On the grounds of what are Christians so sure they will go to heaven?

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wynn

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Valued Senior Member
On the grounds of what are Christians so sure they will go to heaven?


sandy said:
He does, in His Word, The Bible. I DO know: that's one of the joys of Christianity. I know EXACTLY where I'm going. He told me so in His Word.
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Actually, I think many people, including myself, who wonder about the expresed certainty of some Christians who claim they will go to heaven has to do with something else, not with Jesus' promise, but with the Christian's own faith and actions.

Namely: How does a Christian know that they will go to Heaven - how do they know that they will never do anything that could disqualify them from that?
How do they know that nothing could ever happen that would shake their faith?
How are they so sure that their free will truly is so in line with God's that they will never again transgress God's law?


Because that "I know I will go to Heaven" does sound rather presumptuous.

When a person gets a job, they may certaintly think "I will never be fired, nothing could ever happen that would get me fired, I could never do anything that would get me fired."
But for all practical intents and purposes, there are many things that can happen or that a person could do to get themselves fired. And this does happen all the time.


Do Christians who claim they will go to heaven never suspect themselves to be less than perfect?
 
Signal said:
Namely: How does a Christian know that they will go to Heaven - how do they know that they will never do anything that could disqualify them from that?
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They don't. It is fear that drives them at first. Fear of losing their god because of themselves. As a christian grows, their confidence grows, and their faith in Jesus's promise.
There are two predominant interpretations to your question within Christianity: One is that once you are saved you will never be able to lose your ticket. The other interpretation is that you can lose your way, and lose your ticket, but always find it again as long as you stay the course.

I assume you are talking about the first interpretation. It's a flawed argument I never accepted when I was a Christian, but if you are not a Christian, you won't be able to follow the logic as it requires the acceptance of other precepts in the Bible.

Signal said:
How do they know that nothing could ever happen that would shake their faith?
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This is impossible, no one knows except their god. It says in the Bible that no one knows whose name is written in the book of life, not even angels. It also says that only Jesus keeps the list, and everyone on the list gets a pass.

Signal said:
Do Christians who claim they will go to heaven never suspect themselves to be less than perfect?
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That would be prideful, no one would admit to this. It says in the Bible that all fall short, so Christians do not ever believe they are perfect. Although they can be deceived into thinking they have more sway and more understanding than another, and that is one reason I lost my faith in God. Christians need to remember that many who are first will be last in heaven, or so it says in the Bible.
 
Signal said:
On the grounds of what are Christians so sure they will go to heaven?




Actually, I think many people, including myself, who wonder about the expresed certainty of some Christians who claim they will go to heaven has to do with something else, not with Jesus' promise, but with the Christian's own faith and actions.

Namely: How does a Christian know that they will go to Heaven - how do they know that they will never do anything that could disqualify them from that?
How do they know that nothing could ever happen that would shake their faith?
How are they so sure that their free will truly is so in line with God's that they will never again transgress God's law?


Because that "I know I will go to Heaven" does sound rather presumptuous.

When a person gets a job, they may certaintly think "I will never be fired, nothing could ever happen that would get me fired, I could never do anything that would get me fired."
But for all practical intents and purposes, there are many things that can happen or that a person could do to get themselves fired. And this does happen all the time.


Do Christians who claim they will go to heaven never suspect themselves to be less than perfect?
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i called her out on this in the said thread.. sandys response was nothing more than

i just do.. i have the same question and completely agree with the next poster goings along the lines of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee_KVA9x-GM
 
Signal said:
On the grounds of what are Christians so sure they will go to heaven?




Actually, I think many people, including myself, who wonder about the expresed certainty of some Christians who claim they will go to heaven has to do with something else, not with Jesus' promise, but with the Christian's own faith and actions.

Namely: How does a Christian know that they will go to Heaven - how do they know that they will never do anything that could disqualify them from that?
How do they know that nothing could ever happen that would shake their faith?
How are they so sure that their free will truly is so in line with God's that they will never again transgress God's law?


Because that "I know I will go to Heaven" does sound rather presumptuous.

When a person gets a job, they may certainly think "I will never be fired, nothing could ever happen that would get me fired, I could never do anything that would get me fired."
But for all practical intents and purposes, there are many things that can happen or that a person could do to get themselves fired. And this does happen all the time.


Do Christians who claim they will go to heaven never suspect themselves to be less than perfect?
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:) That’s the thing, one who believes Jesus knows they are going to have eternity with God even though they are Not perfect.

Now to exist with God in eternity requires one to be perfect. Followers of Jesus look forward to being Perfected By God upon the resurrection. Our eternity with God is a granted gift from God for those who believe in His will.

We can be confident we have eternity with God Because it is Not Something We have Achieved it is Gods deed. Therefore all glory and praise and honour is to God who has done this thing.

If one believes the Will of God then one believes in His Word about the Way He has deemed it necessary for mankind to enter into eternity with Him.

So we Followers of the Messiah Do not need to have confidence in ourselves. But we can have confidence in God who we believe in Perfect and can never fail.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
I'm going to Heaven because I have magic underwear. Do you have magic underwear? I thought not.

