No Way Out?

[geeser]

If there is a God who created us then this postulate will stand since He knows everything about us.
The statement that God is infallible from the consequences of postulate 1 is an assumption since an omniscient God will know the results of our decisions but does not make our decisions. But since He knows who we are and our heart’s intentions then it is likely He will know what we will decide. Conclusion – the assumption stands.

SVRP here you agree that god is'nt surprised.

These statements assume that there are 2000 years of human interpretation in the Bible. If something did exist within them whether they were God-led, God-ordained, or God-inspired, these statements conclude it is inaccurate and found to be nonsense. Jesus is irrelevant. Therefore anything within them will be throw out and should not contribute to the end conclusion. If God exists then He should not be surprised. Conclusion – Anything related to Jesus is thrown out, but the statements do not tell us of God’s character other than He is knowledgeable.

as humans are the only creatures on this planet, as we know it, that have a written language, then how else would the bible get it's interpretations, so it certainly not an assumption, animals cant interpret it can they, so who else.
the main point is god is not surprised, jesus or moses or noah or job, cain, anybody else for that matter, have no effect on that so they are irrelevant to that fact, not irrelevant totally just to that fact. the statement need not tell us god character, just gods not surprised.

his statement does not give any insight to God’s character. Being knowledgeable of a person’s atheism does not conclude God’s character as being evil. Assuming the person is going to hell because he is an atheist is inconsistent with previous statements. It is assuming an action by God when the character of God has been undetermined. Plus there is an assumption there is a hell and an eternity, which has also been undetermined. And the statement, “I will go to hell for eternity”, must be thrown out since it can be derived that Jesus taught about an eternal hell. Conclusion – The faulty assumption of going to hell is inconsistent with previous statements since anything related to Jesus is considered irrelevant. The argument falls apart here, and the statement does not contribute to either side of the conundrum, nor does it tell us of God’s character other than He is knowledgeable.

it does'nt need to, all this is totally irrelevant, the point is, is god surprised, NO. if god knows/ always known that he's an atheist, and remember god new before he was born( an innocent) that he was going to be atheist and he does nothing to stop him going to hell. then you can only conclude that the character of god is evil or nonexistant.

 

[SVRP]

Actually I tend to think that the statement that God can not be surprised says it all......taken to it's full and proper conclusion in absolutum. A bit like saying God is Omni potent and perfectly moral.....all statements if taken in full with out exclusion clauses and indemnities all lead to the same conclusoin.

Every one ends up in heaven.......no such place as hell.....perfect rehabilitation comes to mind, God takes responsibility in full for his creation and doesn't pass the buck.
I fail to see how wriggling around and using conditional logic exhonerates [spellings] God of his ultimate responsibility. I would suggest that we stop making excuses for God. Attempting to validate and justify his non participation or non disclosure of his existance.

It amazes me how endlessly people will try to justify and excuse their God for his inaction and complacency not to mention his apparent disdain for human morality, justice and most importantly our ability to reason and apply our ability see a fraud for what it is....a fraud.

That is your opinion, Quantum Quack, and it is your right to state it. But because God is knowledgable does not conclude a character about God. Plus the fact that superluminal has chosen to be an atheist does not fault God about his choice nor conclude that He is evil.

 

[SVRP]

it does'nt need to, all this is totally irrelevant, the point is, is god surprised, NO. if god knows/ always known that he's an atheist, and remember god new before he was born( an innocent) that he was going to be atheist and he does nothing to stop him going to hell. then you can only conclude that the character of god is evil or nonexistant.

If you are going to include the bible in the above statement then you have to include that God did provide a way to return to Him, but superluminal has chosen not to take it. How is God at fault from his choice?

If you are not going to include the bible in the above statement, then from what source does he conclude he is going to hell for being an atheist? For what reason would God do that action? You don’t have a standard to measure that if you don’t have the source where he got it from.

Superluminal has made unsupported assumptions if his source is outside the bible, or biased assertions if he has, and deduced an illogical conclusion.

 

[Yorda_7]

Plus the fact that superluminal has chosen to be an atheist does not fault God about his choice nor conclude that He is evil.

I doubt he chose to be an atheist. God made him an atheist. He couldn't "choose" to believe in a religion because they make no sense to him.

