Pope's Justification For Pedophilia

[wynn]

fundamentally this is wrong..(there are exceptions) but we should take responsibility for our own beliefs and actions..the excuse 'because he told me to' does not hold up.

this line ends up being 'do as your told' vs 'think for yourself'

Are you, as a theist, not offended when other people do not think, feel, speak and do as you want them to?

 

[NMSquirrel]

Are you, as a theist, not offended when other people do not think, feel, speak and do as you want them to?

as a rule no..
i do not believe that we should all act alike, we all have our differences and it is through these differences that we learn and grow from each other, if the world was full of ppl who agree'd with each other,we would stagnate as a species,
IOW I do NOT believe God wants a world full of clones.

as the exception..i hate it when ppl condemn,demean or just plain insult ppl just cause they don't agree with them..

 

[Jan Ardena]

Signal,

Anything that could be considered abuse can also be interpreted as an effort to teach someone a lesson.

"I beat her and forced her to have intercourse with me, so that she may learn who is in charge."
"Yes, I hit the boy, and yes, he bled and then had to get ten stitches. But he needed to be taught a lesson in humility."

Yes, but it is abuse, pure and simple.
An intelligent person will not abuse another person.

How can anyone argue against such justifications for use of force?

They can't, because the abuser is beyond reason.

I am not so sure about that. There are many references on how the spiritual master can do nothing wrong, for example.

Where?

I don't understand that?

It explains everything away.
Even the atheists are happy with that.

That is not my memory of the events. I vividly remember how some American Christians protested in the streets, claiming that GW Bush should not call himself a Christian and that he is misrepresenting Christianity.

Bush claim GOD told him to go to war. From what you say, these protests were about disasociating him from christianity.

I don't understand?
When I see a religious person do something that is generally considered wrong, I am bewildered, and try to find a way to explain why it is not wrong if a religious person does something that would otherwise be considered wrong. If I don't find such an explanation, I feel guilty.

Can you specifically link this type of thinking to any scriptoral injunction?

But how can one know who that is?

Develop understanding through scripture.
Read about great saints, and teachers. Connect the dots.

Who is to say that, for example, Tomas de Torquemada was not an exemplary servant of God, and therefore should be followed or surrendered to?

You try and answer that question.

Were the people who protested the Holy Inquisition not wrong to do so? Or the people who refused to instantly admit what they were accused of?

I've no idea.
Anyway, what does it matter, now?

I have never seen, in any religious establishment or with religious people I have been with, that such freedom would readily be given; and if it was given, it was with a grudge and a threat to take offense.

Then that establishment is not what it appears to be.
At least you were of the mind to discriminate.

Sure. But how do you know that such practices are not in line with what a true servant of God would do?

Did Jesus ever say to his disciples their stupid for not believing what he believes|?

For me, religion/spirituality has always been about anxiously walking a tightrope between making an effort not to offend the theists and maintaining some semblance of sanity.

Then it maybe time to rethink your definition of religion/spirituality.

But given that theists generally take offense very easily, it is very difficult to behave in such a manner that they wouldn't take offense.

This follows on from your definition.

In order to not offend them, I would often have to do things I don't understand or find repugnant.

see above.

If I do things as I see fit, they usually take offense, and I go down as an offender of God's people.

same as above.

To me, most interactions with theists are such that no matter what I would do, I would be wrong and lose.

What type of people would you be right and win, through interaction?

They could also be enlightened and you too delusional to see it.
How then would you avoid causing them offense?

Maybe, but I doubt it.
I don't have time to play footsie, if i'm wrong i'm wrong, but I trust my instinct, and am not too proud to accept if i'm wrong.

jan.

 

[NMSquirrel]

“
How can anyone argue against such justifications for use of force?
”
They can't, because the abuser is beyond reason.

not to pic nits..but there is a difference between force and abuse..

 

[wynn]

not to pic nits..but there is a difference between force and abuse..

Exactly. And this is how anything someone considers to be abuse can get reinterpreted to mean simply a "use of force".

 

[wynn]

How can anyone argue against such justifications for use of force?

