On salvation and condemnation, and God's love

[Tiassa]

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
  
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels .... (Matthew 25.40-41)

I'm thinking that we should do away with the notion of God's love; it's problematic to His authority, and thus the legitimacy of Christian faith.

And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men [it is] impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. (Mark 10.27)

But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. (Matthew 19.26)

Any Christian choosing to challenge my context on these two verses should do so; I do not feel I am stretching the context any more than has been done by those who have chosen Christian faith and argued concepts based on these verses in the past at Sciforums.

But the question arises when we consider religions other than Christianity which offer various forms of reincarnation amid their speculations: If all things are possible with God, then why does Hell exist at all?

Ideally, a loving parent would not condemn a child to death for merely breaking a rule and not understanding why the rule exists.

Ideally, the parent would attempt to explain the purpose behind the rule, and expect the child to understand the rule. Essentially, the child is given another chance to execute the rule properly.

So why, then, should there be Hell? If all things are possible with God, and if God loves His creations, then why not put them through the paces again--e.g. reincarnation? Why annhilate the soul?

1) God is incapable of fostering reincarnation--e.g. with God not quite all things are possible. There exists here no contradiction like the square circle.

2) God is unwilling to foster reincarnation--e.g. God's love equals abandonment of the project in disappointment.

We are not born knowing everything we need to know; this, too, should be possible with God. Again, God is either unable or unwilling to create this circumstance.

We are born into sin, necessitating an effort to achieve salvation and avoid the annhilation of the soul that comes when God withdraws--separates--from the sinner. Again, God is either unable or unwilling to change this circumstance.

But the ... uh ... infallible Bible notes that nothing is impossible with God. We may take this to mean, in the sense of the rich man, the camel, and the eye of the needle, to indicate that nothing--salvation included--is impossible when one has God on one's side, though history indicates either that this is untrue, or that of those Christians who create human detriment in the name of God, few actually have God on their side: had they the presence of God's favor, they would not be compelled toward human detriment.

If this is the case, then I have demonstrated the Christian detriment to humanity, and we the people of the world (yes, Christians included) must figure out what to do about it.

If, however, we look toward the omnipotence of God, we see two possible circumstances arising that invalidate fundamental portions of the evangelical human experience:

1) God is unwilling to fix the situation, which speaks much about His, uh, "love".

2) God is unable to fix the situation, which speaks much about the extent of His power amid creation.

We have a tradition in the United States that is best demonstrated by Jonathan Edwards' 18th century tantrum Sinners in the hands of an angry God. Whereas Lutherans and Catholics in my experience speak much of God's love, I have heard it asserted before by exceptionally conservative Christians that God is not a loving God; the living extension of Edwards' wrathful God still exists in American society at least.

So what's up with it? God could simply say, "Child, try it again, please, and keep these things in mind ...." Of course, He chooses not to, and prefers cast the soul into everlasting fire. C'est la vie.

So is God unable or unwilling to not cast one into everlasting fire as revenge for His Holy Disappointment in one's inability to accept the mania of Christian directive without occasionally wondering about the idiocy of some of it.

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[dan1123]

Sometimes acting in a loving way towards someone would be unjust. God's love must be matched with His justice. Heaven and hell, the first and second judgements, and the afterlife in general make to complete the justice lacking in the world around us.

If God kept giving people more chances, eventually everyone would be fed up with someone continuing to do horrible stuff and ask that God just do away with that person completely.

 

[Stretch]

But Dan ...

Your omnipotent God CREATED the world around us?
And which is foremost - justice or compassion?

Take care

 

[Tiassa]

Stretch--two cents

And which is foremost - justice or compassion?

In the ideal, they are one and the same. Justice among people is the manifestation of our larger compassion. Seriously, there is the empathy of It could happen to me, which actually is part of compassion, and the underlying fear that motivates justice: I must make a stand against this before it does happen to me.

