Pornography

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Glad to be of service Wanderer.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Wanderer why do we have to clog up the legal system with granting rights to those who are already consenting? The legal system should be reserved to the infringement of rights.

 

[David Mayes]

It's gotten so bad that you cannot even comprehend that a judgement can be made independant of morality - and insist that it's simply a "immoral" or "complacent" judgement.

Xev.

I don't buy it.
Your indifference or complacent judgements are not direct attacks against the established order, you mainly prefer to whinge about how tough or rough your life is rather than realize you're probably living a priviliged life and are a product of your circumstances in your youth, IOW, it was effectively luck.
Don't gimme some BS about intelligence, Ted Bundy was intelligent.

Do you doubt this, believe in the innate goodness of man? Look at the depictions of sex that you critique.

As a primary quality, this actualization requires the necessary favourable conditions for productive growth and the development of what I call the Positive Psychological milieu, the polar opposite is a negative milieu which is developed during a pathogenic upbringing.

So sick people are made by an inadequate society relying on a flawed and limited paradigm, that most people are fucked up is because our dominant models are fucked up, this leads to frequent examples of disturbing childhoods where the secondary potentiality is actualized, ie, destructiveness, or a polluted milieu.

 

[David Mayes]

More the result of rampant procreation with no controlling predator to keep the herd healthy and efficient.
Homosexuality, is to say the least, an inefficient expenditure of energy and time.

Wanderer.

huh?...what type of predator would feast on the homo's...LOL?

Another example is eye problems.

I think it's foolish for two people who are handicapped to create another handicapped person, as such i'm in favour of positive eugenics, but it's a choice to be made by the parents, although that choice will be influenced by societal pressures so the choice isn't entirely independent of societies wishes.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Quote:As a primary quality, this actualization requires the necessary favourable conditions for productive growth and the development of what I call the Positive Psychological milieu, the polar opposite is a negative milieu which is developed during a pathogenic upbringing.

So David how does one create a positive psychological milieu in a degraded society? There is no way to provoke growth in large numbers of people only in individuals and the individual coming from a bad childhood or what have you may or may not take on the difficult task of personal growth, health and well being. The sick have to know they are sick and desire something else. I don't think it necessary to worry about the ill or maladjusted only those who are struggling towards self-discovery and healing.

 

[Xev]

David:

Xev.
I don't buy it.
Your indifference or complacent judgements are not direct attacks against the established order, you mainly prefer to whinge about how tough or rough your life is rather than realize you're probably living a priviliged life and are a product of your circumstances in your youth, IOW, it was effectively luck.
Don't gimme some BS about intelligence, Ted Bundy was intelligent.

Why should I care to better the quality of life for the many?

So sick people are made by an inadequate society relying on a flawed and limited paradigm, that most people are fucked up is because our dominant models are fucked up, this leads to frequent examples of disturbing childhoods where the secondary potentiality is actualized, ie, destructiveness, or a polluted milieu.

Naw. Sexual inequality is an iron law of nature.
Look at history. Women have had inferior status in most cultures, the exceptions - the Norse, the Egyptians, the Sarmantians - simply proving the norm.
Being physically vulnerable leads to exploitation. The lion picks off the gazelle that can't run as fast as the other gazelles.
Women, already at a disadvantage for not being physically as stong (on average) are further weakened by the long pregnency and period of childhood dependancy that a species of our intelligence requires. Hence the gender is as a whole despised - weakness is naturally looked upon with disdain - from Chinese footbinding practices to genital mutilation in modern Africa and the Mid-East.
Why should contemporary culture be any different?

You create fancy scenerios. I look at the facts. You avoid the unpleasant; being unpleasent myself, I revel in it. Truth is harsh, I understand, but living a convoluted lie is a poor substitute.

Lucysnow:

What was the purpose of slaughtering the helots? Didn't the Spartans need them for labor?

The helots had a tendancy to over-breed.
Or perhaps the Spartans were just bored. I remember this from a history class, but I can't find any reference to it now.

huh?...what type of predator would feast on the homo's...LOL?

A homo-cidal one.

 

[David Mayes]

So David how does one create a positive psychological milieu in a degraded society?

As I believe it's heavily developed during the formative and uncritical yrs of birth to 3, a person cannot create it for themselves.
If they've been the beneficiary of it, they would be horrified at how the world behaves and would be forced into a variety of avenues to enable them to withstand the onslaught of worthless and stupid behaviours.