 

[Quantum Quack]

certainly the God I know is not evil but this is not the God of the bible....

 

[geeser]

If you are going to include the bible in the above statement then you have to include that God did provide a way to return to Him, but superluminal has chosen not to take it. How is God at fault from his choice?

If you are not going to include the bible in the above statement, then from what source does he conclude he is going to hell for being an atheist? For what reason would God do that action? You don’t have a standard to measure that if you don’t have the source where he got it from.

Superluminal has made unsupported assumptions if his source is outside the bible, or biased assertions if he has, and deduced an illogical conclusion.

let's take superliminal out of the equation, (sorry super)

PREMISE: god is all powerful, and all knowing, god can not be surprised.
INFERENCE:god knows some people are atheist, god knew this before they were born, god knows this but is not surprised, Before the Christian god creates a man with a soul, he knows whether or not that man will go to Hell. He is omniscient and He created Hell?. The Christian god then makes people anyway, even though he knows he will send most of them to Hell ,thus he sends a man to hell for being exactly what he created him to be? He is perfect, so he certainly doesn't do it by accident.
CONCLUSION:god must be evil, else god as defined by the bible cannot exist.(A god can not be loving, omniscient, omnipotent and send people to Hell. They are mutually exclusive.)

incidently Our English word "Hell" appears in the Old Testament Scriptures thirty-one times.
The Hebrew word "Sheol" appears in the Old Testament in all sixty-five times.
and the greek word "Hades" is used to translate the Hebrew word "Sheol"
and I am using the bible
so the postulate of superliminals is correct and not illogical, but yours most certainly is illogical.
notice I never brought jesus into it.

 

[SVRP]

let's take superliminal out of the equation, (sorry super)
PREMISE: god is all powerful, and all knowing, god can not be surprised.
INFERENCE:god knows some people are atheist, god knew this before they were born, god knows this but is not surprised, Before the Christian god creates a man with a soul, he knows whether or not that man will go to Hell. He is omniscient and He created Hell?. The Christian god then makes people anyway, even though he knows he will send most of them to Hell ,thus he sends a man to hell for being exactly what he created him to be? He is perfect, so he certainly doesn't do it by accident.
CONCLUSION:god must be evil, else god as defined by the bible cannot exist.(A god can not be loving, omniscient, omnipotent and send people to Hell. They are mutually exclusive.)

First, when you say “Christian god” then you are implying the God that is taught by Jesus. Which means you are excluding the provision of redemption as taught by Jesus, the very foundation of the Christian faith. It is like eliminating the foundation of a house and then criticizing the builder that the house cannot stand. But it has already been expressed that to remove the foundation was illogical to do. Therefore, expressing the “Christian god” in the “inference” without the foundation is illogical and is being biased.

Second, you left out the statement that man was born “innocent” but has chosen to be an atheist. Why would God be at fault if the man had chosen to be an atheist? The provision to return to Him is extended to all men. It is there choice whether to accept it or not.

incidently Our English word "Hell" appears in the Old Testament Scriptures thirty-one times.
The Hebrew word "Sheol" appears in the Old Testament in all sixty-five times.
and the greek word "Hades" is used to translate the Hebrew word "Sheol"
and I am using the bible
so the postulate of superliminals is correct and not illogical, but yours most certainly is illogical.
notice I never brought jesus into it.

Then you must be referring to the “Jewish god” when you are using the Old Testament. But the Old Testament also has statements of God’s mercy, love, and redemption. He also gives promises to those who seek Him out that they will find Him. To exclude those statements is also being biased and not logical.

For example: A man sends out invitations to a feast. He sends out the invitations to include his enemies. In the invitation he includes a promise of peace between them. Even though he knows his enemies will never accept the invitation, you cannot deduce that the man is evil.
God has done the same thing in both the Old and New Testaments. To exclude those statements is being biased and illogical.

 

[enton]

This is for theists. A simple question.

1) Are we all, as god's creations, part of an intricate plan in which each of us has a role or purpose if you will?

That's all.

Can I get the theists here to give a short answer to this simple but profound question?

As a christian, my purpose and my will aforetime, having known that there is an end in my physical life, is to achieve eternal happiness in the congregation of God.

 

[Angelic Being]

Angelic Being,

So your answer is YES?

There is a plan BUT you have to know what it is FIRST.