In the case of murder, we feel for the victim and for the close relatives thereof because the idea of murder--specifically of being murdered--creates a fairly unique sensation in the brain. Of the idea of losing someone close to us to murder, we don't ever want to feel as badly as we perceive those grieving relatives to feel. Our empathy--and, in some cases, sympathy--kicks in, and our sense of justice comes from our desire to alleviate the symptoms of grief and to prevent the repitition of the tragedy. I would assert that justice is the social manifestation of our compassion--which, incidentally, is part of why I find warfare and capital punishment so seemingly absurd.

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[tony1]

Originally posted by tiassa
I'm thinking that we should do away with the notion of God's love; it's problematic to His authority, and thus the legitimacy of Christian faith.

It's tough love.
Can you imagine living forever with AIDS, syphilis, leprosy or even the common cold?
He's doing people a favor.

But the question arises when we consider religions other than Christianity which offer various forms of reincarnation amid their speculations: If all things are possible with God, then why does Hell exist at all?

We don't live in a religious shopping mall.
Reincarnation is a speculation.
Hell, being the grave, exists to store corpses.

Ideally, a loving parent would not condemn a child to death for merely breaking a rule and not understanding why the rule exists.
Ideally, the parent would attempt to explain the purpose behind the rule, and expect the child to understand the rule. Essentially, the child is given another chance to execute the rule properly.

The explanation for the rule is the Bible.
Understanding the rule is reading comprehension while reading the Bible.
Faith is your second chance.

So why, then, should there be Hell? If all things are possible with God, and if God loves His creations, then why not put them through the paces again--e.g. reincarnation? Why annhilate the soul?

Reincarnation would be a waste of time.
If you don't remember your past life, you learn nothing.
If you do remember your past life, you learn how to fix how you got caught the last time.

Annihilating the soul is a favor to all concerned.
Anything else is tantamount to eternal torture.

1) God is incapable of fostering reincarnation...

No he isn't.
Look at how many demons get reincarnated.
That is where the reincarnation thing comes from anyway.
A demon possesses a person, the person dies, the demon possesses someone else.
Someone channels the demon and the demon describes how easy death is, and how it is just a doorway to another life.
That is reincarnation in reality.

2) God is unwilling to foster reincarnation...

See above.

We are not born knowing everything we need to know; this, too, should be possible with God. Again, God is either unable or unwilling to create this circumstance.

What are you talking about?
A newborn babe knows enough to live an entire lifetime.
An old man on his deathbed doesn't know enough to live another ten minutes.

We are born into sin, necessitating an effort to achieve salvation

Earlier you were complaining about NOT getting a second chance.
Now you're complaining that you DO get a second chance.
Make up your mind.

and avoid the annhilation of the soul that comes when God withdraws--separates--from the sinner. Again, God is either unable or unwilling to change this circumstance.

Salvation is free, which shows that God is able AND willing to change the circumstance.

... Christians who create human detriment in the name of God, few actually have God on their side: had they the presence of God's favor, they would not be compelled toward human detriment.

Of course, the 1700 years of Catholic propaganda muddies the waters.

If this is the case, then I have demonstrated the Christian detriment to humanity,

Well, the Catholic detriment, anyway.

and we the people of the world (yes, Christians included) must figure out what to do about it.

Done.
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
(1 Corinthians 1:21, KJV).

Whereas Lutherans and Catholics in my experience speak much of God's love,

They have to.
Nobody would buy their story if they didn't.

God could simply say, "Child, try it again, please, and keep these things in mind ...." Of course, He chooses not to, and prefers cast the soul into everlasting fire. C'est la vie.

Of course, he DOES choose to.
But if you still don't get it, that is a problem.
Can you imagine someone vacillating for all eternity?
It's bad enough when someone does it for 15 minutes.
Eternal fire. C'est la mort.

So is God unable or unwilling to not cast one into everlasting fire as revenge for His Holy Disappointment in one's inability to accept the mania of Christian directive without occasionally wondering about the idiocy of some of it.

He doesn't have to wonder.
He knows about the idiocy, or foolishness, of it...

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
(Psalms 14:1, KJV).

 

[Tiassa]

More of your silliness

Tony1--

Can you imagine living forever with AIDS, syphilis, leprosy or even the common cold?
He's doing people a favor.