They can't, because the abuser is beyond reason.

I posted a thread on the problems of epistemic autonomy here: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=105794
You are most welcome to participate.
The crux is that there seems to be no reason to either subject or refuse to subject oneself to another's intelligence, but also to another's will.
For example, a rapist can argue that he has done no wrong - and on the grounds of what can we really disagree with him? At most, our disagreement will be merely provisional and circumstantial (ie. by reference to social norms that it is wrong to rape); but unless we have direct knowledge of absolute morality and the source of this absolute morality being on our side as well, we cannot really stand in our disagreement with him.

I am not so sure about that. There are many references on how the spiritual master can do nothing wrong, for example.

Where?

Look at the Guruvastakam, for example.
It is a description of someone who is considered to be beyond doing anything wrong.

That is not my memory of the events. I vividly remember how some American Christians protested in the streets, claiming that GW Bush should not call himself a Christian and that he is misrepresenting Christianity.

Bush claim GOD told him to go to war. From what you say, these protests were about disasociating him from christianity.

Yes, they were.
I'm not sure what your emphasis is here, though? That people generally take for granted that it was indeed God who told GWB to go to war - ie. that people believe that God does such things as telling the presidents of big countries to invade other countries?
(Although such is fully in the scope of the God of the Old Testament.)

When I see a religious person do something that is generally considered wrong, I am bewildered, and try to find a way to explain why it is not wrong if a religious person does something that would otherwise be considered wrong. If I don't find such an explanation, I feel guilty.

Can you specifically link this type of thinking to any scriptoral injunction?

Matt. 7.5: You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Matt. 7.3: Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
John 8.7: Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.
Matt. 7.1-2: Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Then there are well-known instructions not to criticize others and how the fault lies within - e.g. http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/hare-krishna-forum/15965-fault-lies-within.html

Were the people who protested the Holy Inquisition not wrong to do so? Or the people who refused to instantly admit what they were accused of?

I've no idea.
Anyway, what does it matter, now?

I just gave a well-known historic example to make my point.
Similar is happening every day in congregations, albeit usually on a much lesser scale. For example, a member of the congregation accuses someone of something. Is the other person wrong for not instantly admitting to what they are being accused of?
For example, a theist once accused me of something which I thought was not true. I defended myself, to which he replied that I am accusing him of lying - that not only have I committed what he is accusing me of, but that I am now also blaspheming him for accusing him of lying.

Sure. But how do you know that such practices are not in line with what a true servant of God would do?

Did Jesus ever say to his disciples their stupid for not believing what he believes|?

I would not dare to make judgments on what Jesus said or meant.

For me, religion/spirituality has always been about anxiously walking a tightrope between making an effort not to offend the theists and maintaining some semblance of sanity.

Then it maybe time to rethink your definition of religion/spirituality.

Rethink it into what?
What else could there be?

To me, most interactions with theists are such that no matter what I would do, I would be wrong and lose.

What type of people would you be right and win, through interaction?

I don't know. Perhaps there are no such people.

Maybe, but I doubt it.
I don't have time to play footsie, if i'm wrong i'm wrong, but I trust my instinct, and am not too proud to accept if i'm wrong.

Good for you then.
I suppose I am just not humble enough to accept that I might have to spend several million kalpas an hell for offending a theist.

 

[andi_3k]

The Pope doesn't think in soundbites.

I can see a future where young people are so exposed to extreme and degrading forms of sex, that they are made impotent by it.

I see that NOW. Far too many think that what they see on TV - everything from the soaps to Law and Order SVU is "normal" that they can't form real, lasting, loving relationships with anyone. Case in point was the reaction to the Bobby Brown/Whitney Houston fiasco. A good many youngsters thought Houston was wrong to have left Brown. Whether or not the allegations were true, the idea that violence in a sexual relationship ( or any other kind) is "normal" is indeed terrifying.

 

[reteryalizer]

reXteryalizer

Years ago we used to have Catholic neighbors....

Their Son { AGE 15 } had been molested by a priest.

Who HAD in turn gone HIMSELF & molested { Anally raped } two other Little Catholic Baby boys who were
{ around age 6 ) ...

