Oxnard shooting victim has died

[phlogistician]

Gun control won't solve anything. When a POS murderer wants to get a gun it's easier than getting milk at the corner store in many places. More people should have guns. If they did they could stop pukes like this who think it's ok to kill innocent people.

Describe how that works for me, 'Sandy', ... Perp Kid takes a gun into class, nothing odd about that in the situation you describe, where everyone carries. Perp Kid then squeezes off two at Victim Kid, fatally wounding him. What is everone else with a gun going to do? Put their guns into reverse and suck the bullets out of Victim Kid? Guns do not stop people from getting shot, and to think so is ludicrous.

Check the stats. In the areas where they have the highest rates of guns (concealed, with permits) they have the lowest gun crime rates.

You assume causality. I would venture places with low crime then allow concealed carry. Show me stats where concealed carry has a proven causal effect on lowering crime.

And when some POS starts shooting like the POS today in IL, someone with a concealed gun could have taken him out after the first shot. 16 other people would have been spared.

That's BS 'Sandy', you see some person pull a gun, but what if they are pulling in response to someone else drawing? Before you know it, it would be like the shoot out at the OK Corral. Maybe you forget stories such as these, where there are blue on blue incidents;

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10750040/

You think more guns will lead to fewer tragedies, but that will be offset by prevention? Based on current statistics, where the USA has a higher homicide rate than other developed countries with gun control, it isn't looking likely, is it?

Look at the facts ( I know you find them inconvenient ) UK, strict laws wrt guns = low gun crime, Australia, the same, Japan, the same, USA, lax laws, prevalent firearms = lots of gun related deaths. Surely you can see this. Oh no, you can't, you're narrow minded.

 

[Asguard]

oops sorry that was the state rate for the number of drivers killed with a BAC of over 0.05

I was 21 out from the rate i wanted. I only wanted a state rate not a country rate. That being said however maybe i SHOULD have used the country rate seeing as that is equal to what? a 1 day kill rate in a major US city?

 

[phlogistician]

That seemed a little low to me so i did a search on murder rate ... It's a few years old however 256 is considerably more than 30, where does 30 come from?

30 is possibly the gun homicide rate, not the overall homicide rate. The figures I could find only covered up to 2001, but showed gun homicides to be less than 100;

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066.html

Also, those figures do show a general downward trend in gun homicides, but that's the tricky thing, when there are so few, one incident can skew the stats. One incident in the USA however, would not even make a ripple in the stats. As gun homicide has always been low in Australia, it's easy to see that they make up a small proportion of homicides in general, so the increased measures were never going to have a big effect on the overall rate, and nor were they meant to.

 

[Asguard]

As i said rembered the wrong statistic. I was after the murder rate of 51

edit to add actually the murder rate would probably be lower than 30. If you ignore tha gang land killings because they were a one off rather than a concistant problem then i would guess for victoria you would be looking at maybe less than 10 murders by gun. That is a guess though

 

[sandy]

Remember when the woman shot the shooter at the church in CO? The anti-gun candy @sses were cowering in the corners while the woman protected them. When only the shooter POS has a gun, your odds of surviving greatly decrease. Bring in people packing and your odds go WAY up. What kind of an illogical fool would be waiting to be shot by some POS maniac, all the while being thankful that only the predator had a gun?

States that allow concealed weapons have lower violent crime. What POS would chance committing a crime if he thought the guy next to him was packing? It worked in MI: http://boortz.com/nuze/200801/01092008.html

FBI data show states that allow citizens to carry concealed weapons have an 24% lower violent crime rate, 19% lower homicide rate and 39% lower robbery rate compared to other states.

“The fact is the nine lowest violent crime states in the country are in states that have concealed carry laws. These states that allow individuals to carry concealed firearms have seen tremendous drops in their rates of homicide, robbery and aggravated assault." http://badgerherald.com/news/2002/02/28/assembly_approves_co.php

Some people just won't let logic get in the way of an emotional argument.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=2445
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html
http://www.azccw.com/More Facts & Statistics.htm

 

[Challenger78]

How this for logic, the USA as a country has more gun related deaths than any first world nation combined. And you call yourself the leader of the free world.

 

[sandy]

How this for logic, the USA as a country has more gun related deaths than any first world nation combined. And you call yourself the leader of the free world.

We also have the most POS people in our population which is growing by the day with criminal aliens. It's not the guns. It's the people.

 

[Challenger78]

We also have the most POS people in our population which is growing by the day with criminal aliens. It's not the guns. It's the people.

You're right. It is the people. It's the people that continue to support gun rights despite the obvious fallacies. It's the people that elect the same leader that lied in order to get into a war. It's the people that will be continued to be suckered by lies and deciet, The people who will be cheated of their lives, their families and eventually themselves.

Welcome to the system.

 

[phlogistician]

Remember when the woman shot the shooter at the church in CO? The anti-gun candy @sses were cowering in the corners while the woman protected them.

IIRC the perp shot himself, she shot him post mortem. What was your point?

When only the shooter POS has a gun, your odds of surviving greatly decrease. Bring in people packing and your odds go WAY up.

Unless you are an off duty cop pointing a gun at a perp, and an on duty cop shoots you, as in the link I provided.

What kind of an illogical fool would be waiting to be shot by some POS maniac, all the while being thankful that only the predator had a gun?

Well, in the UK, because we have very strict laws, the POS as you put it find it very hard to get hold of guns, so it isn't a concern. The ease of access has made this problem, but you seem unwilling to do anything about it. The claim is often made that criminals break the law, so laws will do nothing to prevent them from getting guns, but that is false; if the law abiding put up with some fomalities, the criminal element can be excluded. It's up to law abiding gun owners therefore, to put up with licensing and registration, to exclude perps.