I feel the need to quote a song penned by (I believe) Todd Menton, and performed by the Minneapolis group Boiled in Lead. From Microorganism: a Plague Song:

God is good, God is great
God's a big invertebrate.
God made the river change its route
But He won't pull the microorganism out ...

Since the microorganism is His creation and His will, we can only wonder at the method of His madness. God works in mysterious ways, indeed.

We don't live in a religious shopping mall.
Reincarnation is a speculation.
Hell, being the grave, exists to store corpses.

That's just more of your desperate faith. The question at hand is why God chooses the method He does. If the soul is eternal, it has characteristics which are either fixed or can evolve. Since the soul is God's creation and God's will, we might wonder at the method of His madness.

The explanation for the rule is the Bible.
Understanding the rule is reading comprehension while reading the Bible.
Faith is your second chance.

Since we are born into sin, and thus require faith in the Bible to transcend that condition, we might wonder why God set it up that way, and also why He wrote the rules that way. God works in mysterious ways, indeed; one wonders if there is a method to His madness, and it does appear that a sense of sadism is part of that madness.

Reincarnation would be a waste of time.
If you don't remember your past life, you learn nothing.
If you do remember your past life, you learn how to fix how you got caught the last time.

If the soul is constructed of purely fixed characteristics, this is by God's will, and again, we wonder why. If there is a method to His madness, it seems to foster the necessity of destroying souls.

Annihilating the soul is a favor to all concerned.
Anything else is tantamount to eternal torture.

That reincarnation would equal eternal torture only comes about if the soul is constructed of purely fixed characteristics, with no ability to evolve; this indicates a measure of predestination, as well, since the nature of the soul at the time of your birth into sin is determined by God's will. One wonders if there is a reason that God created the soul this way, and must necessarily wonder if there is a method to His madness. It seems, based on your responses, that the God you are advocating is either lazy or intentionally cruel. But at least we see your perception of God's compassion: annihilation is the only way to be compassionate.

No he isn't.
Look at how many demons get reincarnated.
That is where the reincarnation thing comes from anyway.
A demon possesses a person, the person dies, the demon possesses someone else.
Someone channels the demon and the demon describes how easy death is, and how it is just a doorway to another life.
That is reincarnation in reality.

Now that's just silliness. Not only in your assertions of demons, but if God allows demons to reincarnate, we must wonder why He denies it of those he allegedly loves. One wonders if there is a method to His madness.

See above.

And I might note the same, but since it's becoming a litany: We might wonder at the method of His madness.

What are you talking about?
A newborn babe knows enough to live an entire lifetime.
An old man on his deathbed doesn't know enough to live another ten minutes.

Now that's beyond silly. That's idiocy. I mean, really, what do you believe will happen if you take a newborn and leave it naked on a mountainside? I would posit that without assistance from another living creature, the newborn will die. The history of Sparta lends strong evidence to this assertion, and the modern case of babies being left in dumpsters or Disneyland bathrooms indicates that the newborns need other people's assistance to survive. That's some real capable knowledge. Besides, that infant's soul would be annihilated, as it has not time to learn how to repent its naturally sinful state that is God's will in the first place. Your assertion here is ridiculous, Tony.

Salvation is free, which shows that God is able AND willing to change the circumstance.

So one born into a naturally sinful state--according to God's will--need do nothing to earn salvation? I guess we should just be leaving those newborns out on the mountainside; it gives them the best shot of not being condemned to the grave.

Of course, the 1700 years of Catholic propaganda muddies the waters.

Well, the Catholic detriment, anyway.

More of your anti-Catholic hatred? How does your hatred affect your salvation? Oh, that's right, it doesn't, because you can be as hateful as you want and your salvation's free.

You know, you've asserted in the past I'm going to the grave and not being redeemed; if salvation is free, then you're wrong about that. After all, it's free, and I need do nothing to earn it.

and we the people of the world (yes, Christians included) must figure out what to do about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Done.
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
(1 Corinthians 1:21, KJV).

You know, the problem with the way you split up your citations in order to foster your irrelevant and anemic zingers demonstrates that you have no clue as to what those words you cite mean. Do better, Tony.

