Polygamy Sect in Texas

M

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
Texan polygamists
Texas authorities have continued raids on a ranch belonging to a breakaway Mormon sect, removing a total of almost 200 women and children since Thursday. Detectives are looking for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man. She is thought to have had a child when she was 15. The 10,000-strong sect, which dominates the towns of Colorado City in Arizona, and Hildale, Utah, split from the mainstream Mormon church more than a century ago. Members believe a man must marry at least three wives in order to ascend to heaven. Women are meanwhile taught that their path to heaven depends on being subservient to their husband.

Is there anyone here who DOESN'T think a 50+ year old man marrying a child that was maybe 15 years of age and more likely under 14 is SICK?!? It seems anyone with a half-pea's amount of sense would instantly realize this is f*cking disgusting. It's also sad how these women are so brainwashed by their religion they think it's OK for their husbands to be polygamists and its OK for 50 year old men to marry their children. That they must be second class citizens to their husbands and that their job in life is to please their husbands and pump out children.

It's just sick.

I fail to understand why we can not have at least a little mandatory religious re-education in the USA? You know, enough to at least teach children polygamy is wrong and 50 year old men marrying children is sick. I'm sure everyone here would agree to at least that much.

Michael
 
Michael i find it baffling that he wasnt charged with RAPE and sexual assult of a child and described THAT way rather than being described as a "convicted polygimst". Who gives a toss how many concenting adults hes sleeping with if they all agree to be "one big happy family"

Its the child abuse I find discusting
 
The problem is they use religion to brainwash their children into believing that polygamy is morally acceptable and that they should be good little subservient wives - dedicating their existence to serving their man.

NOW, it they were a couple of strangers that happen to like 3-ways then go for it. But, I promise, this is much more insidious than that.

I would find it equally repulsive if the girls were 16 and of a legal age - it's the religious indoctrination and brainwashing that's morally repugnant.
 
Michael since when is it NOT acceptable?
We were bilogically DESIGNED to live in a herum

Even the fact that there is a higher birth rate for females compared to males points to that. When you get to the point of sexual maturity there are alot more females than males because males tend to die off younger (we are more suceptable to genetic problems as well) so not every female will find ONE male to pair with.

BECAUSE we were ment to have 3 of 4 women to a man all raising the children and cohabiting together

there is nothing imoral about poligamy as long as its concentual, MONOGAMY has been brainwashed into us from a young age. Its only the child abuse that matters
 
Their are almost equal numbers of males to females.

Australia 2007
1.050 male(s)/female (At brith)
1.049 male(s)/female (under 15 years)
1.017 male(s)/female (15-64 years)

I agree that 2, 3, 5, 10, 1000 consenting adults can do whatever the hell they want to sexually. BUT this is a RELIGIOUS CULT that brainwashes female children to accept polygamy and to accept sex with 50 year old child abusers.

The child abuse is sick - I see two forms:
1) Sexually
2) Mentally

Even if those girls were 18 they'd still have had 18 years of mental child abuse. If they then entered into a sexual relationship with a 50 year old man it would be because of that abuse.

Think of it like this.
Suppose a child was taught by her father that when she got sexually mature they would have sex. Suppose he had a vasectomy so she would not get pregnant. She was told this her whole life and ALSO told that if she didn't do it GOD would punish her in Hell and punish everyone she loved. Guess what - she turns 18 and has "consensual" sex with her father. THAT is abuse. That's what I see when I see these sick religious cults that teach that polygamy is Godly and just. It's equally as sick.

It no wonder wherever one finds polygamy one also finds 50 year old men marrying 14 year old girls.
Coincidence?
I think not.
 
What about polyandry?

Tibetan women for example married all brothers/men in a family, to keep the land together.

A father and son could have the same wife, a mother and daughter could have the same husband. Or several daughters could share a husband.

A man could marry his wives sisters or his stepdaughters or his step mother

The Chinese banned it as part of their population control program, when they occupied Tibet.

