I never sat down and read it. Most of the stuff i learn here from links.
On the grounds of what are Christians so sure they will go to heaven?
- Thread starter wynn
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I never sat down and read it. Most of the stuff i learn here from links.
Oh, come on, you can do better than that.
Heaven is Gods place, His base of operations if you like. It is not in this universe. I don't believe i will be going there. Or if i do it will not be my permeant abode. If i do exist in God's "dimension" (and i use that word because that’s the closest concept to it that exists in my language) it will only be from the time of my death to the time of the return of the Messiah Jesus to earth. Then i will be with Him. There are different thoughts about where we exist between death and resection. I am not a firm believer of either side of that internal Christian debate. But after the resurrection i believe i will be in a body and living on the earth. I will live here 1000 years with Jesus until the final judgement and the coming of the New Jerusalem to earth. The New Jerusalem is described in the book of revelation and it's description is often used by people to describe Heaven. But The New Jerusalem is not Heaven as scriptures state the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. It is not Heaven itself.
Revelation 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
If you wish to read the description you can read on here: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21&version=NKJV
The New Jerusalem is not Heaven it is a Place prepared by God for thoes who believe Him and accept His will.
As for what we will be doing there? I got no idea. And i really don't spend much time worrying or thinking about it. What attracts me is not the beauty or majesty of the place but it the love that will me mine there, YAVEH who will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Emotional and personal needs are both stupid reasons to accept or reject an invisible and untestable supernatural being. I don't care if you convert a few atheists to your cause after they cool off; based on what you say, they weren't thinking rationally when they decided to be atheists in the first place.
I hate gravity, therefore I'm no longer going to believe in it. Lovely.
Only to a clinical psychopath.
Or someone who is in self-denial to the emotional being they are.
Some people think it is strength to deny and try to suppress the emotional self.
What a vain waste of time, how openly pathetic is their false strength.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Because their imaginary friend says so.
*blasts Pisschrist by Fear Factory*
*blasts Pisschrist by Fear Factory*
On the grounds of what are Christians so sure they will go to heaven?
Most of them aren't sure.
St Paul, who originated the idea, said he would work out his salvation "with fear and trembling",
This was later the starting point for existentialism, which attracts both Christians and Atheists
Most Christians think it's a matter of how well they live, pray, and treat other people.
This will be judged by God, but not arbitrarily.
On the other hand, if you can rid yourself of all this philosophical doodah, and just be Saved, (Lawd be Praised Awmighty!) you can get on with the real business of life, which is shooting animals, growing rich, and hating Mexicans.
Most of them aren't sure.
St Paul, who originated the idea, said he would work out his salvation "with fear and trembling",
This was later the starting point for existentialism, which attracts both Christians and Atheists
Most Christians think it's a matter of how well they live, pray, and treat other people.
This will be judged by God, but not arbitrarily.
On the other hand, if you can rid yourself of all this philosophical doodah, and just be Saved, (Lawd be Praised Awmighty!) you can get on with the real business of life, which is shooting animals, growing rich, and hating Mexicans.
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M*W: Fact is, they just add more philosophical doodah to their minds to believe they are saved when there's no such thing, they fail to live life in a state of reality, and they deny everything that does not believe like they do. In reality, they're a sad lot, silly to look at, pathetic to be around, and end up in the same place the rest of us do, as worm food with no salvation whatsoever.
I don't think we are just wormfood.
When I've properly worked out why that isn't true, I'll come back and tell you.
I can't see the point in a religion which is just ticking the box.
Yes I'll go along with that.
A lot of it is just making the right connections, same as secular Judaism, Masonry etc
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You are right. I still talk to friends and family who still are Christian of course. But, it makes me sad at their outlook on things at times, it is really like they are in dispair, longing for God to come down and make things right. It didn't bother me before when I was a Christian. I remember they were more inspiring to me. But, it's like they are trapped in an intangible box at times. Like they have no choice but to accept fate. They've been taught to accept and endure trials. It is sad.
I remember those words from somewhere... oh yeah...
I see. So if my belief or disbelief in gravity is based on evidence rather than personal needs, I'm either a psychopath or I'm in self-denial.
Foolish weaklings! If you have an emotional need to be the king of Spain, then by golly it must be true that you are indeed the king!
All praise the physical laws Adstar will never, ever manage to violate.
We are not "emotional beings". We are spirits. We live in a body. We have a soul (mind, will, emotion). Getting into Heaven is easy. All you have to do is get "born again"* according to the Bible. It really is that simple. You don't work your way into Heaven and you don't go for being a good person. You go because once you are saved (born again) you are a child of God/Jesus, and Heaven is for His kids.
*or be a Jew. They are God's chosen.
*or be a Jew. They are God's chosen.
The bible verse your quoting doesn't mean what you think it does. it only refers to christ
I didn't quote a Bible verse.
you didn't have to. there is only on section of the bible that mentions being born again part of that be that which is born of the flesh is flesh. that which is born of the spirit is spirit. in other words to believe one can be "born again" in this life in the flesh goes against scripture and is heresy or blasphemy.
You go ahead and believe what you want and I'll believe what I want. Let's see how that works out for each of us. We could do a comparison now if you'd like.
it is not in the realm of the flesh but the realm of the spirit which will tell.
Ok, then let's start with that. I know that I know that I am going straight to Heaven when I die. There will be no stops along the way. I know because Jesus told me, and I believe EVERYTHING He says. How about you?