Here's SG at the track.
Pilot who flew 2 planes used on 911 doesn't believe official Story
- Thread starter Ganymede
- Start date
Here's SG at the track.
lol I stand corrected
Well, obviously it would have to avoid the fire.
Ganymede
Valued Senior Member
Don't you find it supsicious that the only DL's to survive the crash were the terrorists Dl's? The Government said the fire incenerated the Blackbox, Luggage, passengers, plane debris, etc.
They all weigh more than a laminated piece of paper. Sometimes unlikely things happen. The IDs would be right in the front of the plane, which crashed before the wings full of fuel.
i just LOVE this sort of stuff.
this guy says:
then goes on to say:
lawyers would have a hayday with a person like that on the witness stand.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
It wasn't only the terrorist DLs and IDs that survived, the crash, some were I saw a photo of the minutia that was recovered, and it covered a warehouse floor, and the investigators were processing every bit of it to identify who was on the flight, and to return the valuables to the right families.
no.
not any more suspicious than papers surviving that inferno and drifting all the way to new jersey.
yes, the plane was incinerated.
that doesn't mean that NONE of it survived.
for example, they found the landing gear blocks away.
they found seats and seat cushions on top of adjacent buildings.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
And this guy was not interested in crashing into a building, so how would he know exactly what a dedicated terrorist would be capable of doing?
The limiting speed (VNE, velocity not exceed) for a Boeing 767 is 954 km/h (593 mph / 516 knots) at 35000 ft (10667 m). The aircraft doesn't come apart exactly at that speed but it will if flown long enough at those speeds, and the final run into the building was a short dash, and the planes were on a straight in run, and there was very little maneuvering in the final minute.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
You facts are sorely out of sync with reality.
BBC News | AMERICAS | Black box found in US search
US investigators have found a black box flight recorder from the hijacked airliner ... 94 bodies found at the WTC, but thousands thought to remain inside ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1543562.stm
Black Boxes found at Pentagon, WTC, Pennsylvania
Black Boxes: found at the Pentagon, WTC and Pennsylvania. their data would be MUCH more interesting than the videos of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon - they ...
http://www.oilempire.us/black-boxes.html
Ganymede
Valued Senior Member
I'll address these in a bit, but before I do
Sunday, 23 September, 2001, 12:30 GMT 13:30 UK
Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.
The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.
Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.
His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.
Hijacking suspects
Flight 175: Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi
Flight 11: Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Alomari and Satam Al Suqami
Flight 77: Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour
Flight 93: Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi
Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.
He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.
He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.
But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
For all I know Russ isn't even a real person, and if he is I don't know his credibility. His name on google turns up an illuminati websites, apparently exclusively. It would take a majority among pilots for ignorant people like me to believe. Apparently only some very highly skilled pilots could do this, who weren't terrorists, yet were persuaded to commit suicide while taking out a bunch of civilians?
He's apparently a Vietnam Vet and a former Air Force pilot so he must be suffering PTSD and is completely nuts. Everyone can breathe now. He's been proved to be unreliable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHLiMl7u8R0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHLiMl7u8R0
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Let see, Vietnam ended in 1975, that's 37 years ago, Russ Wittenberg, flew in Vietnam in F-100, The F-100 was with drawn from combat in Vietnam in 1970, that make 37 years since it would have been possible for Russ Wittenberg to have flown a F-100 in combat, as a pilot in Vietnam, Russ would have to have been at least 24 years old, you have to have a college degree to be a Pilot, and it take 2 years of training to qualify as a jet jockey, and he would have to have served some time in training Squadrons, so when did he have the time to put in over 30 years as a commercial pilot? he is lying some were, and most likely every were in his statements, the time line doesn't add up.
Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force, fighter pilot, commercial pilot flying 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777 's that's less than 4 years on a aircraft, that isn't a very good return on training investments, each of those aircraft will require a complete training course to become rated in them, were did Russ find all the time to qualify all of those different aircraft? and do a Air Force Career to?
dunno. your stated record on this forum is about the same.
throwing grenades, piloting helicopters, personally fistfighting gorbachev for the good of the good ol' u.s of a...
you arent one that should be scrutinizing plausibility of credentials.
pot calling the kettle black, fella.
arent vets supposed to do the euthnising? =p
I'll address these in a bit, but before I do
Sunday, 23 September, 2001, 12:30 GMT 13:30 UK
Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.
The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.
Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.
His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.
Hijacking suspects
Flight 175: Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi
Flight 11: Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Alomari and Satam Al Suqami
Flight 77: Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour
Flight 93: Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi
Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.
He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.
He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.
