Original Sin?

"Original Sin" is NOT a Pauline doctrine.

Humanity did not come to Earth live in the bodies of animals.

Human beings are not spirits. Take a look in the mirror.

If even by your argument spirits were sent to earth by God to live as animals, then copulation would not be a sin.
 
§outh§tar said:
"Original Sin" is NOT a Pauline doctrine.
*************
M*W: Then who is responsible for "original sin? (if not Paul)?
Click to expand...
Humanity did not come to Earth live in the bodies of animals.
***(**********
M*W: Then who IS responsible for "original sin?" (if not Paul)?
Click to expand...
Human beings are not spirits. Take a look in the mirror.
*************
M*W: Then what is the purpose of human beings?
*************
Click to expand...
If even by your argument spirits were sent to earth by God to live as animals, then copulation would not be a sin.
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: When has copulation ever been a sin (other than between A&E?).
 
§outh§tar said:
"Original Sin" is NOT a Pauline doctrine.

Humanity did not come to Earth live in the bodies of animals.

Human beings are not spirits. Take a look in the mirror.

If even by your argument spirits were sent to earth by God to live as animals, then copulation would not be a sin.
Click to expand...

Every doctrine in Christianity, save a few elements regarding Baptism and the Holy Sacrament, are directly from Paul. That is why both Protestant Churches and even the Catholic Church refer to paul as not 'an' Apostle but supersuperlatively as 'THE' Apostle. Doctrinally he ecllipses Christ. Simeon the Prophet did say that Jesus would be contradicted, and He certainly was. His body had not grown cold before everything was changed.

Yes, Human Beings are not spirits. That afterall is exactly what I was pointing out. But we do have a spiritual seed within us and we can become spiritual. Only a relative handful of Souls in all of History have managed it, but it is possible to transcend our animality. Then we become Saints.

Yes, if you wish to remain an animal then copulation is not a sin. But if you look at it from a Spiritual Perspective, then certainly it is a sin. If you are a pig then rolling in your own excrement is most acceptable. But what is good for the pig is disgraceful for the Man. And what is acceptable to the Man is disgraceful to the Spirit.
 
okinrus said:
Leo, don't you believe that marriage is a sacrament?
Click to expand...

When the Pharisees brought up the subject of marriage, Christ instantly dismissed the subject, saying that there is no marriage in Heaven and that in Heaven we would all be spiritual 'like the angels'. His intent was clear -- that marriage was at most an earthly arrangement for the disposal of property. It had no spiritual importance.

But Paul the Antichrist evoked the Doctrine of Plato -- that each apparent individual is only a half, and that no one is Complete until a copulative union with one of the other sex. This is pure socratic invention -- Romantic Chick talk intended to appeal to the prurient and sensual Greek audience. It has no foundation in reality.

The Doctrine of Justified Sacramental Fornication has only circled around to bite the Church in the Butt -- just as every Doctrine established by the Antichrist has. Now every Minister in the Dark Church insists upon the right to copulate like dogs, because paul portrayed it in the most flattering colors.

But actually if a person wants to toss his Spiritual Dignity out the window and hump like monkey, then, okay, why not. Sometimes on the Spiritual Path we over eat. Sometimes we are lazy. And sometimes we get laid. But to make it a sacrament is Blasphemous! We don't make a sacrament of getting drunk. We don't make a sacrament of gambling. We don't make a sacrament of lying or stealing or murder. Why then should we make a sacrament of the Sin of Copulation?
 
mario said:
Umm, didn't god himself say "go forth and hump like a monkey"?
Click to expand...

That is what the Jewish Scriptures say. Now we need to examine the Social and Economic System they were living in. For the longest time the Hebrews were Tribal Pastural Nomads. Overpopulation was not a big deal. Land was not held in ownership. Pastural Nomads agreed NOT to insist upon ownership. When one strip of land was grazed out, they would simply move onto land that was not grazed out. Eventually one Klan/Language Group of Nomads would collide with another and then there would be something of a War and the weaker side would be squeezed out. In just such a situation, the larger network of Klans would have the advantage. "Be fruitful and multiply", because we might need all your babies to fight our Battles.