They have to.
Nobody would buy their story if they didn't.

Again you split a citation to get some more anti-Catholicism in there (and even a jab at the Lutherans, too). Do better, Tony.

Of course, he DOES choose to.
But if you still don't get it, that is a problem.
Can you imagine someone vacillating for all eternity?
It's bad enough when someone does it for 15 minutes.
Eternal fire. C'est la mort.

Again we see your resistance to the idea of learning, and your impatience with people. As to God's choice to annihilate, well ...? We wonder at the method of His madness.

He doesn't have to wonder.
He knows about the idiocy, or foolishness, of it...

That's almost my fault for the bad punctuation. Put a question mark on the citation you're responding to, and try again. Although, we're not expecting much. But otherwise, you're doing a marvelous job of demonstrating the fraud that you worship.

thanx much,
Tiassa

 

[wet1]

Tony 1 again with his bible in his hand!!

Tony 1, f**k of with your bible quotes.

I am getting enough of you. Everywhere I come, I see your 'holy'writing again. You say devils do reincarnate but we people don't....
Man, are you crazy, of course we reincarnate. Every new life we live we learn new things. You don't forget everything you did in a lifetime...
Every new life you get you learn more, and there is no god and heaven and hell.....
It should be crazy if everyone who does something wrong goes straight to hell. Don't you have an own mind to think with???
You always quote the bible...

Now I have a quote for you:
"We stood before it
And began to freeze
inside, from the exertion
We questioned the painting,
berated it, made love to it,
prayed to it:
"We called it mother,
called it whore and slut,
called it our beloved
called it: ABRAXAS...!!"

And this is a quote from Abraxas, by Herman Hesse, a German who understood more then you do.
I am very sorry to say so, but I've had enough of Tony's bible quotes.
I see them in more threads and I have more then my share of bible quotations. For the rest of my life...!!!

 

[Tiassa]

Banshee

Given that we're discussing Christian-derived ideas, we can expect a fair amount of Bible quotes. But, yes, I do agree that Tony1's rampant abuse of his claimed Holy Book is sickening.

Seriously, just think of it like this: He's doing nothing but blaspheming and reinforcing what we already know about the negative effects of Christian faith. The best he can do is discredit his God, his Bible, his religion, and his faith.

That Tony1 is mean-spirited, narrow-minded, and without human empathy is no surprise to some of us. Sure, it's a ridiculous demonstration he's making, and yes, some of us would love to have a serious discussion without his brand of interruption, but look at the cowardice his faith inspires: He is afraid that people will learn and thus transcend the insecurities that compel them to abuse themselves on behalf of the God of the Bible. The less effective Christianity is, the better it is for humanity.

I'd recommend that, if nothing else, you enjoy the damage he's doing to the power of Christianity to continue to work toward the end of the world.

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[wet1]

Thank you Tiassa!

Thank you for your reply.
I really am a dummy to get mad about Tony, everytime I meet him on a thread with his bible

But how you explained it, it was very clear to me and you are right, I just have to ignore him and just go on with the good discussion that's going on in this thread
Thank you for 'tempering' my madness, You gave me whole new point to look at Tony and how to handle with him.

Hope to talk to you later....

 

[Deadwood]

So one born into a naturally sinful state--according to God's will--need do nothing to earn salvation?

This is true Tiassa, you've hit the mark. People can do nothing to earn their salvation.

Ephesians ch 2 vs 8,9

8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9
not by works, so that no one can boast.


More on the next quote.

if salvation is free, then you're wrong about that. After all, it's free, and I need do nothing to earn it.

Yes, you can do nothing to earn salvation. But you do have to accept God's gift of salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God, therefore, you can either reject this gift or you can accept His gift. If someone offers you a brand new car, you can either choose to accept the car or reject it. The person who wants you to have the car would be absolutely delighted for you to have it, but if you reject the car, it could be called foolishness.

Tiassa, why do you want to be reincarnated to have another chance when you could be saved now?