But now that Tibetans are going back to their traditional ways, this form of marriage has made a comeback (officially still not legal)

http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/~wtv/tibet/marriage.html
 
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Statictical bias actually. The media chose to demonise it based on the "morals of sociaty" so they only report stories where its viewed as evil ie where it is mixed with child abuse

I suggest that you watch a program on SBS called "big love". Yes its a fiction but it doesnt portay it in the same way as the media does. Also what about hippy comunes

One further note just because its "religious" doesnt mean its the SAME "religion". There are 1000's of religions through out history and those are just the collective ones rather than belifes held by indervidual people. Not all of them took the post constine view of sex either.

Oh and i could just as easerly say where one finds relationships they find domestic vilonce Coincidence?
Or where one finds men they find sexual assult Coincidence?

Just because the media potraies all poligiomists as child abusers doesnt make it so any more than the image of a pedifile as a man makes all men pedifiles (or rapists or wife beeters ect)

SAM (finally on to you:p) i dont belive that there is the bilogical imperitive for more than one male as females can only carry one baby at a time where as a man can inpregnate ALOT of females. You know that

That being said as long as its concentual i find nothing wrong with what your talking about if thats the way they CHOSE to live
 
That is the thing. The children in some of these sects (who practice polygamy for instance) do not really get a choice. They are not allowed to gain any form of perspective outside of that particular sect. They are virtually groomed from birth to fulfill the role their religious leader has designated for them. That is not choice.
 
bells i am trying to devide the SECT from a poligimsit

If what your saying is that if PB and i decided that we both loved another women enough to alow her to share our lives as a three rather than as a two and we had kids that they would be automatically raised to belive that is an ok lifestyle your right

But then thats exactly what your doing with your own children, raising them to belive that two is an acceptable lifestyle and they should find a girl (i think your kids are boys:p sorry if im wrong, or maybe im not) get married ect ect

This is the same argument used against gay couples, that being gay is contagious and there for should be banned

IF however what your saying is that rasing your children to have sex with them is wrong and brain washing them into beliving its the right thing to do then i would compleatly agree with you.

But that destintion is very rarly made between the cult itself and poligamy and its just wrong
 
Asguard said:
bells i am trying to devide the SECT from a poligimsit

If what your saying is that if PB and i decided that we both loved another women enough to alow her to share our lives as a three rather than as a two and we had kids that they would be automatically raised to belive that is an ok lifestyle your right
Click to expand...

If all are consenting why not? If the child is not restricted or forced into believing your lifestyle is the only option for them, why not? If the child is free to choose for themselves what they want to do with their lives, seriously, why not?

But then thats exactly what your doing with your own children, raising them to belive that two is an acceptable lifestyle and they should find a girl (i think your kids are boys sorry if im wrong, or maybe im not) get married ect ect

This is the same argument used against gay couples, that being gay is contagious and there for should be banned
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How do you know what I am doing with children? My husband and I live together in a monogamous relationship, correct. Are you saying that we are wrong and should not be living as such because it is detrimental to our children? We are faithful to each other. That does not mean that we are going to force our son's to marry a girl or deny them their sexuality. You are reading more into it than there actually is.

I doubt any person could view my relationship with my husband and then automatically assign it as being somehow akin to denying our children their sexuality or their choices.

IF however what your saying is that rasing your children to have sex with them is wrong and brain washing them into beliving its the right thing to do then i would compleatly agree with you.
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The problem with this sect, the reason they were raided, is because the children born to the sect not only had no choice in life, they were also groomed from birth to fulfill their sexual roles within the sect itself. They had no say in what was to become of them. They were mentally, physically and sexually abused from childhood.

But that destintion is very rarly made between the cult itself and poligamy and its just wrong
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There are a lot of people who practice polygamy. The greater majority of them do not groom their children to follow in their steps, instead allowing their children to make their own choices. Nor do they force their children into following the same practices.
 
S.A.M. said:
What about polyandry?

Tibetan women for example married all brothers/men in a family, to keep the land together.

A father and son could have the same wife, a mother and daughter could have the same husband. Or several daughters could share a husband.

A man could marry his wives sisters or his stepdaughters or his step mother

The Chinese banned it as part of their population control program, when they occupied Tibet.

But now that Tibetans are going back to their traditional ways, this form of marriage has made a comeback (officially still not legal)

http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/~wtv/tibet/marriage.html
Click to expand...