It's my view that many of the mentally ill are intuitively aware of the problem, yet their powers of reason aren't sufficiently developed to protect them, so they are effectively forced into mental collapse and avoidance of the disturbed reality...psychatrists demonize the mentally ill as trying to escape/avoid reality without considering whether the problem might actually be with people at large and the system{reality}, hence psychatrists will help you adjust, this adjustment is to a pathological system....this is why drugs are necessary.

I don't think it necessary to worry about the ill or maladjusted only those who are struggling towards self-discovery and healing.

Of course you don't, you're a social darwinist.

 

[James R]

Homosexuality, is to say the least, an inefficient expenditure of energy and time. There’s no result and pleasure, geared to promote reproduction, is castrated to an act of entertainment.

What proportion of heterosexual sex acts lead to reproduction, do you think?

It’s telling how the act of male on male penetration, more a sign of domination than love in the wild, has come to represent an alternative expression of intimacy.
But I guess if you like having a cock shoved up your ass and you call it love, you aren’t the brightest of minds.

I guess that's just your prejudice speaking. You don't have anything to actually support that, do you?

What sort of extreme ageism makes us disrespect the will of the adolescent or infant.
If a child wants to have sex with a consenting adult then who are we to stand in the way of love?

Have you ever heard of the term "informed consent"?
Do you understand the concept behind it?
Can you see the difference between sex between two consenting adults and what you're talking about here?
If not, time to start thinking.

If an adult chooses to not give his cadaver to science but to donate it to a loving companion as a love puppet then who are we to say what is weird or bizarre and what is normal?

Very true.

If a pet lover wants to take his/her relationship with a favourite animal companion a step further into carnal lust, then who are we to judge?

Did the pet give informed consent? I don't think so. See the difference between this and your previous example?

So in the name of compassion and equal rights let us offer our understanding and support for those that choose to express their physical desire in alternate ways.

Yes, let's.

We have started on the road of equality and justice so let us follow through until the end, fairness demands it.

Right on!

Let our streets be filled with happy horny well-hung horses and un-thirsty piss-lovers; let our homes be the refuge of exhilarated child lovers and the reverberating echoes of whips and screams of pleasurable pain; let fudge-packers and dykes adopt and raise children and let death not be the end of a sexual relationship.

You're mixing up things which are morally repugnant with things which are harmless. Time you learned the difference, don't you think? I'm happy to answer questions.

 

[WANDERER]

What proportion of heterosexual sex acts lead to reproduction, do you think?

In todays fucked-up world? Very few.
Should modern practices be representative for natural drives?
Man today is so cut-off from nature, especially his inner one, and reality that it’s a wonder we aren’t all cannibals.

I guess that's just your prejudice speaking. You don't have anything to actually support that, do you?

Are you saying there are gay dogs and faggot ferrets or that there are lesbian lemurs and dyke ducks?
I know that in dogs the male on male or sometimes female on male/female humping motion or even when a dog humps a leg, is a sign of symbolic dominance.

Have you ever heard of the term "informed consent"?
Do you understand the concept behind it?
Can you see the difference between sex between two consenting adults and what you're talking about here?
If not, time to start thinking.

And its time for you to get a sense of humor.
Have you heard of the term: ‘sarcasm’?
Look it up, the Greeks perfected it.

Informed consent?! Are you still working that piece of candy around in your mouth James?
Define informed and how you know said animal or adolescent is not so.
Are you prejudice against ignorant people?
I then suggest that we not allow morons and imbeciles to have sex with each other either.
But that would include 90% of humanity and perhaps, I dare say, even you.

What about the inherit ageism in the notion of ‘adult’?
Are we discriminating against people based on what we believe their maturity is and what is maturity anyways?
Do you believe your “adults” are informed?
Wow, you are deluded!

So I guess you don’t have a problem with necrophilia if the cadaver was given with the consent of the owner or for equal rights for sadomasochists if they are adult and informed?

Did the pet give informed consent? I don't think so. See the difference between this and your previous example?

In a universe of different methods of communication why are we discriminating against forms of communication that is not verbal?
A dog wagging its tail can be a form of consent,
Are you a bigot James?!
Equal rights for all beings!!!!!
Why stop at gay marriages?
Let cats marry humans, and corpses enter into holy matrimony with living bodies.
Let us truly seek out equal rights for all!!!! Damn it!

You're mixing up things which are morally repugnant with things which are harmless. Time you learned the difference, don't you think? I'm happy to answer questions.