He also molested a 4 yr. Little baby Girl.

His mother (

A Necromancer

& .... Pagan demon possesed, Typical, Catholic woman WHO ( SHE ) Comunicated daily, with dead spirits }... babysit for Her Catholic church FRIENDS..

this woman used to force her Son to pray to dead spirits,~~~-

-~~~SO CALLED SAINTS, that ROME already has {pre judged} as HEAVEN BOUND.. { what a shame }

This boy confessed his evil deeds to US and WE informed { IN PRIVATE } the neighbor who had another little Catholic Girl ( around Age 6 }

We prayed with Him & He informed us that when He prays to These DEAD people at night He feels demons & EVIL Spirits all around his room & He cant Move.

One day when His Mother was gone One of US went over to his Home & Prayed & BLESED his HOME.... RIDDING this evil catholic pagan spirit of hell that had taken over his mind.

THANK God He was freed of that evil & has learned to never EVER EVER comunicate with the dead..

IN THE BIBLE this is a sin & pinished BY DEATH

DEATH ( by stoning )

Catholicisms two main foundational pillars are indeed sodomy & necromancy///...

THIS IS A FACT


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sodomites & CHILD molesters are so packed out & Deeply ROOTED into this Catholic Roman tic pagan CHURCH that The entire filthy vatican is in ONE Headline & NEWS Alert after another …

& The POPE has been asked to apear in court in 2. lawsuitS… for the writing of PAPAL letters to keep Catholic pAGAN rOMAN- TIC.,…………. CHILD molesters / SODOMITES CRIME A SECRET..

SSSHHHH

THIS is nothing new….TO ROME

..sodomy & NECROMANCY have been at the foundation of catholicsim FROM THE begening of its Deception / Conception in the 3 rd Century.

Catholics are THE MOST…. PAGAN people on the planet ……………………… of all time……………………

There is none NO other CULT WHATSOEVER……..{ on the FACE OF THE entire EARTH……. At any place & at any TIME ……. known to mankind

WHOLY & Diligently, its roman tic pagan Propagators, ~~~~~~ Wait around WATCHING for EXCREMENTS TO OOZE out from the orifices of their pagan idols they serve.

They dress up these vain idols of the PEOPLE they pray to.

requesting saving Graces .. & Spiritual HELP …. AS if
they were PRAYING to God HIMSELF

 

[pjdude1219]

Years ago we used to have Catholic neighbors....

Their Son { AGE 15 } had been molested by a priest.

Who HAD in turn gone HIMSELF & molested { Anally raped } two other Little Catholic Baby boys who were
{ around age 6 ) ...

He also molested a 4 yr. Little baby Girl.

His mother (

A Necromancer

& .... Pagan demon possesed, Typical, Catholic woman WHO ( SHE ) Comunicated daily, with dead spirits }... babysit for Her Catholic church FRIENDS..

this woman used to force her Son to pray to dead spirits,~~~-

-~~~SO CALLED SAINTS, that ROME already has {pre judged} as HEAVEN BOUND.. { what a shame }

This boy confessed his evil deeds to US and WE informed { IN PRIVATE } the neighbor who had another little Catholic Girl ( around Age 6 }

We prayed with Him & He informed us that when He prays to These DEAD people at night He feels demons & EVIL Spirits all around his room & He cant Move.

One day when His Mother was gone One of US went over to his Home & Prayed & BLESED his HOME.... RIDDING this evil catholic pagan spirit of hell that had taken over his mind.

THANK God He was freed of that evil & has learned to never EVER EVER comunicate with the dead..

IN THE BIBLE this is a sin & pinished BY DEATH

DEATH ( by stoning )

Catholicisms two main foundational pillars are indeed sodomy & necromancy///...

THIS IS A FACT


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sodomites & CHILD molesters are so packed out & Deeply ROOTED into this Catholic Roman tic pagan CHURCH that The entire filthy vatican is in ONE Headline & NEWS Alert after another …

& The POPE has been asked to apear in court in 2. lawsuitS… for the writing of PAPAL letters to keep Catholic pAGAN rOMAN- TIC.,…………. CHILD molesters / SODOMITES CRIME A SECRET..