I think this can be explained in terms of economics. Land is a scarce resource in Tibet and polyandry keeps it in the family. It a practical rather than a sexual issue. It may also explain the high percentage of Tibetans who become monks.
 
"There are a lot of people who practice polygamy. The greater majority of them do not groom their children to follow in their steps, instead allowing their children to make their own choices. Nor do they force their children into following the same practices"

thats my point bells, look at the last line of michaels post

"It no wonder wherever one finds polygamy one also finds 50 year old men marrying 14 year old girls.
Coincidence?
I think not."

Now thats the atitude i was arguing against not that in this CULT children are being abused or groomed for sex. Thats up to the courts to rule on however as for poligamy ALWAYS leading to child abuse its a stupid position that doesnt fit the facts
 
Bells said:
That is the thing. The children in some of these sects (who practice polygamy for instance) do not really get a choice. They are not allowed to gain any form of perspective outside of that particular sect. They are virtually groomed from birth to fulfill the role their religious leader has designated for them. That is not choice.
Click to expand...

Of course not. Particularly if you compare it with the wide range of choices available to Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, Fundies, to name a few.
 
S.A.M. said:
What about polyandry?
Click to expand...
I agree it's a moral issue and so there are not parameters except that which we accept.

Sure, in the past there was both polyandry and polygamy. There was also a norm of marrying women as soon as they could have a child. They also used to own Slaves and saw no moral qualms with that either. In some cultures it's OK to eat the dead.

But this is the modern day and in America.
We've developed socially. We no longer own slaves, we no longer have gun duals. Women are now legally equal with men.

As for the Mormons - they tie polygamy directly into their cults religious theology. Other than their founders desire to sire as many children from as many wives as he could, there really is no other bases for it in American culture.

So, I am really talking about modern day civilization in America.


As for the Tibetans - as I understand it, they started the practice of polyandry because high in the mountains there was little land. Two brothers marry one woman and the lands isn't split. Theoretically, it may have started as a natural method of population control? But, actually, it really doesn't matter. That's their culture and they can keep it. I actually wouldn't want them to change it.

So, in summary, I do not think we can equal three adults of equal age entering into a relationship that is common place in that society with a Religious cult brainwashing their children into polygamous relationships with their grandfathers buddies and teaching them GOD will rain down hellfire if they don't comply.

The comparisons may both be of fruit - but in this case of apples and pears.
 
Asguard said:
"There are a lot of people who practice polygamy. The greater majority of them do not groom their children to follow in their steps, instead allowing their children to make their own choices. Nor do they force their children into following the same practices"

thats my point bells, look at the last line of michaels post

"It no wonder wherever one finds polygamy one also finds 50 year old men marrying 14 year old girls.
Coincidence?
I think not."
Click to expand...

He's not that far off. The greater majority of sects where polygamy is the norm does find old men marrying underage girls.

Myles said:
Of course not. Particularly if you compare it with the wide range of choices available to Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, Fundies, to name a few.
Click to expand...
I was born into a strictly Catholic family and am an atheist with 2 unbaptised children. Neither of my parents have tried to kill me or kidnap me for 're-education'.:)
 
your contridicting yourself there bells

The first quote was your own so either a) the majority of poligimists ". The greater majority of them do not groom their children to follow in their steps, instead allowing their children to make their own choices. Nor do they force their children into following the same practices"

or b) the majority of poligimists DO groom there children to be there own sexual partners

Which is it bells?:p
 
Yorda said:
What's wrong with polygamy?
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I meant - to teach THESE children that what their religion is teaching them is wrong. And it is wrong. They are being groomed from birth just as Bells pointed out. Part of the indoctrination involved "God will rain down hell-fire if you do not submit to this 50 year old pedophile".

Take India for example. 50 years ago - wasn't the average age of marriage for a woman 12? Now it's 21. Wouldn't you consider that a social progression? NOW, suppose Indians decide in the year 2008 it's illegal to marry at 12. Is the argument "We used to marry at 12" good enough? No it's not. We accept that yes, in the past things were different, now lets continue progressing into the future.
 
Aren't teenagers in the US getting pregnant at 12 without the benefit of marriage?

Is that somehow a better social system?
 
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