That's more of that misdirected patriotism I was talking about. These people want to do something to publicly display whose side they're on, so they set out to destroy the most convenient symbol of the "other side" they can get, rather than keep their heads about them and just put a "hooray for our side" sign in the front room window.
Patriotism is wrong
- Thread starter spuriousmonkey
- Start date
Patriotism is a part of our being, and gives us fulfillment when its not taken too seriously. It is when patriotism is taken too seriously problems start, and people start making threads like this one. To be patriotic is to acknowledge once presence in the community, to associate oneself with people around you. If person physically or mentally dissociates himself from community, need for patriotism and its factor disappear by themselves. But if a person lives in the healthy environment ( I mean around people he respects and has no dislikes to) within a community he will almost always have some kind of patriotism. As I repeat myself patriotism is only positive and beneficial when its not take too seriously and just a minor factor in daily affairs.
Is it? I view americans as an example of ultra nationalism and patriotism.
Nah, you're only seeing things from the smaller picture of the here and now, which is admittedly where we have to live. Look at the larger picture throughout history and the rest if the world. It's pretty mild here, with isolated cases of over-reaction.
Is it? I want to leave the US mainly because i don't want my children raised in a system aimed at indoctrinating children to be good americans (patriots). that is the main reason. So is the problem one to be minimalized?
Some of the people in American history who we hold today as being pinnacles of patriotism actually held what would be considered very unpatriotic beliefs. Thomas Jefferson believed that no man who wanted to be president should be allowed to have the job, and also believed that we needed an armed revolution every few years just to keep the government honest. Andrew Jackson thought Washington was a wussy. Ethan Allen hated everybody at the capitol and started making overtures to the British when Congress started jerking him around about Vermont's statehood. Washington thought Hancock was a spineless jerk when it came to directing Congress. Commodore Stephen Decatur, General William Eaton, and General Andrew Jackson came within a hair's breadth of taking Aaron Burr up on his offer to head up an armed resistance and secede the then-western portion of the United States from the rest of the country. (Decatur himself was accused of being too chummy with the British during the War of 1812, although it came to nothing.)
Yet through their own dissatisfactions and disillusionments with the way things were turning out, they stayed the course anyway. Commodore Decatur once said "Our country, right or wrong..." The underlying tone to the whole speech would have finished this quote with "...when right to keep her right, when wrong to make her right."
What would you be willing to do if you genuinely believed your homeland was seriously in the wrong about something major?
Yet through their own dissatisfactions and disillusionments with the way things were turning out, they stayed the course anyway. Commodore Decatur once said "Our country, right or wrong..." The underlying tone to the whole speech would have finished this quote with "...when right to keep her right, when wrong to make her right."
What would you be willing to do if you genuinely believed your homeland was seriously in the wrong about something major?
Anomalous What?
I'm not sure I get you. Are you saying you think I keep two identities on this board? No, I used to be the moderator of the Religion forum before things got reorganized, but my work schedule changed and I was unable to keep up with it so I handed it off and am no longer a moderator. I only have the one identity here.
And I picked the cow because cows seem to be the majority of life forms (aside from flies) out here. Moo.
I'm not sure I get you. Are you saying you think I keep two identities on this board? No, I used to be the moderator of the Religion forum before things got reorganized, but my work schedule changed and I was unable to keep up with it so I handed it off and am no longer a moderator. I only have the one identity here.
And I picked the cow because cows seem to be the majority of life forms (aside from flies) out here. Moo.
I see U are here from 1999, but there will be no here in the futureOxygen said:Anomalous What?
I'm not sure I get you. Are you saying you think I keep two identities on this board? No, I used to be the moderator of the Religion forum before things got reorganized, but my work schedule changed and I was unable to keep up with it so I handed it off and am no longer a moderator. I only have the one identity here.
And I picked the cow because cows seem to be the majority of life forms (aside from flies) out here. Moo.
http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=969627#post969627
spuriousmonkey said:
It's not very nice to mock people, is it? Or did your mommy teach you that it was okay to mock people who weren't just like you or didn't believe exactly as you believe? Are you teaching your children to mock others in the same way?
spuriousmonkey said:
Oh, surely you jest!? As I see it, we elitist members of this forum agree on everything ....or am I just reading the wrong posts or something?
I am sorta' curious, however ...if you find someone who is patriotic, why should that bother you or anyone else? I don't get it.
Baron Max
Patriotism is an outcrop of human tribalism.
The only difference being that with tribalism a sense of intimacy exists between its members where a group is small enough to nurture direct relationships whereas with nationalism this same sense is diluted into an abstraction with which we create or are indoctrinated into a relationship based on common ideals and interests but lacking in intimacy and directness.
The only difference being that with tribalism a sense of intimacy exists between its members where a group is small enough to nurture direct relationships whereas with nationalism this same sense is diluted into an abstraction with which we create or are indoctrinated into a relationship based on common ideals and interests but lacking in intimacy and directness.
Where did I mention that I cared?Baron Max said:
As far as I’m concerned patriotism, as it exists in our modern world, facilitates population control.
How else would healthy young men and women go kill and die for oil and on behalf of someone else’s interests, all under the illusion that they were fighting for their nation and their principles and for what is “right” and “just’ when they couldn’t define either concept if asked?
Patriotism is normal and natural and necesary if a nation is to survive. It is only when one is taught to NOT be patriotic because to do so is "jingoistic" or insensitive to multicultural values that patriotism declines.spuriousmonkey said:
Patriotism is necesary to bind a nation together and to give its people the confidence to do the things that must be done. When a nation loses its patriotism, its confidence, we get crap like these Muslum idiots rioting and burning and killing over cartoons while no one does shit about it. Plays about islam will no longer be made in Europe because playrights are afraid of being killed. See how many cartoons are made from now on.
Perhaps if you European weenies taught the importance of national pride, of patriotism, such things would not happen. What do we get instead? An unending litany of complaints of how evil the West is and how it is responsible for all the worlds ills from global warming to slavery. Assimilation can not occur in a setting where patriotism doesn't exist. Why assimilate? This place is nothing special.
People need something to believe in, something to belong to. Since the Left has convinced many people that love of country is wrong, Muslum immigrants continue to follow their old ways. They continue to love islam more than their host country.
Now you see what that leads to. If we're going to live together and accept immigrants, it's not too much to ask that we and any newcomers pledge allegiance to our nation. That they love our nation. But how can we ask this if we do not love it ourselves?