Morally repugnant! MORALLY REPUGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who decides what is moral, you James, the state or your local church?
Now who is being prejudiced?
You’ve divided the world into morally acceptable and morally unacceptable and you call me prejudiced?!!!
Who’s getting hurt in sex, in any form of it other than masochism?
If a child consents to enter into a sexual relationship with an adult then who gets hurt?
Vaginal penetration is pleasant James, you should try it. It doesn’t hurt.
If it bleeds it needs and if it can get it up it can get it on, baby!!!!

You are a prude James and a prude with no sense of humor is a sad, sad thing.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Quote: it’s a wonder we aren’t all cannibals.

Speak for yourself. Why do you think its fucked up that heterosexual activity doesnt lead to reproduction? The world is overpopulated as it is.

Quote:If a child consents to enter into a sexual relationship with an adult then who gets hurt?
Vaginal penetration is pleasant James, you should try it. It doesn’t hurt.
If it bleeds it needs and if it can get it up it can get it on, baby!!!!

How do you define child? A child is not in a position to consent to a sexual relationship with an adult. If it is indeed a child then yes penetration will hurt. Don't you think one should wait until said childs body is prepared for the activity?

 

[James R]

Wanderer:

"What proportion of heterosexual sex acts lead to reproduction, do you think?"

In todays fucked-up world? Very few.
Should modern practices be representative for natural drives?
Man today is so cut-off from nature, especially his inner one, and reality that it’s a wonder we aren’t all cannibals.

Oh, are we talking about nature now? Most sex acts between animals don't result in procreation either. Let's face it: sex for fun is natural. Procreation is an occasional side-effect.

Are you saying there are gay dogs and faggot ferrets or that there are lesbian lemurs and dyke ducks?

Yes. Look it up. You may be surprised.

I know that in dogs the male on male or sometimes female on male/female humping motion or even when a dog humps a leg, is a sign of symbolic dominance.

How do you know that?

And its time for you to get a sense of humor.
Have you heard of the term: ‘sarcasm’?
Look it up, the Greeks perfected it.

I am very familiar with sarcasm, I assure you.

Informed consent?! Are you still working that piece of candy around in your mouth James?
Define informed and how you know said animal or adolescent is not so.

Informed consent = able to appreciate all the consequences and implications of the act, along with making an active choice to participate.

In law, this would be a standard "reasonable person" test.

Are you prejudice against ignorant people?
I then suggest that we not allow morons and imbeciles to have sex with each other either.
But that would include 90% of humanity and perhaps, I dare say, even you.

I don't know where you're getting that from. And your personal attack doesn't bother me. Those who have no arguments often resort to personal abuse.

What about the inherit ageism in the notion of ‘adult’?
Are we discriminating against people based on what we believe their maturity is and what is maturity anyways?
Do you believe your “adults” are informed?

There are lines to be drawn, certainly. But there is also widespread agreement on what constitutes an "adult", and how informed somebody or something must be to give effective consent to a sexual act.

Wow, you are deluded!

That's funny - I thought you were.

So I guess you don’t have a problem with necrophilia if the cadaver was given with the consent of the owner or for equal rights for sadomasochists if they are adult and informed?

No, I have no problem with that, with the proviso that the "owner" of a cadaver is the person who previously lived in that body.

In a universe of different methods of communication why are we discriminating against forms of communication that is not verbal?
A dog wagging its tail can be a form of consent,

No, I don't think your dog is saying "Ok, give it to me, big boy" when he wags his tail at you. Do you?

Are you a bigot James?!
Equal rights for all beings!!!!!

That would be something of a contradiction in terms, wouldn't it?

Why stop at gay marriages?
Let cats marry humans, and corpses enter into holy matrimony with living bodies.

I thought we were talking about sex, not marriage. Maybe you should start a new thread.

Let us truly seek out equal rights for all!!!! Damn it!

Yes, let's.

Morally repugnant! MORALLY REPUGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who decides what is moral, you James, the state or your local church?

Me, in this case.

Now who is being prejudiced?

Please point out who or what you think I am prejudiced against.

You’ve divided the world into morally acceptable and morally unacceptable and you call me prejudiced?!!!

Everybody does it. In fact, my inital post to you was precisely because I am of the opinion that your moral division is unsustainable.

Who’s getting hurt in sex, in any form of it other than masochism?

Those who have not given or who cannot give informed consent.

If a child consents to enter into a sexual relationship with an adult then who gets hurt?