Banshee, I personally don't see a problem with quoting the bible. Its not that we don't have our own mind but think it is better to write wisdom and knowledge that is of God, rather than our own wisdom and knowledge. Please don't be angry but understand that everyone quotes people. We even quote each other in this fourum.

Oh yes, and also, if you don't remember your past life then how do you learn from them?

Thanks.

 

[wet1]

You learn from your past live, always, but you don't remember living that life.......
A little difficult maybe but logical too. You take with you what you've learned, so you can use it in a new life.....if you do, you really are getting to know what life's about

If you can only quote from a book which may not be studied on reality by the church, I wonder.....
Why is the church so very afraid of people who are only looking for the truth

But if you feel happy with it, you have to do so.
Do whatever you think is right, but it has not be the truth....
I think the bible is a book with beautiful, cruel story's and we can look at it as a book of symbols.
But it is your good right to think it's true....

And if there are people who don't believe in the bible's words, you have to respect them either...
It is our good right not to believe in the bible.....okay??

 

[tony1]

Originally posted by tiassa
If the soul is eternal, it has characteristics which are either fixed or can evolve.*
Big "if," since it isn't eternal.

* if the soul is constructed of purely fixed characteristics,*
It's constructed of dirt and spirit.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Genesis 2:7, KJV).

*Not only in your assertions of demons, but if God allows demons to reincarnate, we must wonder why He denies it of those he allegedly loves.*
Seeing as the theory of reincarnation comes from demons who only repeatedly "incarnate," your point is moot.

*I mean, really, what do you believe will happen if you take a newborn and leave it naked on a mountainside? I would posit that without assistance from another living creature, the newborn will die.*
I would posit that if we left you naked on a mountainside, you would die.
So, what's your point?

*So one born into a naturally sinful state...need do nothing to earn salvation?*
Correct.
There is nothing you can do to earn salvation.

To address the inevitable, believing is not doing.

*More of your anti-Catholic hatred?*
No, more of my highlighting your misdirection.

*You know, you've asserted in the past I'm going to the grave*
You are planning to be cremated?
When I say you're going to the grave, that includes urns, the sea, etc.

* and not being redeemed; if salvation is free, then you're wrong about that.*
Wrong about what? the grave? you're not being redeemed? salvation?

*After all, it's free, and I need do nothing to earn it.*
Again, believing is not doing.

*split up your citations
...
split a citation *
What? Is this a new world problem?

*Put a question mark on the citation you're responding to, and try again.*
Doesn't your keyboard work?

Originally posted by Banshee
Tony 1, f**k of with your bible quotes.:mad*
I'm sensing a certain irritation.

* say devils do reincarnate but we people don't....*
Actually, devils merely repeatedly incarnate.

Since devils don't die, when the people they possess do, they can simply tell a tale of reincarnation that is believable, with proof, too.
They can give the details of their "past" lives with great accuracy.
Of course, being the consummate liars they are, they simply leave out a couple of details, like who they're talking about.

*You don't forget everything you did in a lifetime...:*
So, tell me something you remember.
I'm writing to the person, not the demon, now, mind you.

*It should be crazy if everyone who does something wrong goes straight to hell.*
Well, it would be.
People who die got straight to hell, except for the detour through the morgue.

It might be a linguistic thing, but hell is the grave.
Thanks to the Catholics, an awful lot of people think it is a permanent underground torture chamber with some fire and a lot of questions in it.
Questions like, "what kind of fire is this? It burns but nothing gets consumed."
Or, "Death was supposed to be death, but it turns out it is some kind of life in an underground oven. Why did the dictionary lie to me?"
Or, "Why do sinners get eternal life in an underground oven, when only believers get eternal life?"

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Romans 6:23, KJV).

*Don't you have an own mind to think with???
You always quote the bible...:confused*
Sure, I use it to study the Bible.

*And this is a quote from Abraxas, by Herman Hesse, a German who understood more then you do.*
Well, thanks?
What is the point in that quote?
I guess HH DOES understand more than I do, because I have no clue as to what he was saying.

*Originally posted by tiassa
He is afraid that people will learn*
What a thought!
You're afraid to learn that your foray into satanism got you your goddess, and that your goddess is a demon in a tailor-made disguise.

