Polygamy

[getts]

Ok, on one hand you admit that there is not a real strong case against polygyny, then on the other hand you tell me I am blinded by my sin....

Face it, you are personally uncomfortable with the idea, so therefore it must be sinful...that is not always the case. My wife is personally uncomfortable with singing in the Chior.....that does not mean she thinks it is sinful......

 

[David2]

to mystech no one asked you to be a smart ass i messed up while typing so i fixed it the best i could now i am not one of those jesus frieks who believes that you should wait till after maridge to have sex i honostly dont care now I myself do care about same sex marridges that is my opinion and i do believe that this is what this site is all about voicing your opinion

 

[SpyMoose]

Do you feel better that you call them a concubine? That's like saying you tell "white" lies so you can sleep at night. Concubinage got the men of the old testament into trouble. If that is they way you wish to live, I am no one to say otherwise.

Yes, surely swingers will bring down a pluage of locusts upon us! Or some sort of evil voodoo of gods devising. Jayleew is a prude raised by prudes, hence the earth is going to open up and swallow those awful swingers who he dosn't like to think about.

 

[jayleew]

Ok, on one hand you admit that there is not a real strong case against polygyny, then on the other hand you tell me I am blinded by my sin....

Face it, you are personally uncomfortable with the idea, so therefore it must be sinful...that is not always the case. My wife is personally uncomfortable with singing in the Chior.....that does not mean she thinks it is sinful......

There is not a strong case against polygamy.

The only thing I am uncomfortable with is the idea that you say you are a Christian, but do not follow the clear instructions concerning adultery; therefore, giving all Christians a bad name and that the Bible doesn't matter.

If you said, "I am not a Chrisian and I am a swinger." I would not say a word to you concerning what you should and should not do. There are homosexuals here, but do I judge them by the scriptures which they do not accept? That would be rediculous.

So, unless you have two wives, you are committing adultery in the eyes of your God. I am not here to judge anyone who does not want to live according to the scriptures. I am relaying the message of scripture that you say you follow. I am here to tell you that you are not a Christian if you do not follow Christ's teachings and do not repent, keep sinning, and enjoy it as well. By calling yourself a Christian, you are putting a bar up that you have to jump over, or you will harm the perceptions of non-Christians towards the children of God. I am not saying you will go to hell, because I can't say that. I am saying to you, as a Christian, that God will judge you by the Word that you say you follow, so you better have your lamp well-oiled. If you want to follow Christ, give up all your youthful lusts and take up the cross of self-sacrifice, and follow Christ who suffered at the cross unto death. Walk in soberness of mind, not the drunkenness of the flesh.

 

[SpyMoose]

youthful lusts.

Just like nudists, most folks seem to think of young attractive people when they think of swingers or open relationships. It has not been my experience that this is the case. Folks in their mid thirties (sort of youthful I guess) on into their sixties seems to be the norm.

 

[jayleew]

Yes, surely swingers will bring down a pluage of locusts upon us! Or some sort of evil voodoo of gods devising. Jayleew is a prude raised by prudes, hence the earth is going to open up and swallow those awful swingers who he dosn't like to think about.

Your sarcasm is unwarranted since I do not even think that way. SpyMoose, what would you think of a Christian who committed murder and liked to murder? I'm sure you know enough of scripture to know that the Bible also says "Thou shalt not commit adultery." So, what would you think of a Christian who committed adultery, thereby breaking the laws that they say they follow?
Does that entice you to become a Christian?
What if all you ever knew of Christians was that they loved their enemies as their friends unto death? Would you might want to find out why and maybe become as they are? Maybe at least you would respect them more?
Now you will understand the grief I give Getts. It is people like him who are destroying Christianity more than science.

 

[SpyMoose]

Does that entice you to become a Christian?
What if all you ever knew of Christians was that they loved their enemies as their friends unto death? Would you might want to find out why and maybe become as they are? Maybe at least you would respect them more?
Now you will understand the grief I give Getts. It is people like him who are destroying Christianity more than science.

