No Way Out?

superluminal

superluminal

I am MalcomR
Valued Senior Member
This is for theists. A simple question.

1) Are we all, as god's creations, part of an intricate plan in which each of us has a role or purpose if you will?

That's all.

Can I get the theists here to give a short answer to this simple but profound question?
 
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Clarify the question. Are you assuming that all humans are "god's children"? If so, please identify where you got that assumption? Just curious.
 
superluminal said:
This is for theists. A simple question.

1) Are we all, as god's creations, part of an intricate plan in which each of us has a role or purpose if you will?

That's all.

Can I get the theists here to give a short answer to this simple but profound question?
Click to expand...

Much better, superluminal. And the short answer is 'Yes'.
 
Humans are the creation of Jesus with a purpose under Jesus according to the plan of Jesus.

It is never Jesus will for a person to be sick and persecuted. It is the will of Jesus for you to be a prosperous and happy individual.
 
Cool,

So your answer is 'yes'? No need to second guess. All I'm looking for is a simple answer.

And by Jesus you mean god, right? As in Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Right?
 
Maybe it's the fumes wafting up from your "special" incense burner?

(like the one I have on my desk...)
 
Superluminal,

I used to ask myself, why is it that the Creator has so much love for
us human beings. Why?? Why are we so Dear to Him?? Why does HE even Care for us when we rebel and sin?

As I slowly progressed in The Truth, the answer came to me. But the amazing
thing is that I did not get the answer through my mental deductions - No-,
rather I FELT the answer.

"THE CREATOR BELIEVED IN ME MORE THEN I BELIEVED IN MY SELF". This
revelation was so shocking that it scared me - because I was going - '
But I am a Sinner and I am weak' - in that moment I realized the significance
of " Disciple Peter walking on Water with the Messiah" - The journey will be
rough, but from that moment on, it would not be me setting me up to
fall, rather it would be 'the world' and all the temptations that come with
it.

In the midst of all these I realized that I must be like my Brother - Disciple Peter - Just keep on looking straight at The Messiah - and my way shall always be CLEAR.

' who is worthy to read the scroll? ' - you know, almost no one wanted to,
in that second Humanity was lost forever, but 'a lamb' came up to The
Creator, the sight of the "lamb" caused great Rejoicing in the heavens, because no one, I repeat - no one - was humble enough, was willing to fight for what he knew had broken his Father's heart, -- when Adam "fell" in the garden of Eden!!!

What The Creator has in store for faithful Christians like me, is beyond description - no , no one person is special, - but to be near the Presence of The Almighty is enough for me!!











:) :)
 
SL,

Yes, there is a plan, and no, I don't know what it is. I do know that it at the very least involves the creation of eternal life. People always talk about creation as if it's already been done and is now over. It's not over, it's ongoing.
 
If there is a god (being an agnostic, I can't be sure there isn't) I would seriously doubt that each of our individual parts are written out... but perhaps the general factors of the universe are.

Having set the starting conditions of the universe and the laws of physics, god should know that eventually there will be these things called stars and lumps of cooler matter will orbit around them... probably with little self perpetuating reactions residing on them. He might even be able to know the range of possibilities that might arise out of this life, but not the specifics. He would also be able to predict black holes and the inevitable entropic death of the universe.

In that framework, he could work his plan. Personally, I think he would have made things for the same reason an artist makes things. Because it can be done. Because anything is better than void.

But who knows.
 
superluminal said:
This is for theists. A simple question.

1) Are we all, as god's creations, part of an intricate plan in which each of us has a role or purpose if you will?

That's all.

Can I get the theists here to give a short answer to this simple but profound question?
Click to expand...
I wonder what God has planned for himself??
 
superluminal said:
This is for theists. A simple question.

1) Are we all, as god's creations, part of an intricate plan in which each of us has a role or purpose if you will?

That's all.

Can I get the theists here to give a short answer to this simple but profound question?
Click to expand...

Yes that is part of Aquinas' Fifth Proof of God's existance.
It does not mean that you cant deviate from that purpose/plan by going against divine will.

Only God can see the entire plan. All we know is the theme: each of us is called to Holiness, and to participate in Christ's work of Salvation.

The paths of God's plan work in strange ways, twist in many peculiar an unexpected ways.
 
OK. The purpose of the question then (which I'm sure you saw coming...)

Lawdog wrote:

It does not mean that you cant deviate from that purpose/plan by going against divine will.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does. I will not tolerate the claims that an omniscient, omnipotent god with an intricate plan allows for free will.

What if we atheists are successful and the entire world turns from 'god' and forgets about religion?

Won't happen you say? Because gods plan won't allow it? Bullshit. Ya can't have it both ways people. You cannot.

Now, defend your god concept. Do it on the basis that I claim the argument that god is omniscient, omnipotent and has a plan, but humans can exercise free will and damage that plan, is logically self contradictory and bullshit and a six year old wouldnt buy it.

We can go against gods will but we can't affect his devine plan, you say?

Bullshit. If god is the almighty creator and director of the universe, and we are essential to his plan, then no, we cannot.

A simple illustrative example, and please don't debate trivialities.

Scenario 1) The GOD corporation makes computers. They have a plan to place their computers in every home by insuring perfect customer satisfaction. What their ultimate plan is, we're not sure. To this end they have arranged to monitor every computer and can effect repairs instantly when a deviation shows up. They do this and their plan is ultimately successful. Especially since there's NO competition in the industry.

Scenario 2) The GOD corporation makes computers. They have a plan to place their computers in every home by insuring perfect customer satisfaction. What their ultimate plan is, we're not sure. To this end they have arranged to monitor every computer and can effect repairs instantly when a deviation shows up. However, they have PURPOSELY installed a BIOS subroutine that allows the computer to 'decide' (based on some random events) to take itself out of the monitor grid and do it's own thing (like displaying graphic porn and "Leave it to Beaver" reruns), which of course pisses off the customer and they just do without a computer.

They do this and their plan is, by definition, unsuccessful.

God has fore knowledge of which computers will "take themselves out" and that too is part of the plan you say?

Fine. That's still scenario one. Still no free will. The GOD corporation, for whatever reason wants certain computers to fail and that is all part of the plan. But it's far WORSE for the computer. The computer that fails, by design, must be immersed in a vat of boiling lead, for an eternity of circuit torture.

Now, defend yourselves. And try to make sense if you can.
 
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