On God & Coffee

M

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
Does God know exactly what coffee I will drink next Thursday?

Suppose that God could KNOW that next Thursday I will have:
- 123.2134 ml of coffee with
- 5763 grains of sugar and
- 23.64548 ml of milk and
love it, even though I hate sugar with coffee and am a bit lactose intolerant.... because God knows I will have this exact coffee – then; will I?

Is there any way NOT to have that particular coffee, even if God KNOWS that I will?
 
Arrrggghhh! The circularities! The absurdity! The universe spiralling into an oblivion of logic and anti-logic like a swirl of milk in a cup of coffee... Poof!
 
hehe, nice post SL.

basically, if someone (god or anyone else) knows (not suspects, or guesses) then you must. your question is basically "I must do A, but will I do A?" of course you will do A in your argument, you defined that you must do A within that same argument.
 
If God knows it, then that is because you choose it. Since you choose it, then you will not choose to do otherwise. Alternate possible worlds will always exist, but because God knows it, we know that you choose it. Hence, since you choose it, you do not choose not to do it. The answer is that yes, you choose to do it. No, you do not choose to not do it. It isn't because God knows it, it's because you choose it. God's knowledge is only a result of your choice, not the other way around.
 
We are creatures that are in space and time, whereas God is not in space, and he is outside of time.

Now...if you think of him looking at the events of the world all in the same instance...you can see that his knowing it doesn't make it pre-determined...it just makes tomorrows events the same as today's...and you really are making the decision, he just views it...doesn't determine it, necessarily.

Anyway...there is no God....so...

Pfft.
 
beyondtimeandspace said:
If God knows it, then that is because you choose it. Since you choose it, then you will not choose to do otherwise. Alternate possible worlds will always exist, but because God knows it, we know that you choose it. Hence, since you choose it, you do not choose not to do it. The answer is that yes, you choose to do it. No, you do not choose to not do it. It isn't because God knows it, it's because you choose it. God's knowledge is only a result of your choice, not the other way around.
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So accordingly, if at the present (that is right now) God knows that I will "choose" the sugar+milk-coffee. If we agree that at this moment (this moment for me) God knows that I will choose that exact coffee - do I have any other choice, other than to do what God knows I will do?

That is, if God knows that I WILL "choose" that particular coffee on that particular day, are there ANY other choices that I can possibily make that will lead to another outcome?
 
beyondtimeandspace said:
If God knows it, then that is because you choose it. Since you choose it, then you will not choose to do otherwise. Alternate possible worlds will always exist, but because God knows it, we know that you choose it. Hence, since you choose it, you do not choose not to do it. The answer is that yes, you choose to do it. No, you do not choose to not do it. It isn't because God knows it, it's because you choose it. God's knowledge is only a result of your choice, not the other way around.
Click to expand...
Also, this appears to suggest that I can change God in some way? By making “choices”, am I changing Gods knowledge?

You say Gods knowledge is because of me. That suggests that I am directly altering Gods knowledge? Is this what you mean when you say: God's knowledge is only a result of your choice, not the other way around.

Consequently, I determine Gods knowledge.
 
There are always possible choices that differ from the ones you make. What's important is that you make the choices that you do.

No, you do not alter God, God is immutable. God's knowledge of your actions is determined by your actions. However, God is eternal, and knows your choices eternally, thus does not change on account of your choices.
 
no offense, but you are an idiot =]

you don't seem to understand your own argument. if I say "A must happen", then say "will A happen?." i have already answered the question. this is a pointless thread. if anyone, me for example, somehow knew beyond any doubt that you would drink a certain coffee, then you must, otherwise I didn't really know it. by saying that someone, god or anyone else, knows that an even must happen, then the even must happen. I don't understand whats so hard to get about this concept. you can't know something without it being certain, otherwise you are just mistaken.
 
Michael said:
Does God know exactly what coffee I will drink next Thursday?

Suppose that God could KNOW that next Thursday I will have:
- 123.2134 ml of coffee with
- 5763 grains of sugar and
- 23.64548 ml of milk and
love it, even though I hate sugar with coffee and am a bit lactose intolerant.... because God knows I will have this exact coffee – then; will I?

Is there any way NOT to have that particular coffee, even if God KNOWS that I will?
Click to expand...

You make the choice, He just knows what your choice will be before you do, because "there's no time there"...which is something He said to me once...regarding the spiritual realm or where ever He is. As far as I know, He's not a big fan of sugar, and he would never want you to be "uncomfortable", but if, for some crazy reason, you got some hair up your ass about trying your coffee a new way, He would know about it before you did. He would have known about it forever.
 
if god knows, then it is not your decision, it is predetermined. there is no way around it, if god knows it, it will surely happen (if anyone knows it for that matter). there is no way around it, even if god is "outside" time, it will still be predetermined, if god knows it before it happens, then you are defining god inside time.
 
Lori_7 said:
You make the choice, He just knows what your choice will be before you do, because "there's no time there"...which is something He said to me once...regarding the spiritual realm or where ever He is. As far as I know, He's not a big fan of sugar, and he would never want you to be "uncomfortable", but if, for some crazy reason, you got some hair up your ass about trying your coffee a new way, He would know about it before you did. He would have known about it forever.
Click to expand...

There is no way for God to have "known about it forever" if it is true that "there's no time there". You have an internal contradiction.
 
beyondtimeandspace said:
God is eternal, and knows your choices eternally, thus does not change on account of your choices.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that God knows every single choice I will make?

Is there anything I can do to change what God already knows will happen?
 
I know, because I'm speaking from my perspective. Sorry...can't really fathom "no time".
 
Michael said:
Are you saying that God knows every single choice I will make?

Is there anything I can do to change what God already knows will happen?
Click to expand...

Are you looking to "dupe" God or what? lol

There's nothing you can do. Do whatever you want! He'll still know what you'll do before you will. You don't have the knowledge that He does...you can't predict the future...not even your own.
 
there r two opinions..

1. God let you do whatever you want... and you'll get your punishment or reward for doing that.. dunno in the next life or soon.. He just help you with His plans..

2. Me, you, and the rest of living creature walking in this earth are just puppets.. He arrange all of our movement..

as for me... i choose number one.. cuz there's heaven and hell... if we are puppets then i feel sorry for those who goes to hell..
 
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