I am not ignorant of Christianity. In fact I was lucky enough to be indoctrinated early on in life to <b>the</b> one true faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I know it was the one true faith because they said so. Is there any other faith that can make that claim? I think not! And if they do then they are clearly sinners because after all is it not written that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are the one true faith? You see, it all adds up nicely. Christian values are on the whole archaic, repressive, malfeasant, and on a rare occasion such as the loving thy enemies, only paid lip service to.

 

[Mystech]

Christian values are on the whole archaic, repressive, malfeasant, and on a rare occasion such as the loving thy enemies, only paid lip service to.

Tell me about it, even these self described "True Christians" who realize that there's just a lot of ugly smearyness in this country when it comes to the idea of who and what a Christian is supposed to be don't bother to stone their own children, or invite their neighbors over to help 'em out with it.

As a homosexual the idea of harming children is second nature to me (obviously) so I feel a strong dislike of any Christian who has abandoned the practice of stoning unruly children, even making it a community event! Lord knows that I'd rather just eat them in our secret rituals (as is the case of all gay men who secretly worship an angry phallic demon) but if we could have mass public stoning of bad kids I think that my quality of life would be greatly improved.

 

[Asguard]

i really dont get why pollyogamy when out, look at our relitives in the animal world. 1 or 2 males to large groups of females are more normal than 1 to 1 relationships because they make more sence. Male spreads gens further, females have large group to protect there offspring so everyone benifits

 

[getts]

OK, I will try it again.....you yourself has admitted that concubinage = polygamy. I have said swinging = concubinage since we have a select few that we swing with. So, polygamy <> adultery, concubinage = swinging, concubinage = polygamy, swinging <> adultery!! It is not a hard concept to get if you look at it clearly.

 

[Arditezza]

Here's the few problems I see;

Increased risk of the spread of disease.

Increased number of illegitimate children. Leading to the possibility that men could propagate children that would eventually mate themselves and possibly cause children with genetic defects. Inbreeding is a distinct possibility.

Increased risk of depression and anxiety. The pressure to perform well, and the pressure to be better could lead to issues both on the male and female side.

I think they are valid concerns, and while you may be the exception to the rule, all the swingers I have ever met have been more prone to STD's, and viruses. They've been wildly moody and mostly insecure.

 

[getts]

That is interesting. I wonder exactly how many swingers you have met? Outside of the folks we swing with, and of course you fine people who do not actually know me here on the internet, there are maybe 3 people that even know that we are swingers. There is a club in Atlanta that we go to to meet like minded folks. While we are very particular with the small group that we actually interact with, there are literally hundreds of folks that we have met up there and become 'normal' friends with.

Out of the folks we have met, maybe on or two have seemed like they fit into your very generalized description above. Firstly, most 'modern swingers' are fully aware of the risk of STD's and take neccesarry precautions....this is not the 70's swinger crowd. Most of the folks that we know are extremely well off financially, and are certainly not depressed, anxious, or full of performance issues.

There is no depression or anxiety...everything is out in the open. 'Traditional' marriages are more likely to breed depression and anxiety. When I see a beautiful woman in the mall, I look at my wife and say "Wow....I'd do her in a hear beat!". I don't feel the need to avert my eyes and pretend I did not see her. Likewise, my wife does not have to wonder what I am doing behind her back.....there is NO jealousy in our marriage, nor the marriages of 99% of the folks we know from 'up there'.

I do not see where inbreeding would be more of a problem....What about with the current divorce rate?? about 1 out of every 2 marriages end in divorce. Then there are usually more than one marriage after that. That is where inbreeding could really be an issue. Atleast with polygamy, you know who all of your brothers and sisters are!