But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
Waleed and Wail were both mistakenly reported to have been found alive and well, by the BBC later in 2001. They were initially reported in error by a Saudi newspaper editor as the sons of Ahmed Alshehri, a senior Saudi diplomat stationed in Bombay, India.[wikipedia]
The confusion over names and identities we reported back in 2001 may have arisen because these were common Arabic and Islamic names.
In an effort to make this clearer, we have made one small change to the original story. Under the FBI picture of Waleed al Shehri we have added the words "A man called Waleed Al Shehri..." to make it as clear as possible that there was confusion over the identity. The rest of the story remains as it was in the archive as a record of the situation at the time.
We recently asked the FBI for a statement, and this is, as things stand, the closest thing we have to a definitive view: The FBI is confident that it has positively identified the nineteen hijackers responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Also, the 9/11 investigation was thoroughly reviewed by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States and the House and Senate Joint Inquiry. Neither of these reviews ever raised the issue of doubt about the identity of the nineteen hijackers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Really? I was a career NCO in the U.S. Army, I did a few years as a WO.2, and yes I threw some gernades, and I have flown Helicopters, and flying isn't the mystic process that this guy want to make out it is, The approach was basically straight in, no fancy manuvers, controaling a aircraft at speed is easyer than at slow speeds, you don't have to worry about stalling out, and the controal surfaces are operating at maximum effecency, plus the fact that these aircraft have power controls, so nothing extra ordinary needed as far as strength, the run in was made from several miles out, and the target Tower 1, was 232X232X1362 ft. one hell of a big target, that is wider than most landing strips, controaling a airplane in flight doesn't take extraordinary skill, the skill come in in taking it off, a rather simple skill in a fixed wing, and landing, again requireing just a moderat ammount of skill, to crash into a statonary target while in flight doesn't take any skill at all, put the building in the center of your wind screen and watch it all the way to impact.
The Terrorist had over a hour to become familar with the controals of the Aircraft, they had 14 hours in simulators and they weren't worried about taking off or landing.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
http://www.airsafe.com/journal/v1num16.htm
How Hard Is It to Fly a 757 or 767?
The AirSafe Journal™
17 September 2001
vol. 1 num. 16
After about a week of training, I was familiar with the layout of the flight deck and with the operation of the flight controls, autopilot, and navigation systems. As a result, flying the simulator was much less difficult than I had imagined at the beginning of the course. The most difficult part of the simulator training was takeoffs and landings. On the other hand, flying the aircraft in other phases of flight was relatively easy, even compared to flying a Cessna 172. Changing the aircraft's course, speed, or altitude was not very difficult when using either the autopilot system or when flying the aircraft manually. The flight control system made the aircraft rather responsive and made it easy to perform normal flying manuvers.
Given my experiences in the simulator, I feel that if I were to be put into a 757's cockpit in the middle of a flight on a relatively clear and sunny day, I would be able to change direction and altitude without any trouble. Given a basic knowledge of a region's geography and of available navigational aids, I would also be able to navigate well enough that I could find a major city and fly the aircraft to any major landmark in that city. Because the basic cockpit layout and many of the procedures used in the 757 are almost identical to those of the 767, I feel that the same would be true for a 767.
In short, I believe that any person who has earned a private pilot's license and who has access to the same kind of ground school and simulator training that I received could fly a 757 or 767 well enough to hit a large building. Given the wide availability of this kind of training, it would appear that the kind of terrorist actions that took place in New York and Washington could easily be repeated in the future.
How Hard Is It to Fly a 757 or 767?
The AirSafe Journal™
17 September 2001
vol. 1 num. 16
After about a week of training, I was familiar with the layout of the flight deck and with the operation of the flight controls, autopilot, and navigation systems. As a result, flying the simulator was much less difficult than I had imagined at the beginning of the course. The most difficult part of the simulator training was takeoffs and landings. On the other hand, flying the aircraft in other phases of flight was relatively easy, even compared to flying a Cessna 172. Changing the aircraft's course, speed, or altitude was not very difficult when using either the autopilot system or when flying the aircraft manually. The flight control system made the aircraft rather responsive and made it easy to perform normal flying manuvers.
Given my experiences in the simulator, I feel that if I were to be put into a 757's cockpit in the middle of a flight on a relatively clear and sunny day, I would be able to change direction and altitude without any trouble. Given a basic knowledge of a region's geography and of available navigational aids, I would also be able to navigate well enough that I could find a major city and fly the aircraft to any major landmark in that city. Because the basic cockpit layout and many of the procedures used in the 757 are almost identical to those of the 767, I feel that the same would be true for a 767.
In short, I believe that any person who has earned a private pilot's license and who has access to the same kind of ground school and simulator training that I received could fly a 757 or 767 well enough to hit a large building. Given the wide availability of this kind of training, it would appear that the kind of terrorist actions that took place in New York and Washington could easily be repeated in the future.