Anyway, isn't this thread almost exactly the same comparison? Christians believe generally that they will get into heaven, I would expect, and that their free will is in accordance thereof. They figure belief and good deeds (or belief alone if you're a Protestant, although it would seem difficult to be a believer without being a decent person, which may render the comparison null) will support their eternal persistence. Maybe they're right and maybe not. How can we ever know?
 
Adstar said:
:) That’s the thing, one who believes Jesus knows they are going to have eternity with God even though they are Not perfect.
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Does believing in Jesus take away your free will?

Does believing in Jesus at one point in time cause that you can never not believe in Jesus at some later point?


Now to exist with God in eternity requires one to be perfect. Followers of Jesus look forward to being Perfected By God upon the resurrection. Our eternity with God is a granted gift from God for those who believe in His will.
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By this reasoning, only those who believe in Him will go to heaven.
So it is the doing of those individuals that makes the difference.


We can be confident we have eternity with God Because it is Not Something We have Achieved it is Gods deed. Therefore all glory and praise and honour is to God who has done this thing.
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By that reasoning, everyone will be going to heaven, and there is no need to believe in Jesus.


So we Followers of the Messiah Do not need to have confidence in ourselves.
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It seems to me you do, though.
As long as a person has free will, it is up to them whether they will believe in God or not. But you seem to think that you are beyond that point of ever being able to change your mind about God. Which, to me, means you have enormous confidence in yourself.


But we can have confidence in God who we believe in Perfect and can never fail.
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Does believing in God once mean that you automatically lose the ability to ever again choose whether you believe in God or not?
 
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jayleew said:
This is impossible, no one knows except their god. It says in the Bible that no one knows whose name is written in the book of life, not even angels. It also says that only Jesus keeps the list, and everyone on the list gets a pass.
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Could you provide some Biblical references for this, please?
 
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Signal said:
Could you provide some Biblical references for this, please?
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Rev 13:8 and 21:27 specify that the book belongs to Jesus.

Mat 24:36 says no one knows when the end will come.

Rev 3:5 is the only instance where the Book of Life is modified, and it specifies that names are removed from it. It also specifies that only those that overcome shall remain in the book.

In order to overcome, you must have victory in life, so your name is not removed until you have failed to overcome.

So, because no one knows when the race is over, no one knows whose names will be in the book until it is opened in the end.

Rev 3:5 is the controversial verse that Christians debate eternal security.
 
Signal said:
Does believing in Jesus take away your free will?

Does believing in Jesus at one point in time cause that you can never not believe in Jesus at some later point?
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No. one can come to reject what they once embraced. I am not a once saved always saved/ calvinist doctrine believer.




By this reasoning, only those who believe in Him will go to heaven.
So it is the doing of those individuals that makes the difference.
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Nope it is Gods doing.

We are not saved by our acceptance Of His will.

We are saved because He wills those who accept His will to be saved. Our salvation is His doing. He has set it up for us. But we can accept or reject the gift.




By that reasoning, everyone will be going to heaven, and there is no need to believe in Jesus.
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Nope. Only those who are in a state of accepting His will can be confident.




It seems to me you do, though.
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I have confidence in Jesus. That may come across as confidence in myself. But i am not confident in myself. As scripture says when i am weak He is strong.



As long as a person has free will, it is up to them whether they will believe in God or not. But you seem to think that you are beyond that point of ever being able to change your mind about God. Which, to me, means you have enormous confidence in yourself.
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See you see my confidence as confidence in myself when it is not.

I believe that one can reject the gift of salvation. Scriptures tell me so. I myself could one day reject that Gift. For me One is either in a state of salvation if one is believing at that moment or one is in a state of condemnation if one is rejecting the gift at a particular moment. At the present moment i am saved, i believe Jesus. I trust in His atonement for me.

I can be confident because i do not need to have confidence in myself.




Does believing in God once mean that you automatically lose the ability to ever again choose whether you believe in God or not?
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No. As stated above i am not a O.S.A.S believer.

But one thing i must add. Many people come to reject "god". Now if they had a false view of the will of God (and many have had a false view of God) then to reject a false God is a good thing. It may lead to a time of atheism in their lives but that is understandable as the saying goes, "once bitten twice shy"
It is only when they reject the True will of God ( that is the true God) then they place themselves into a state of condemnation. Sometimes it take a while to figure out who has rejected what and who has accepted what.

From my own experience there are a lot of people who have rejected a false view of God and call themselves atheists, they are very bitter about their past experiences and it is very hard to reach them while they are still in that state. Sometimes it takes years for their anger to dissipate before they can once again consider God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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M*W: "Going to heaven" simply means those who believe this will be with the stars and constellations as gods when they die. It's astro-theological in meaning.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: "Going to heaven" simply means those who believe this will be with the stars and constellations as gods when they die. It's astro-theological in meaning.
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Probably not to most people. Meaning is determined by those who use a term.
 
On the grounds of what are Christians so sure they will go to heaven?
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Via a circular argument. It goes like this:

1. The bible is an infallible source that was written by God.
2. The bible reports Jesus as saying that belief in God could guarantee you a place in heaven (if I remember correctly).
3. This has been extended by the happy clappers to include belief in Jesus as one's personal saviour.
4. We know that the bible is infallible because it was written by God.
5. We know that God exists because the bible says he does, and the bible is infallible.
 
You don't think the bible was written by God, John?

Do you think it's infallible, then? Yes or no?
 
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