*Originally posted by Banshee
You gave me whole new point to look at Tony and how to handle with him. *
Since you like quotes from songs, here's one...
"You ain't seen nothing yet."

*You learn from your past live, always, but you don't remember living that life.......
A little difficult maybe but logical too.*
Logical for demons, since they outlive you.
Perhaps you don't understand that learning is very closely related to memory.
If you learn something, but don't remember it, it doesn't do you any good.

*Why is the church so very afraid of people who are only looking for the truth*
The church has the truth...

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
(1 Timothy 3:15, KJV).

*And if there are people who don't believe in the bible's words, you have to respect them either.*
No, I don't.
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
(James 2:1, KJV).

*It is our good right not to believe in the bible*
Well, it is something you choose.

 

[wet1]

Tony, there's an answer for you on some other thread you poison with your bible. Since you are so good with your bible, look up in which thread the answer is........

I certainly won't tell you, for you seem to know everything....
Bye Tony 1.
What's the 1 for, are you gods left hand??

 

[Tiassa]

Snake Oil!

Deadwood--

This is true Tiassa, you've hit the mark. People can do nothing to earn their salvation.

Ephesians ch 2 vs 8,9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

So ... faith is nothing? Without free-will, one does not choose faith, but if one chooses faith--that is, chooses to accept as true without consideration that which the Bible instructs--one has done nothing? Free-will choice equals nothing?

Yes, you can do nothing to earn salvation. But you do have to accept God's gift of salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God, therefore, you can either reject this gift or you can accept His gift.

Aaah ... the catch. This is a matter of rhetoric. Here, this is my gift to you, given free of strings ... all I ask in return is that you do this, or else you don't get the gift. It's all in what one calls a gift; in our history with indigenous tribes, reservations were considered gifts. Here, take this land, our gift to you, free of strings ... all we ask is that you get out of where you are now or else we're going to shoot you dead.

If someone offers you a brand new car, you can either choose to accept the car or reject it. The person who wants you to have the car would be absolutely delighted for you to have it, but if you reject the car, it could be called foolishness.

And I can get eleven of my favorite rock and roll albums for FREE (and all I have to do is pay the shipping, and agree to buy five more albums at regular price, and pay for the shipping on those. Free equals quite a bit.)

And that, in fairly naked form, is what's wrong with this "gift" you are describing. I cannot accept the gift, receive its benefit, and remain who I am today, or on the path I've chosen; in order to accept this "free gift", I must reject certain of my values, adopt new ones, and, well, sacrifice my intellect utterly, and it all must be a conscious choice. Frankly, it doesn't equal free to me. It sounds like one of those silly cd-club offers.

Tiassa, why do you want to be reincarnated to have another chance when you could be saved now?

Actually, who says I want to? It is, however, a tantalizing offer. Imagine maximizing both pleasure and efficacy in life: that would take a long time and allow for myriad effects on the soul. And don't tell me the soul's fixed, because that begs the question: why so? Why would God invent a Universe in which exists a certain sense called love, which is good, but does not equal out consistently: God, in love, could provide alternatives for the failing than annihilation. But God chooses, apparently, not to. It sounds like the archetypal love of inexpressive parenting, where love is earned and not freely given.

The question of reincarnation is merely an alternative than the loving destruction in store for those who fail to perform the acts required to accept the "free" gift. The reasons offered me and subject to the considerations of the changed being of me that I have experienced in my lifetime do not merit faith in this God, who chooses in His Infinite Possibility to employ a theory which reflects so negatively in the living experience.

And I wanted two cents in on the following, which you addressed to Banshee:

Banshee, I personally don't see a problem with quoting the bible. Its not that we don't have our own mind but think it is better to write wisdom and knowledge that is of God, rather than our own wisdom and knowledge. Please don't be angry but understand that everyone quotes people. We even quote each other in this fourum.