SSSHHHH

THIS is nothing new….TO ROME

..sodomy & NECROMANCY have been at the foundation of catholicsim FROM THE begening of its Deception / Conception in the 3 rd Century.

Catholics are THE MOST…. PAGAN people on the planet ……………………… of all time……………………

There is none NO other CULT WHATSOEVER……..{ on the FACE OF THE entire EARTH……. At any place & at any TIME ……. known to mankind

WHOLY & Diligently, its roman tic pagan Propagators, ~~~~~~ Wait around WATCHING for EXCREMENTS TO OOZE out from the orifices of their pagan idols they serve.

They dress up these vain idols of the PEOPLE they pray to.

requesting saving Graces .. & Spiritual HELP …. AS if
they were PRAYING to God HIMSELF

first off no one is an actual necromancer so calling catholics that is just stupid. though I suppose loosely you could view ME's( medical examiners) as necromancers.


secondly considering you have to have died before you can even become a saint saying catholics prejudge saints as going to heaven is false. but he given your already established ranting and raving and your tenious grasp of facts when they get in the way of your attacking catholicism its to be expected.

 

[NMSquirrel]

requesting saving Graces .. & Spiritual HELP …. AS if
they were PRAYING to God HIMSELF[/B]

please tone down the font!

 

[Captain Kremmen]

@retryaliser
I would guess you are a hair's breadth from a banning.
Try dropping the large red font.
Try to use correct grammar and punctuation.
You sound like a lunatic the way you are writing things.

Doesn't this look a whole lot better than the way you wrote it?



His mother, a necromancer and a Pagan demon, was possesed.
A typical Catholic woman, she communicated daily with dead spirits.
She used to babysit for her Catholic friends.


Isn't that nicer than letters and words sprawling all over the place?

 

[reteryalizer]

reXteryalizer

YOu people wake up////please /.......POPE PIUS IS NOT HERE to save America Like he saved the jews



regular letters are not much better...
reX prefers the facts to be noticed & read by everyone possible..

people who are lovers of lieS & WHOM enjoy making up lies,

like to type little tiny teeny letters

& hope OTHERS ( POPPULAR seeming social lights or the auctal mods... themselves... ) pick up their littLe quacky fabled fantasy comments That really say nothing factual ( JUST OPINION )

Then every body COOL regurgitates it & begins commenting on your little teeny topic...

Then you feel important..

reX does not have OPINIONS....thaT He wants to fEEEL important...about...

reX lives in the reALM of FACTS........BORDERLINE BANNING...on the edge...Like the mentioning of more than 20 children, were burned alive

HELD HOSTAGE by the WACO TeXas David Keresh...

THE phoTos could be posted here...BUT the MODERATOR dont like solid proof of anything that proves anything..

THEY like perpetual confusion Babling ON & ON...with no foundation based in fact..

But U can Go online & view their DEAD BURNED charred bodies ...WHAT about these little innocent children,.. >??

Everyone seems so upset about the little 9 yr old girl shot in Arizona..but they dont care about the child...THEY want to use the child to force politics to put the guns in to their hands ..

They never mourned a tear for the 20 little babies burned alive at waco...

These democrats & Liberal animals are so filthy & sick..

They should be tried in a court of laW...CONVICTED & be given the dealth penality FOR MURDER of 20 little children HELD HOSTAGE....by Janet Reno CLINTON & the DENOMIC democratic cult...



The kids were hostage ) HELPLESS to save themselves or even leave ,,

& the USA Government burned them alive......Bec they wanted to prove Polygamy is so bad & evil.....

This fact......people dont like being reminded of facts..

so sTick to your Little teeny, tiny joke lines & let reX stick to the facts...


If they want to BANN reX.....its ok....the truth remains TRUTH


ban the facts if you will BUT U WILL NEVER hide from God,




OBAMA & HIS DEMON POSSESED democratic PARTY keep on pushing for VIOLENCE...
Here ARE Obamas own WORDS calling for MURDER & VIOLENCE & HATE & anger to be turned to PHYSICAL LITERAL VIOLENCE

Hitler did the same eXact same...