But if the Bible had been written by settled Agrarians, it would have been different. Settled Agrarians cannot divide up a limited amount of land generation after generation. In Europe it was decided that only the First Sons would inheret the land, and second and third sons would have to become soldiers, lawyers, or Priests. In some cultures all the sons are only allowed to marry one wife in common, so that there can only be a reasonable number of sons born to that generation. The land must be able to support the children one delivers.

Israel is now using the Breeding Practices of Pastural Nomads when they are a Settled Agrarian Culture now. This means that they will forever be under increased pressure to move into other people's territories. To make room for themselves, they must genocide everyone in their way.

Besides, I think God has more on His mind then Family Planning.
 
Man a whole lot of bible thumpers on this thread!! How unfortunate that they don't read the godamn book at all or else they would find these to thump!!:

Genesis: Killed for the first jack off!!.

38:7
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
38:8
And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
38:9
And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
38:10
And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. :D :eek:

Lot the first Pimp!?.

19:5
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
19:6
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
19:7
And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
19:8
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

I don't think I would sacrifice any doughter of mine for some of god's angels would you?. ;)

BIBLE THUMPERS BEWARE!!! Godless is in town!! And I can thump as well!! open your eyes see the NOT SO GOOD BOOK!! from an objectivist mind.

Godless.
 
Medicine Woman said:
*************
M*W: When has copulation ever been a sin (other than between A&E?).
Click to expand...

Well he was claiming something to that effect..

Sex has never been a sin according to the Laws of Moses, Jesus, or the Bible as a whole.

Not for Mary and Joseph, not for Adam and Eve. The new definition for sex is, it's a gift to man...
 
Godless said:
Man a whole lot of bible thumpers on this thread!! How unfortunate that they don't read the godamn book at all or else they would find these to thump!!:

Genesis: Killed for the first jack off!!.

38:7
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
38:8
And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
38:9
And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
38:10
And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. :D :eek:

Lot the first Pimp!?.
Click to expand...

Let me quote Jamieson, Fausset and Brown on this:

The first instance of a custom, which was afterwards incorporated among the laws of Moses, that when a husband died leaving a widow, his brother next of age was to marry her, and the issue, if any, was to be served heir to the deceased (compare Deuteronomy 25:5).

It's called a custom, and as you can see, it was incorporated among the laws of Moses. Meaning it was not part of God's law. Man makes custom, not God.

19:5
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
19:6
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
19:7
And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
19:8
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

I don't think I would sacrifice any doughter of mine for some of god's angels would you?. ;)

BIBLE THUMPERS BEWARE!!! Godless is in town!! And I can thump as well!! open your eyes see the NOT SO GOOD BOOK!! from an objectivist mind.

Godless.
Click to expand...

I thought this fallacious claim had already been settled? Since you are a "Bible thumper", you will do well to go to the story of Abraham and the sacrificing (well almost) of Isaac. Mind you, Abraham is mentioned first in the "Biblical hall of fame".

From Matthew Henry:

v. 6. He spoke civilly to them, called them brethren (v. 7), and begged of them not to do so wickedly; and, being greatly disturbed at their vile attempt, he unadvisedly and unjustifiably offered to prostitute his two daughters to them, v. 8. It is true, of two evils we must choose the less; but of two sins we must choose neither, nor ever do evil that good may come of it. He reasoned with them, pleaded the laws of hospitality and the protection of his house which his guests were entitled to; but he might as well have offered reason to a roaring lion and a raging bear as to these head-strong sinners, who were governed only by lust and passion. Lot’s arguing with them does but exasperate them; and, to complete their wickedness, and fill up the measure of it, they fall foul upon him. (1.) They ridicule him, charge him with the absurdity of pretending to be a magistrate, when he was not so much as a free-man of their city, v. 9. Note, It is common for a reprover to be unjustly upbraided as a usurper; and, while offering the kindness of a friend, to be charged with assuming the authority of a judge: as if a man might not speak reason without taking too much upon him. (2.) They threaten him, and lay violent hands upon him; and the good man is in danger of being pulled in pieces by this outrageous rabble. Note, [1.] Those that hate to be reformed hate those that reprove them, though with ever so much tenderness. Presumptuous sinners do by their consciences as the Sodomites did by Lot, baffle their checks, stifle their accusations, press hard upon them, till they have seared them and quite stopped their mouths, and so made themselves ripe for ruin. [2.] Abuses offered to God’s messengers and to faithful reprovers soon fill the measure of a people’s wickedness, and bring destruction without remedy. See Prov. 29:1, and 2 Chr. 36:16. If reproofs remedy not, there is no remedy. See 2 Chr. 25:16. III. That nothing less than the power of an angel could save a good man out of their wicked hands. It was now past dispute what Sodom’s character was and what course must be taken with it, and therefore the angels immediately give a specimen of what they further intended. 1. They rescue Lot, v. 10. Note, He that watereth shall be watered also himself. Lot was solicitous to protect them, and now they take effectual care for his safety, in return for his kindness. Note further, Angels are employed for the special preservation of those that expose themselves to danger by well-doing. The saints, at death, are pulled like Lot into a house of perfect safety, and the door shut for ever against those that pursue them. 2. They chastise the insolence of the Sodomites: They smote them with blindness, v. 11. This was designed, (1.) To put an end to their attempt, and disable them from pursuing it. Justly were those struck blind who had been deaf to reason. Violent persecutors are often infatuated so that they cannot push on their malicious designs against God’s messengers, Job 5:14, 15. Yet these Sodomites, after they were struck blind, continued seeking the door, to break it down, till they were tired. No judgments will, of themselves, change the corrupt natures and purposes of wicked men. If their minds had not been blinded as well as their bodies, they would have said, as the magicians, This is the finger of God, and would have submitted. (2.) It was to be an earnest of their utter ruin, the next day. When God, in a way of righteous judgment, blinds men, their condition is already desperate, Rom. 11:8, 9.
 
excuusse me! are there not rules against excessive quotations? where is moderator james?
i reccomend penalties if such blatant trangressions of the forum rules continue

ps: on a conciliatory and christian note....the boards over at aol do not mind caps nor pages of quotes. consider them, southstar
 
§outh§tar said:
"Original Sin" is NOT a Pauline doctrine.

Humanity did not come to Earth live in the bodies of animals.

Human beings are not spirits. Take a look in the mirror.

If even by your argument spirits were sent to earth by God to live as animals, then copulation would not be a sin.
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: Everything in creation is part of the One Spirit of God. There is no such thing as individual spirits. I look in the mirror and I see myself. When other people look at me, I've been told they see my spirit. I, too, recognize the same spirit in them. Human beings evolved/were created to be the living vessels that carry the One Spirit of God.

God created One Body of Humanity to carry the One Spirit of God on Earth. God created humanity in the flesh (Adam) and and inspired into Adam the One Spirit of God. To perfect humanity (Adam) with the One Spirit of God, God created Eve who was the source of Adam's wisdom. God gave Adam and Eve individual reproductive systems to complement each other. Copulation is what animals do based on natural instinct but not sexual desire. Humans have been given the wisdom of sexual desire and the ability to have orgasms. In the entire history of evolution no other female animal but the human female can have orgasms. Therefore, since God created humans to have orgasms, the sexual desire human beings feel as well as the ability to experience orgasms is NOT a sin! Didn't God say, "be fruitful and multiply?" All creative inspiration comes from the sexual aspect of our brain and our spirit, the libido, whether that sexual desire results in humans having orgasms, creating magnificant paintings, wonderous prose or poetry, art, architecture, song, or dance, etc.. All creativity stems from our sexual self, and it is a blessing God gave to us and is NOT a sin! I hope you will be able to learn how to indulge your God-given, but obviously unfulfilled, sexual needs.
 