I think it's not so much Bible quotes per se, but rather that certain posters have the tendency to waste people's time splitting phrases in half in order to split out a fragment of a passage from the Bible instead of actually addressing the issues at hand. Pointless Bible citations merely make the more legitimate and necessary citations seem empty. In the case infuriating Banshee, I tend to agree; what it presents is a couple of perceptive options: either the misquoting of Bible phrases in response to misquoted sentence fragments embarrasses other Christians into not saying anything and just keeping one hand over their mouth while they smile as they read ... or else Christianity should be embarrassed because nobody notices what the poster does and shares the smugness from botched quote to botched quote. Either way it's pathetic, and distracting, and useless. Sure I can exploit it toward the idea of, This is your brain on Jesus, but every once in a while you wish the guy would prove you wrong and write something halfway intelligent for a change.

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[tony1]

*Originally posted by Banshee
Tony 1.
What's the 1 for, are you gods left hand??*

No, it is the number between 0 and 2.
It comes in handy for situations where there is only one of something.

 

[tony1]

Re: Snake Oil!

*Originally posted by tiassa
faith is nothing? Without free-will, one does not choose faith, but if one chooses faith--that is, chooses to accept as true without consideration that which the Bible instructs--one has done nothing?[ Free-will choice equals nothing?*
Spurious argument.
Believing is not doing.

*Here, this is my gift to you, given free of strings ... all I ask in return is that you do this, or else you don't get the gift.*
You're on a roll today, tiassa!
More vacuous argument.

A gift impies receipt of a gift.
Give and receive go together.
Your argument goes like this, "If I have to receive a gift, then it isn't really a gift."
Are you nuts?

*The question of reincarnation is merely an alternative...*

Actually, it is merely death.
You don't get to choose reincarnation.

Your choices are life and death.
Imagining that you can create your own "alternatives" is death.

*Pointless Bible citations*
No such thing.

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
(Isaiah 55:11, KJV).

*infuriating Banshee*
Oh no, an infuriated demon.
Is there any other kind?

Of, course, tiassa, what you present is "This is your brain on Satan."

Seeing the goddess.
Visiting psychiatrists.
Psychiatrists failing to fix the problem.
Trouble sleeping.
Fungus infections.
Eye problems.

Why, you are a walking bundle of good news.
I can't imagine why everyone isn't a satanist or a pagan.

 

[Tiassa]

Well at least we know what it's worth, Tony1

I never said I recommend the way I am; it's me. And the simple fact that you somehow find any of that list unusual to human beings demonstrates exactly how devoid of human empathy one is when one cannot picture anything but themselves. If being Christian is being like you, Tony1, we can all breathe reassured that soon enough, your faith will be extinct for simple lack of followers. Who would want to reduce themselves to what you've become?

Your lack of anything worthwhile to say is utterly stunning: is this really what the Bible has reduced you to? Absolutely ignorant mudslinging encouraged by the empowerment of believing your Daddy can kick everyone else's mommies' butts into dust?

My challenge stands, Tony1: Do better than worthless, vengeful crapshooting. We Dare You.

--Tiassa

 

[tony1]

*Originally posted by tiassa
I never said I recommend the way I am; it's me.*
I can't argue with that.
I'm just thinking that you might want something better.

*And the simple fact that you somehow find any of that list unusual to human beings...*
Well, the thing about the psychiatrists is a little unusual, although I have to admit psychiatrists would like to change that.

The fact that you consider visiting psychiatrists not the slightest bit unusual speaks volumes about you, though.

The point is that you reject good news, yet the news you have is very bad.

In any case, you haven't explained how receiving a gift is such hard work, though.
You also haven't explained how the incredible amount of labor involved in receiving a gift somehow nullifies the gift.

 

[wet1]

GOOD WORK, TIASSA!!!

Hi Tony, I came back, especially for your amusement.
Do you like it already???

Like the seasons in Nature, they always come back after a while if you didn't notice, go on in a circle like spring, summer, autumn and winter and then spring again and summer and so on.
You still follow me?? Or is this too difficult for you to understand.
I will try to explain, for all you christians, are destroying Earth with your useless religious wars.
Not all christians, the maniac's.
And that's written in your bible??? All these wars, which in fact all go about the same god, except the rules. Rules for catholics, rules for protestants and so on.......Even allah, from the moslims is based on your god, with, again, other rules and another name.

