if there is no harm, in your opinion, then you do not see it as "abusive behaviour".I don’t assess abusive behavior based on sexual content, I asses abusive behavior on its degree of harm.
Which means raping someone while they sleep, molesting them while they sleep, incest is not abusive behaviour because you need to see a degree of harm before you deem it to be abusive behaviour.
And it is perverted. Especially when one realises that you are making this argument about child sexual molestation.
An older brother, in a household that teaches its daughters that they are secondary, that they have to remain pure and meek, that the men in their lives are in a dominant position above them, that if they are sexually assaulted, molested or raped, then it is ultimately their fault, molests his younger sisters and a babysitter. Sometimes while they slept, other times while they were awake.To suggest as you do, that because an action that was no physical threat and possibly only a minor emotional threat, deserved to be addressed in such an aggressive manner demonstrates a hypersensitive reaction to this situation. Incest and molestation, like other forms of undesirable behavior must be judged by their degree and nature of engagement, which means that corrective action needs to be proportional to the offense.
And you do not see that as being physically threatening or even harmful and threatening to those girls?
So much so that you view my and society's reaction to incest as being "hypersensitive"?
What proportional response would you have for someone who molested a 5 year old girl? Tell her that she has to forgive him? Because that is what happened to that little girl, and her older sisters when they were molested.
Are you seriously and actually trying to normalise incest, sexually molesting children and sex abuse again?I think its normal for human beings to attempt to satisfy their desires and curiosity, and in doing so test the limits of social acceptability. I think this is basis for Josh’s behavior, and that he was fortunate that his forays were halted before they developed into something more serious.
No, Capracus, molesting your sleeping sisters is not "normal" behaviour, no matter how curious they are or how much desire they might have for sexual contact.
Sexually molesting children and incest is serious. Very serious. His repeated attempts to do it, while they slept and while they were awake screams "serious".
Yes Capracus, they allowed it.They allowed it? They were trying to deal with it, and when they felt they weren’t up to the task they got outside help. They didn’t assume the worst like you, and until they encountered additional incidents they reasonably assumed he wasn’t offending.
When they first learned of it, they did nothing about it in regards to Josh and this is by their own admittance. It was only after he then molested the babysitter that they punished him. When he went on and kept on molesting, he still remained in the house, with his victims, who were made to and told by their patriarchal father to forgive him for his sins. Instead of first addressing it with their son, the parents took it to the victims and placed the onus on them to not be abused. Not on Josh to not abuse.
That's why it is deemed sexual assault, Capracus.So any act that can legally be defined as sexual assault is to be considered worthy of aggressive legal and psychological intervention?
And illegal.
Not all acts of criminal assault are equal, sexual or otherwise, and most people will have a standard, hopefully a reasonable one, that must be met before they are willing to take such aggressive action.
Since you do not see it as sexual assault if incest and child molestation occurs when the child is fully dressed and/or asleep, what "standard" do you have when it comes to sexual assault, incest or child molestation?
Do you see it as sexual assault if a child is raped while she sleeps and isn't aware of what happened?
What about an adult? Or what about in a case where the child is molested as a baby before it is aware of what is going on and isn't physically harmed?
Are you suggesting that domestic violence between two adults in the same as two children arguing and fighting?Should you call the cops every time one child slaps another? Or every time a wife slaps a husband, no matter how forcefully applied? Is their no room for discretion in your world?
Or are you just normalising and diminishing domestic violence in general?
And tell me why you don't think having victims brought up in a household like those girls were brought up in, where they were not allowed to complain, report it or even, heaven forbid, not forgive him, is not harmful in and of itself.Tell me why you try to maximize it? Why do you keep trying to turn what even the victims describe as a minimal act into something more that it actually is? Why can’t you accept that it’s normal for families to deal with their failings internally and to try to minimize their exposure?
What you fail to realise or take note of is the context. That these girls are brought up in a household that is in itself tantamount to abuse. All the elements of abuse is there. Control, dominance, the expectation that they are secondary and must always comply with the men in their lives. And you wonder why they minimised it?
They were made to forgive him, right when this started:
KELLY: Did you feel scared at all that he might resume?
DILLARD: You know, when this happened, when my dad and mom sat down with us and shared what happened and Josh asked us to forgive him, we had to make that choice that I think everyone has to make and my dad explained to us, he said you know there’s a difference between forgiveness and trust. That’s not the same thing. You know, you forgive someone and then you have boundaries. Forgiveness with boundaries and so trust comes later. You know, Josh destroyed that trust at the beginning, and so he had to rebuild that. And so I think when he came back, that was his — that was his point of, okay — well, actually, when he asked us to forgive him, that was the point of rebuilding.
KELLY: That was the beginning. What were the safeguards that were put into place just to make sure?
DILLARD: I was going to say not, you know, being alone. My parents said, okay, we’re not going to do this hide and seek thing where two people go off and hide together — and not baby-sitting the girls.
DILLARD: You know, when this happened, when my dad and mom sat down with us and shared what happened and Josh asked us to forgive him, we had to make that choice that I think everyone has to make and my dad explained to us, he said you know there’s a difference between forgiveness and trust. That’s not the same thing. You know, you forgive someone and then you have boundaries. Forgiveness with boundaries and so trust comes later. You know, Josh destroyed that trust at the beginning, and so he had to rebuild that. And so I think when he came back, that was his — that was his point of, okay — well, actually, when he asked us to forgive him, that was the point of rebuilding.
KELLY: That was the beginning. What were the safeguards that were put into place just to make sure?
DILLARD: I was going to say not, you know, being alone. My parents said, okay, we’re not going to do this hide and seek thing where two people go off and hide together — and not baby-sitting the girls.
Imagine the pressure on these girls, who were brought up in a strictly patriarchal household, where their father and the men in the house are always dominant, where they are expected to be meek and complaint, having their parents tell them about how they should forgive him.. It was never a choice. To not forgive was not an option. And then the onus was placed on them to not be assaulted.
And you seem surprised that people find this disturbing? And you keep arguing that it was only minimal sexual molestation? Really?
Everyone knew that his victims would have reacted that way. It isn't their fault.It must be a bit frustrating when your designated victims refuse to go along with your hypersensitive narrative.
[snip]
How dare they interpret events that they were personally involved in differently than you.
These girls were brought up in a household that gave them zero choices or options. They did not have the choice of confiding in someone about it, they were never given those options that children often have in cases of incest, molestation and abuse. Teachers, friends, school counselors, for example. All of these were out of the question for these girls. Who they spoke to, everything they did was restricted. They were even taught that they were to blame for any sexual assault or abuse that occurred. The onus was always placed on them, as girls, to not be abused.
Those girls are a tragedy and their parents are absolutely to blame.
And really, Capracus, you should be ashamed of yourself, crowing with pride and happiness that victims of incest and sexual abuse are sticking to a narrative that benefits the abuser. That's pretty sick, to be honest.
First you crowed about the parents protecting and lying to hide the molestation, and then you praised a paedophile for hiding and protecting the molester and now you are crowing that the girls are responding exactly like many abused children who are brought up in that sort of environment would respond. It's sad. Not to mention perverted.