Again, I must ask....how many people have approached you and said "Hi, I'm Jim and thiis my wife Jane...We're swingers!! Nice to meet you...." I doubt you have had the wxperience with swingers that you would like to portray. I believe it is more likely that you added that statement to try to lend credence to your statements. It would be much better to just state that you think it might be that way...Again, I can't think of but a coupl of people that we've met that are even slightly moody, much less insecure.

 

[Arditezza]

Being a very open minded person, I have a wide array of friends. I should have clarified that the "swingers" crowd is less likely to have these things happen to them, but the general acceptance of multiple partners and "open" marriages does. It's a strawman to state that because the divorce rate is high, that there would be an increased amount of possible inbreeding. Even in divorce, children know their parents. Whereas one-night stands, quickies and random sex may not provide you with that information. Now again, I am not talking about "swingers" I am speaking in general of people who engage in random sexual encounters with multiple mates. Or general "open marriage" which does not have a club to go to or be a part of. I have lots of friends in open marriages, and I can tell you that the rate of abortion and infection is higher in those women than it is in the single and "traditional" married women I know.

 

[getts]

I don't believe it is any more of a strawman to state that about divorce than it is swinging....

 

[jayleew]

I am not ignorant of Christianity. In fact I was lucky enough to be indoctrinated early on in life to <b>the</b> one true faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I know it was the one true faith because they said so. Is there any other faith that can make that claim? I think not! And if they do then they are clearly sinners because after all is it not written that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are the one true faith? You see, it all adds up nicely. Christian values are on the whole archaic, repressive, malfeasant, and on a rare occasion such as the loving thy enemies, only paid lip service to.

As far as the one true faith, Christianity is the most logical choice due to the physical evidence, the ancient foundation, the prophetic accuracy, the consistency over milleniums, and much more evidence. Many religions were created in the last few centuries which harldy gives it weight. By process of elimination using evidence and logic, one cannot deny that Christianity is the least irrational of all religions. But this is not the topic for this thread, it would be a good one to start!

Yes, I am aware that more Christians claim to be Christian and do not follow Christ, which gives anyone who truly follows the faith a really bad impression. God has made me with a skeptical mind, so I am skeptical of any man or thing of man. Nothing influences me more than the Bible. That is the only thing that I have come to trust to lead me to my creator. That is the difference between me (people like me) and most other Christians, we do not make anything up to justify our beliefs or actions. We believe in God, not what the preacher has to tell us. It appears I am doing a poor job of changing the map of the world.

 

[jayleew]

Tell me about it, even these self described "True Christians" who realize that there's just a lot of ugly smearyness in this country when it comes to the idea of who and what a Christian is supposed to be don't bother to stone their own children, or invite their neighbors over to help 'em out with it.

As a homosexual the idea of harming children is second nature to me (obviously) so I feel a strong dislike of any Christian who has abandoned the practice of stoning unruly children, even making it a community event! Lord knows that I'd rather just eat them in our secret rituals (as is the case of all gay men who secretly worship an angry phallic demon) but if we could have mass public stoning of bad kids I think that my quality of life would be greatly improved.

You aren't serious are you? You must be sarcastic right now...? The apple never falls far from the tree without a gust of wind.

 

[Mystech]

I have lots of friends in open marriages, and I can tell you that the rate of abortion and infection is higher in those women than it is in the single and "traditional" married women I know.

Your friends tell you about their wife's abortions and venerial diseases? Wild.

 

[jayleew]

i really dont get why pollyogamy when out, look at our relitives in the animal world. 1 or 2 males to large groups of females are more normal than 1 to 1 relationships because they make more sence. Male spreads gens further, females have large group to protect there offspring so everyone benifits

I do not deny to you that I want to have a polygamous realtionship either. I would like to do other things as well like masterbate and look at pornography, as I did when I was a "Christian". I searched and searched for scripture or anything that a wise man had to say to justify me masterbating. God told me three things in his Word that said it was sin. I could not escape myself. And I asked God to save me from myself (knowing full well that I am willing to relinquish my free will in order to not sin), so he cast sickness on me. It is a mild form of affliction that affects my urinal tract that the doctors cannot explain. I knew he would too (there was no other way, as I had prayed for him over and over to help me from dishonoring my members). Even with the knowledge that it was sin, I could not resist myself. I rejoice in the pains as a reminder of his saving grace who saved me from myself. It is human nature to want many wives and perform orgasms. After all, it is a natural feel-good chemical in the brain, no better than a drug. I was addicted and I only beat it by the hand of God.