“Bring it on”- Obama SCREAMS ... Regime to The American People.

“Get ready for hand-to-hand combat with your fellow Americans” – Obama DECLARED to his ignorant mob..

“I want all Americans to get in each others faces! – Obama demands of his fellow bums & idiots.

“You bring a knife to a fight pal, we’ll bring a gun” – Obama Cant wait to get everybody involved in some kind OF CONFRONTATION of some sort....



"Republicans are our enemies"--Obama has enemies...& he wants the local mob....& crack head followers To get ready for take over...

** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”

ANGER IS OBAMAS medecine for america....The first Crack head president...

Bill Clinton was the first Black president...

** Obama to His LITTLE crack head Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”


** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“

OBAMA was won by the CATHOLIC VOTE....the pope I am sure loves America with this crack head in the white house....THE WHOLE COUNTRY LOOKS LIKE A comic movie from hell ......

The pope probably feels like he is on CRACK watching this president just take a breath,,..

He manages to say absolutly nothing ABOUT nothing.

** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

HE IS EXPECTING people to kill for him....THIS IS WHAT HE LIVES FOR


THESE ARE OBAMAS OWN WORDS..

** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”



“God Damn America” – Barrack Hussein Obama’s Spiritual Advisor


YOu people wake up////please /.......POPE PIUS IS NOT HERE to save America Like he saved the jews

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Likes to type little tiny teeny letters.
He He He!
That's so true.
You've got me there Rex.
Reading that made me laugh.

Look. Take a few minutes off putting the world to rights.
What do you think my avatar is?
Yours is a lion drinking water.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

OK
I'll give you a clue.
It's not a demon.

 

[NMSquirrel]

regular letters are not much better...
reX prefers the facts to be noticed & read by everyone possible..

your posts hurt my eyes..i won't read them..

 

[Gremmie]

your posts hurt my eyes..i won't read them..

The size of the type really doesn't bother me...It's all the color changes..

It's like reading crap written with crayons...I have the guy on ignore.

Not like he has anything of value to say anyway, just a troll.:shrug:

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Good idea.
I'll put him on ignore as well.
It looks like something written during recreation hour at the funny farm.

Ah, that's better.
Would people please stop quoting him.
I can still see that.

 

[birch]

There was a time -before the eighteenth century - when children were not considered distinct from adults. At some point during the Industrial revolution, childhood was given some sort of hallowed status which brought in the concept of consent, minors, age of reason, age for voting, age for marriage [all of which are highly localised and based on local attitudes towards what constitutes the divide between childhood and adulthood]

Now we live in an age where children are a separate species and gender.But its a fairly recent phenomenon and not entirely embraced everywhere [social workers in India, for example, are apt to come up against violent opposition when they try to prevent child marriages].

But the trend now is towards childlike prepubescent images of women and waxed slender representations of men.

yes and that is just horrendous beyond imagining. i can't imagine what even more horrors they endured at such a young and vulnerable age. they are definitely not the same as adults nor do they have the power, ability or knowledge of adults. the thought a child or young person was bought and sold or enslaved is hellish beyond hellish and evil. goddamn, that's fucked up evil. what's even more enlightening is that even in the animal kingdom, there are very few to none species that enslave another or eachother as heinously as humans have and do. they may kill another but the level of perversion, suffering and damage that humans inflict is beyond all that.

there are some people with that type of mentality even today but they tend to be very reptilish and predatorial.

 

[reteryalizer]

reXteryalizer

You people are posting too many LIES to even Keep up with yourselves

Deleting rexeS proven facts will not lessen the eXXXposure that your lies have received.

reX is eXXposing every dot ever letter U post

as a lie,,,,,

 

[Captain Kremmen]

While I have put Breathalizer on ignore,
I can still see that he is posting things.
Has this section got an administrator at all, or can people post any old shite?

I can't see it, so. possibly he is writing sense instead of cut-and-paste lunacy in big red crayon.