Medicine Woman said:
*************
M*W: Everything in creation is part of the One Spirit of God. There is no such thing as individual spirits. I look in the mirror and I see myself. When other people look at me, I've been told they see my spirit. I, too, recognize the same spirit in them. Human beings evolved/were created to be the living vessels that carry the One Spirit of God.

God created One Body of Humanity to carry the One Spirit of God on Earth. God created humanity in the flesh (Adam) and and inspired into Adam the One Spirit of God. To perfect humanity (Adam) with the One Spirit of God, God created Eve who was the source of Adam's wisdom. God gave Adam and Eve individual reproductive systems to complement each other. Copulation is what animals do based on natural instinct but not sexual desire. Humans have been given the wisdom of sexual desire and the ability to have orgasms. In the entire history of evolution no other female animal but the human female can have orgasms. Therefore, since God created humans to have orgasms, the sexual desire human beings feel as well as the ability to experience orgasms is NOT a sin! Didn't God say, "be fruitful and multiply?" All creative inspiration comes from the sexual aspect of our brain and our spirit, the libido, whether that sexual desire results in humans having orgasms, creating magnificant paintings, wonderous prose or poetry, art, architecture, song, or dance, etc.. All creativity stems from our sexual self, and it is a blessing God gave to us and is NOT a sin! I hope you will be able to learn how to indulge your God-given, but obviously unfulfilled, sexual needs.
Click to expand...

I hope you will join us in the Ethics, Morality & Justice room to give your insights on sex education for teens... ;)
 
Sex has never been a sin according to the Laws of Moses, Jesus, or the Bible as a whole.
Click to expand...

LOL!! you've got to be kidding! I know for sure now you hardly ever read your goddamn bible!!.

Mind you this is graphic. This are the instructions of what to do just to clean a bit of cum.

Leviticus:

15:16
And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
15:17
And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.
15:18
The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even.

And if a chick is on her period wow!!

15:19
And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.
15:20
And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean.
15:21
And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
15:22
And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
15:23
And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.

15:24
And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.
15:25
And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean.
15:26
Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation.
15:27
And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
15:28
But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.
15:29
And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
15:30
And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.
15:31
Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness, when they defile my tabernacle that is among them.

Now that!! is a isue agaist the natural phenomenon of just plain living.

BTW southstar,

I don't care about all the bull shiet you just wrote back! here is the issue as i see it: Two angels come to visit lot, and he gives them refuge in his house, correct? well why the hell would a host have to offer two virgin doughters to a croud, when supposedly the "omnipotent" jack ass upstairs sends two of his thugs to take care business, with us sinners? It's not a bit of thinking you have to do as to give up TWO OF YOUR DOUGHTERS to a croud only to please an unforgiving an unjustifiable god, for his actions. Is this MORAL in your blind liltle head?, is that morality of god?. Forgive me But that kind of morality I don't want it!!

Godless.
 
Last edited:
§outh§tar said:
I hope you will join us in the Ethics, Morality & Justice room to give your insights on sex education for teens... ;)
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: As a medical professional, I teach truthful sex education to the teens I see in my practice. They're already quite misinformed by their peers. Like I've already stated, sexual desire is a beautiful, God-given gift. It stems from our innermost spirit, and when sex is used indiscriminately, or used in an abusive way, or forced on someone too young to understand its spiritual significance, it can destroy one's soul. Medicine is easy, really, because there is only one disease -- loss of the soul, and although I treat all kinds of physical complaints, I know the true source of their pain.
 
What I meant to say is humans practice lawlessness.
Click to expand...
I don't think there was ever a human community that didn't have a set of rules of conduct, even if they weren't written down. If laws were never violated there would be no need for them. In a situation with an absence of laws, people invent them. Almost by definition, humans are animals with laws.
 
Original sin implies that as soon as we are born, there is some sin associated with us. Wether born into a law abiding society or not, babies are all born the same. So, to say humans are lawless does not really address this issue. What did a newborn baby do to deserve the label of "sinner"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top