It is our instincts to lust, especially males. Males want to enjoy the relationship and sexual realtionship with more than one female. It is our nature to be a swinger. We get complacent in our monogamy! That is why Jacob, so long ago, took more than one wife. He needed it, with all that was in him, he could not deny himself that which was in his nature.

But, I deny myself because scriptures says we are to deny ourselves of our youthful lusts. Spymoose, the word "youthful" has nothing to do with age. Sorry to confuse you last time.

 

[Mystech]

As far as the one true faith, Christianity is the most logical choice due to the physical evidence, the ancient foundation, the prophetic accuracy, the consistency over milleniums, and much more evidence.

You've got to be kidding, what are you even talking about here? Most of this stuff is working against Christianity and certainly disproves any literal interpretation of the Bible in many cases.

The Hindus have idols that drink milk, buddy, let's see your blinged out crusifix do that.

Many religions were created in the last few centuries which harldy gives it weight.

Well I suppose this could be considered true to some certain degree, in that there are a lot of religions in the world and some of them happen to be younger than Christianity. Then again, Wicca and Scientology don't exactly carry a lot of weight in the world, and other than those Christianity is still sort of the new kid on the block. If age alone were a good qualification for validity of a religion then you should probably convert to Judaism, or seek some of that good ol' Eastern religion. Personally I'd go and spend some time with the Aboriginals of Australia, chances ar they've got one of the older religions in the world.

Then again some might see extreme age as a failing of Christianity. After all, looking to the mistranslated writings of an ancient nomadic desert wandering tribe who couldn't possibly comprehend the world we live in today, for all the answers both metaphysical and practical in the world seems kind of silly when you really sit and think about it.

By process of elimination using evidence and logic, one cannot deny that Christianity is the least irrational of all religions. But this is not the topic for this thread, it would be a good one to start!

Hahaha, go ahead, I encourage you to start such a thread. I'd very much like to see this evidence and proof of Christianity as the one true religion. What ever happened to faith? You start going around and saying that empirical evidence and demonstrate some spiritual or theological truth, and you're setting yourself up for some heartache.

 

[jayleew]

OK, I will try it again.....you yourself has admitted that concubinage = polygamy. I have said swinging = concubinage since we have a select few that we swing with. So, polygamy <> adultery, concubinage = swinging, concubinage = polygamy, swinging <> adultery!! It is not a hard concept to get if you look at it clearly.

Concubinage is similar to polygamy. Swinging does not equal polygamy or concubinage because it is neither legal, nor are you married!

Concubinage was legal by law and is taking a wife to serve in wifely duties when the wife could not.
Polygamy is having multiple WIVES, with each relationship a seperate marriage contract before God.

You must be married to more than one person to have a polygamous relationship, or else it is called adultery by the definition of adultery.

By definition, since you are not married to more than one woman, you are an adulterer. Look it up in the dictionary. I'm sorry to break the news, and I don't care if you are. What you do in your own affair is your own affair.

I care only if you claim to be my "brother" and do not act according to scriptures, thereby, dishonoring my faith in the face of non-believers. I willl not dispute you if you get married twice and are a Christian. I cannot find anywhere in the scriptures that say Polygamy is wrong. But, you do not live with two wives as some Mormons do. Research how they live. They live the life of true Polygamy and claim to follow "Christ", but they call themselves Mormons, not Christians anyway. I caution you before becoming a Mormon however, to read the entire book of Mormon and make sure you understand its teachings. There are some pretty far-fetched things in there concerning God, including which star-system he is from.