States that allow concealed weapons have lower violent crime.

I asked for a statistical proof that the new carry law was the cause, 'Sandy', but you cannot claim that these measures have caused any drop, especially considering the number of gun homicides is falling across the USA as a whole;

FBI data show states that allow citizens to carry concealed weapons have an 24% lower violent crime rate, 19% lower homicide rate and 39% lower robbery rate compared to other states.

Concealed carry is allowed via a permit yes? So you are fan of gun registration now? Either way, you still haven't proven causality.

“The fact is the nine lowest violent crime states in the country are in states that have concealed carry laws. These states that allow individuals to carry concealed firearms have seen tremendous drops in their rates of homicide, robbery and aggravated assault." http://badgerherald.com/news/2002/02/28/assembly_approves_co.php

Against a backdrop of lessening gun crime, countrywide, you still have not proven causality.

Some people just won't let logic get in the way of an emotional argument.

Sure it's emotional;

"In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics) "

But it's also logical. The USA has more guns per household (except Switzerland, where reservists keep an army rifle) than other developed nations, and the most gun homicides.

More guns = more homicides. Taking away guns will save lives.

 

[cjwalter]

Apparently, there is a misconception concerning free press. In the U.S., free speech is a part of the constitution that is avidly practiced. As a result, the incidents occurring within our boarders are exposed like a blemish on one's face.
Not everyone totes a gun in the U.S. though when considering the number of those who hold registered firearms, the number of gun related deaths by the same are minimal. The U.S. constitution also promises the right to bear arms and again these rights are taken seriously. U.S citizens would not stand for the censoring of news that so often occurs in many other prominent countries. It is much easier to manage gun related deaths when they are exposed rather than hidden like a festering sore.

 

[Neildo]

This happened right down the street from me. And no, gun control isn't gonna do a darn thing. Where this happened is right in the area of South Oxnard where most drugs and guns are imported into Ventura County and the cops are bought off so they can do business. The area around it is a military area so lots of vet homes are armed so it's fine over there, so all that stuff is confined to a small area. Stuff like that happens all the time but it only gets attention now ever since Columbine. Hell, back in the 90's, that crap happened all the time at my high school yet it never got attention. That's real life.

Edit: Anyone also notice that the two students involved were 14 and 15 in junior high?

- N

 

[Asguard]

Boy killed for being gay

i have daytime tv on in the background (i know, its sad) and i noticed the artical that was currently on was on a really young boy in the US who was murdered by a boy he asked to be his valintine

It was on the "elen" show

I dont know anything more than that because the artical was so short but this is RIDICULAS

killing a young boy because he asked another boy out?????

What has the world come to?

 

[Norsefire]

A better question is, what has the world come to accepting gays into society?

Now, I condemn this murder for being just that (a murder), but nonetheless sexual perversions shouldn't be tolerated, pursued, or encouraged.

 

[Syzygys]

I did read the story. Generally in high school the military's don't ask don't tell policy should be valid.
This kid came out a year earlier, first mistake. At 14 to be gay isn't cool. Second mistake he started to wear fancy clothes, basicly he was fleshing his sexuality, it never a good thing specially if it goes against the norm. Third, asking a non0gay boy to be a valentine is kind of an insult specially at that age.

Again, don't ask, don't tell. When he is 18 and out of highschool he would have got plenty of chances of living his own style. I am just explaining so you have a better view on the case...

 

[Asguard]

Syzygys why should HE have to hide his sexuality?

I mean say that it wasnt the boy he asked out (and thats a mestake anyone could make at that age, i asked a girl out who didnt like me at all). Lets say he found a boy who liked him and they were kissing in the hall way, what would be worse about THIS than a girl and a boy kissing in the same spot. As long as we force people to hide who they are we a) increase the chances of mental illness and b) increase the fear of the thing itself

As for the boy who murdered him where the hell did HIS atitude come from?
I mean distaine, ridicule i could understand but what could possably make a KID murder because someone, ANYONE asked him out??????

 

[Asguard]

oh BTW Syzygys do you have a link to the incident?
I would have liked to post one but i dont know where to look

 

[Norsefire]

Syzygys why should HE have to hide his sexuality?

I mean say that it wasnt the boy he asked out (and thats a mestake anyone could make at that age, i asked a girl out who didnt like me at all). Lets say he found a boy who liked him and they were kissing in the hall way, what would be worse about THIS than a girl and a boy kissing in the same spot. As long as we force people to hide who they are we a) increase the chances of mental illness and b) increase the fear of the thing itself

As for the boy who murdered him where the hell did HIS atitude come from?
I mean distaine, ridicule i could understand but what could possably make a KID murder because someone, ANYONE asked him out??????

Encouraging sexual perversion (which is what homosexuality is) is nonetheless wrong. The boy doesn't have to be gay, he chooses to be (or fools himself into thinking he just is). Not only that, it goes against conservation of tradition and classical ideals. What next, legalizing drugs and prostitutes?

 

[draqon]

the world has been the same as ever before

its just the media now makes sure we hear all about it and with the most noir colors possible

 

[Norsefire]

the world has been the same as ever before

its just the media now makes sure we hear all about it and with the most noir colors possible

dragon what is your opinion on homosexuality? I'm curious to know.

 

[draqon]

dragon what is your opinion on homosexuality? I'm curious to know.

stay away from them, don't hurt them and don't encourage their activities. Keep children away.