Depends on the American.Well I really wouldn't take my morals from Americans.
They have an appalling lack of respect for other people
Polygamy Sect in Texas
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
Bells
Staff member
your contridicting yourself there bells
The first quote was your own so either a) the majority of poligimists ". The greater majority of them do not groom their children to follow in their steps, instead allowing their children to make their own choices. Nor do they force their children into following the same practices"
or b) the majority of poligimists DO groom there children to be there own sexual partners
Which is it bells?
I suggest you re-read what I said. I'll give you a hint..
The greater majority of polygamists do not groom their children or force them into any particular way of life.
The greater majority of sects where polygamy is the norm, one can usually find old men marrying underage girls.
Not everyone who practices polygamy belongs to a religious sect Asguard. That is the difference.
I almost want to puke thinking of what these poor girls have gone through. Being brainwashed their entire life into this sick shit. It's appalling.
It's really a testament to how a few crack-pot versus in a religious book can screw up things 100s of years later. Believe it or not, as I understand it, Mormon women were some of the strongest supporters for equal rights for women. BUT because the founder of Mormonism was pro-polygamy it's always possible from someone to go into the Book of Mormon and justify their desire for polygamy. AND of course many of these social deviants are predators once they get the sheep in a line they go right for the most vulnerable - the children. I think a lot of these cult founders are sexual deviants and also pedophiles. Having access to children young enough and they can make what is sick seem normal.
That's the point,
Michael
It's really a testament to how a few crack-pot versus in a religious book can screw up things 100s of years later. Believe it or not, as I understand it, Mormon women were some of the strongest supporters for equal rights for women. BUT because the founder of Mormonism was pro-polygamy it's always possible from someone to go into the Book of Mormon and justify their desire for polygamy. AND of course many of these social deviants are predators once they get the sheep in a line they go right for the most vulnerable - the children. I think a lot of these cult founders are sexual deviants and also pedophiles. Having access to children young enough and they can make what is sick seem normal.
That's the point,
Michael
My grandmother was married very early before puberty, she married a much older man and had 13 children, he died early (20 years before her) and she lived to a ripe old age.
However, she never suffered, as you call it, she had a good life and died happy and content.
You seem to get bogged down in transposing your feelings about certain customs on other people as if all people had the same kind of expectations and feelings about all things.
I remember when I worked in Saudi Arabia, the young girls wanted the richest man, no matter how old, once he died and they were wealthy, they could marry someone else. To them marriage was about living well and older women (in their 50s) married young men (in their late teens or 20s) and no one considered it strange. Didn't Osamas son marry an older woman recently? You should stop imposing your ideas on other people and passing moral judgements on their beliefs. It makes you sound like a priggish Catholic
edit: Yup.
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/07/12/10138687.html
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I knew it. I just knew it. All your spouting off was just a charade.
You know exactly what I'm talking about, you perv.Huh?
He's not that far off. The greater majority of sects where polygamy is the norm does find old men marrying underage girls.
I was born into a strictly Catholic family and am an atheist with 2 unbaptised children. Neither of my parents have tried to kill me or kidnap me for 're-education'.
So, how many do what you did. The reason we have so many religious crackpots is that religious nonsense has been inculcated into kids from an early age. Most never seem to grow out of it and think for themselves.
I have been where where you have been, but I spent most of my time in Ireland as a minority of one. Most religious people follow the religion they were brought up in.
Hey I come from a country with hundreds of beliefs. You learn to accept that people are allowed to be as whacky as they like. It makes them less likely to seclude themselves and exposes the people more to other ways of life.
Wanna smear ash on yourself and live naked? Fine
Wanna whip yourself and wear bells on your feet and dance? Fine
Wanna make giant statues and throw them in the sea every year? No problem
Its all kosher
Bells
Staff member
You did for one.
I agree.
But I will say this. Many do not want to grow out of it and think for themselves, because they are comfortable with where they happen to be. Others have no choice, as in the case of this sect. These children and primarily girls, are brought up to believe that the only option they have is to become a wife at a very early age. They are denied a proper education and groomed from birth to becoming the perfect wife. Those who dare rebel are labeled as being sinners and disbelievers, threatened with expulsion from all they know in life. Some are threatened with death.
Most do.
I understand your point (I think) but that is India or KSA.
If I lived in either country I would respect their customs or not live there. I wouldn't go there telling them what they can and can not do and I would not go there thinking I could impose my culture onto them.
This is Texas America and it's not a cultural custom but a brainwashing cult. There is no two ways about it. These children have been brainwashed. It was a little girl who called the FBI because she knew what was happening to her was wrong. She knew it was sick. That's the point.
We've progressed socially to the point where a woman can do something other than having 10 kids IF she chooses to do so. Yeah, she can marry a rich old man if she wants to as well. OR she can become a lawyer or police officer or whatever.
These girls are religiously indoctrinated so that the ONLY option for them is marrying an 50 year old pedophile and to make sure they do they are repeatedly told GOD will punish everyone if they don't.
Surely you can see the injustice in this?
If I lived in either country I would respect their customs or not live there. I wouldn't go there telling them what they can and can not do and I would not go there thinking I could impose my culture onto them.
This is Texas America and it's not a cultural custom but a brainwashing cult. There is no two ways about it. These children have been brainwashed. It was a little girl who called the FBI because she knew what was happening to her was wrong. She knew it was sick. That's the point.
We've progressed socially to the point where a woman can do something other than having 10 kids IF she chooses to do so. Yeah, she can marry a rich old man if she wants to as well. OR she can become a lawyer or police officer or whatever.