Everybody reincarnates. You do, and I think that's for the best so you can come back and try to live your life different this time.
Tony, this is difficult for me in english, which shall be a proof of being a devil again, I don't care.......
On Earth you have to learn the true meaning of your being here, not to spread some words from another, long gone writer.
When you 'die' you only put of your human body, which you needed here on Earth.
Your Deeper Self, or soul if you prefer that, goes back to our 'home-front', sorry, don't know another word, but this is a good word I guess.
Your Deeper Self stay's part of you, through all your lives, your Deeper Self stay's the same.
This Deeper Self knows and remembers what you need to know when you're back on Earth again. If you listen closely enough to what your Deeper Self tells you, you know exactly what to do and how to react. Stay closer to Nature and listen and look, but look and listen with your heart, not your brain-washed mind, you'll find and see why it is we are here on Earth.
And we certainly have no right to destroy Earth like this.

I can go on, but I don't think you take me serious, better try it sometime.........
You never know.
Maybe there's a real Tony inside of you..........

 

[tony1]

Re: GOOD WORK, TIASSA!!! Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good

*Originally posted by Banshee
Hi Tony, I came back, especially for your amusement.*

I'm amused.

*Like the seasons in Nature, they always come back after a while if you didn't notice, go on in a circle like spring, summer, autumn and winter and then spring again and summer and so on.*

There you go quoting the Bible again...

While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
(Genesis 8:22, KJV).

* will try to explain, for all you christians, are destroying Earth with your useless religious wars.*

What religious war are you referring to?

*Tony, this is difficult for me in english, which shall be a proof of being a devil again, I don't care.......*

Difficulty in English is not proof of devils.

In any case...

Want alzo lief heeft God de wereld gehad, dat Hij Zijn eniggeboren Zoon gegeven heeft, opdat een iegelijk die in Hem gelooft, niet verderve, maar het eeuwige leven hebbe.
Want God heeft Zijn Zoon niet gezonden in de wereld, opdat Hij de wereld veroordelen zou, maar opdat de wereld door Hem zou behouden worden.
Die in Hem gelooft, wordt niet veroordeeld, maar die niet gelooft, is alrede veroordeeld, dewijl hij niet heeft geloofd in den Naam des eniggeboren Zoons van God.
(Johannes 3:16-18, Staatsvertaling).

*Your Deeper Self, or soul if you prefer that, goes back to our 'home-front', sorry, don't know another word, but this is a good word I guess.*

Oh, the word is fine.
It is that other word "our" that attracts my attention.

You don't have a mouse in your pocket, so that means there is only one person typing.
However, I know who "our" refers to.

*Your Deeper Self stay's part of you, through all your lives, your Deeper Self stay's the same. *

That "Deeper Self" is the demon possessing you.

*This Deeper Self knows and remembers what you need to know when you're back on Earth again. If you listen closely enough to what your Deeper Self tells you, you know exactly what to do and how to react. Stay closer to Nature and listen and look, but look and listen with your heart, not your brain-washed mind, you'll find and see why it is we are here on Earth.
And we certainly have no right to destroy Earth like this.*

As "you" know, the earth will be destroyed by fire.
Then all you "deeper selves" will be destroyed with it.

Maar de dag des Heeren zal komen als een dief in den nacht, in welken de hemelen met een gedruis zullen voorbijgaan, en de elementen branden zullen en vergaan, en de aarde en de werken, die daarin zijn, zullen verbranden.
(2 Petrus 3:10, Staatsvertaling).

*I can go on, but I don't think you take me serious, better try it sometime.........*

Well, Banshee, you have a choice.
Those deeper selves will kill you the first chance they get, but they haven't done it yet.
Choose life.

Ik neem heden tegen ulieden tot getuigen den hemel en de aarde; het leven en den dood heb ik u voorgesteld, den zegen en den vloek! Kiest dan het leven, opdat gij levet, gij en uw zaad;
(Deuteronomium 30:19, Staatsvertaling).

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
(Deuteronomy 30:19, KJV).