The child. The child cannot give informed consent.

Vaginal penetration is pleasant James, you should try it.

I don't see how my personal sex life is relevant here.

If it bleeds it needs and if it can get it up it can get it on, baby!!!!

You are a prude James and a prude with no sense of humor is a sad, sad thing.

<i>I'm</i> a prude? I thought it was you who was saying that certain perfectly reasonable sex acts are wrong, not me. You seem confused. I'm far more liberal than you. Haven't you worked that out yet?

 

[Xev]

James, I thought I explained the fallacy of the concept of "rights" and "equal rights" to you long ago. Tsk tsk.

/Edit:
And may I ask my favorite question about liberals -
Why is it acceptable that homosexuals are "born gay" but horrid to assume that some people might be "born criminals"?

 

[James R]

Remind me, Xev.

 

[Xev]

Of course it's an assertion. Rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are granted by mutual agreement. Those rights are only inalienable if people agree that they should be.

Not every society recognises these "rights". Not every society agrees with the premises on which they are supposedly based. They are, however, morally defensible on a number of grounds, and match up with many major moral philsophical systems.

Leaving aside your curious conclusion that one can decide whether a thing is inalienable or not, have you not already accepted that social force is the creator and dictator of "rights"?
How can you object to Wanderer's so-called prudishness on moral grounds?

Pardon, I do hate walking about having to explain the failings of moral judgement to all (see my Ragnar Redbeard thread) but in today's society it seems to be something I am condemned to.

And for that matter:

I thought it was you who was saying that certain perfectly reasonable sex acts are wrong, not me. You seem confused.

Could you explain what is "reasonable" about fucking another man (or woman, for that matter) up the ass? About necrophilia or urinating on one's partner?

Not that sex acts are or should be reasonable. Unless you are constantly propositioned by women: "Oh yes James R, fuck me according to A PRIORI! ANALYTICAL PRINCIPLES"


-
On the whole, it'd probably be more fun to be fucked synthetically.

/Edit:
thread is here: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=12658

 

[David Mayes]

"Oh yes James R, fuck me according to A PRIORI! ANALYTICAL PRINCIPLES"

LOL X 100

 

[James R]

Xev:

Leaving aside your curious conclusion that one can decide whether a thing is inalienable or not, have you not already accepted that social force is the creator and dictator of "rights"?

I don't see why my conclusion about inalienability is curious. But, yes, I accept that "rights" involve a social contract.

How can you object to Wanderer's so-called prudishness on moral grounds?

Can you point me to where you think I did that?

Pardon, I do hate walking about having to explain the failings of moral judgement to all (see my Ragnar Redbeard thread) but in today's society it seems to be something I am condemned to.

What's wrong with moral judgment? If you're saying it is useless because all morals are relative, then you are making a mistake. At a fundamental level, all major systems of morality share a common set of values.

Could you explain what is "reasonable" about fucking another man (or woman, for that matter) up the ass? About necrophilia or urinating on one's partner?

I admit that "reasonable" was not the best choice of word there, so I concede this point. I should have said "harmless".

 

[James R]

David, Just grow up.

 

[Xev]

James R:

David, Just grow up.

Why should he grow up? Men are most charming when they refuse to grow up. It's when they try to act more "grown up", mature and intelligent than they really are that they get annoying.

Can you point me to where you think I did that?

No, I can't. My apologies, I misread.

What's wrong with moral judgment? If you're saying it is useless because all morals are relative, then you are making a mistake. At a fundamental level, all major systems of morality share a common set of values.

My objection to moral judgement is more one to the way of thinking - sterile and overly focused on systemitizing - than to moral judgement per se.
As far as I'm concered, moral judgement is hypocritical and useful. It does, however, inhibit one in pursuit of truth.

 

[David Mayes]

"David, Just grow up."

James you insignificant turd, I've already rejected you as an over-emotional fool....this is my last reply to you.

Btw, I've left this forum as far as serious ongoing commentary is concerned, but may spend 20 mins a day abusing the multitude of idiots that frequent this kindergarten.

Ban or get get ready for some trolling you bunch of turds....LOL.

Don't forget kids, I'm a real philosopher, someone who COMMANDS RESPECT and espouses FULL TRUTH....but virtually none of you have the brains to realize this.

David "FULL TRUTH" Mayes.

 

[James R]

David,

The more you write, the more you confirm my initial assessment of you. I am glad we won't be seeing more of you, since you seem to have little of value to contribute.

Bye!