These girls are religiously indoctrinated so that the ONLY option for them is marrying an 50 year old pedophile and to make sure they do they are repeatedly told GOD will punish everyone if they don't.
Surely you can see the injustice in this?
I just can not fathom how you can not totally and 100% agree that this is a case of injustice??!?!
It was one of the children herself who notified the police.
We'll see is pedophile pornography is hauled from their PCs. I will not be surprised.
I suppose the larger question here is of social morals. They can not be "quantified" by some sort of scientific method but instead socially agreed as to what is right and what is wrong. And they change.
At this time and in this place using religion to indoctrinate children to marry 50 year old polygamists is morally unacceptable and maybe even illegal.
It was one of the children herself who notified the police.
We'll see is pedophile pornography is hauled from their PCs. I will not be surprised.
I suppose the larger question here is of social morals. They can not be "quantified" by some sort of scientific method but instead socially agreed as to what is right and what is wrong. And they change.
At this time and in this place using religion to indoctrinate children to marry 50 year old polygamists is morally unacceptable and maybe even illegal.
again those are your morals these girls don't (for the most part) even know they are unhappy until someone tells them, that they are suppose to be. Not that i agree with the cult "rules" but then I don't agree with many "religious" rules. Who the hell am i to say what is right and wrong, and you ask anyone of them girls i would bet they would answer just like many of the other "religious" people we have all met.
"i am a good God FEARING (whatever the denomination is)"
"i am a good God FEARING (whatever the denomination is)"
this seems more of a social issue that a religious one, and as with all social positions, they are all relative.
IOW probably the reason it makes you think they are brainwashed is because you are also brainwashed with something else, as is everyone's brain of course (lol - especially a 15 year old girl's brain - I mean they can't all be wearing the same clothes and listening to the same music in the same shopping mall every summer by coincidence can they?)
While it's always tricky, I think to argue that one's social foundation is superior (ie " yours is disgusting") requires that one show how one party bears an effect that is damaging and how another effect is benefiting. The reason I say it is tricky is because social values are, by their nature, subjective.
For instance what would you say to a girl who was glad she married a man at 15 (has no issues with polygamy or age) saying she was saved from wasting her life sitting idle in shopping malls trying to find someone responsible and winding up a single mother? (As I have heard such girls explain their situation)
IOW how do you bring to bear your values (shopping malls, lipstick and about a square foot of clothing to cover yourself) on someone else's? Obviously your values indicate that getting pregnant at 15 is socially dangerous (its not like they have to give such girls a placenta transplant or something so they can fall pregnant, so its not biologically dangerous). But what if someone else has different social values (as well as a community to house those foundations) that is not so dangerous (BTW I think it is impossible to describe any pregnancy as socially "safe" regardless of age - lol )?
It would be interesting to see which communities of the world house the world record for youngest pregnancies and whether they are mormon or not ....
Sure, you could argue that polygamy, young pregnancy, vast differences in age, etc is not something for you, but when you try to bring that on to someone else (particularly a community with different social values), how do you do it without "brainwashing"?
I am a product of my society. I hold certain truths to be self-evident. Namely that all people are created equal and that they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights - among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
This is the foundation of our social contract with one another. Like I said, in another place or another time perhaps it would be acceptable to brainwash female children that they are to subserve the male that the cult/religious leader has chosen for them and that this man will probably be their grandfather's polygamist buddy. Certainly vestal virgins had an odd life.
But this is Texas and the here and now and it is not acceptable. It may even be illegal.
Think on this. Long ago people were raised to think that their bloody sacrifice would appease the Gods and bring bountiful harvest and abundance. They willingly and happily hoped into the volcano knowing that this was a great service they did for their people. Guess what - you could easily brainwash someone today to do just the exact same thing. Well, it's wrong today in America - to do that is called child abuse. THAT'S what is happening in this cult.
As for Mohammad, he ain't got nothing on the Chinese Emperor and his 10,000 concubines. Pffff 30 or so... hahahahahaaaa come on! The old testament God also favored man with 4 wives. I suppose Xian women were at least lucky enough that the NT was more or less based on Roman monogamy ethos and eventually AFTER a couple thousand years women were able to get some of the rights their Roman grandmothers had 2000 year prior. Also, I think perhaps gaelic women had a decent number of rights all along?
This is the foundation of our social contract with one another. Like I said, in another place or another time perhaps it would be acceptable to brainwash female children that they are to subserve the male that the cult/religious leader has chosen for them and that this man will probably be their grandfather's polygamist buddy. Certainly vestal virgins had an odd life.
But this is Texas and the here and now and it is not acceptable. It may even be illegal.
Think on this. Long ago people were raised to think that their bloody sacrifice would appease the Gods and bring bountiful harvest and abundance. They willingly and happily hoped into the volcano knowing that this was a great service they did for their people. Guess what - you could easily brainwash someone today to do just the exact same thing. Well, it's wrong today in America - to do that is called child abuse. THAT'S what is happening in this cult.
As for Mohammad, he ain't got nothing on the Chinese Emperor and his 10,000 concubines. Pffff 30 or so... hahahahahaaaa come on! The old testament God also favored man with 4 wives. I suppose Xian women were at least lucky enough that the NT was more or less based on Roman monogamy ethos and eventually AFTER a couple thousand years women were able to get some of the rights their Roman grandmothers had 2000 year prior. Also, I think perhaps gaelic women had a decent number of rights all along?