News From Gaza

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So who won?

In a small shop by their rocketed, bullet-pocked apartment building, the Abed Rabo family argued raucously about the impact of the 48-hour Israeli military incursion, which killed nearly 100 Palestinians, including some neighbors.

“We all support resistance to the Israelis,” said Hitam Abed Rabo, 33, a lawyer with the military court set up by Hamas, which she supports. “They talk about responding to rockets, but nothing justifies what the Israelis did here. They have to be confronted with strong resistance, so they don’t come back.”

Will firing rockets on Israeli towns bring independence and freedom? “Yes,” she said. “Absolutely.”

Ayash Abed Rabo, 34, her cousin, scoffed. “These rockets are a joke,” he said. “We want to live. We want peace. I don’t want Israel here, and I don’t want resistance.”

Israeli officials say the operation was meant to show Hamas — the militant Islamist group in power here, which opposes peace with Israel — the cost of continuing to fire rockets, especially the longer range ones, and to try to create further popular dissatisfaction with Hamas. Arguments persist over how many of the dead were truly uninvolved civilians, with Palestinian officials saying half or more than half, and Israel saying far less than half.

But the residents here were horrified by the numbers of civilians they believed had died, and even officials here of Fatah — the more secular Palestinian party negotiating with Israel — think the popular reaction has served to strengthen Hamas by turning it into the victim, at least in the short term.
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And how does bombing schools help?
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The Palestinian education ministry issued a report on Thursday stating that 22 Palestinian students were killed in the latest Israeli attacks on the Palestinian coastal region.

The report, which covers the period between the 27th of February to the 3rd of March also shows that 20 students were injured in those attacks.

The report also said that during the Israeli ground offensive targeting the northern part of the Gaza strip last week the Israeli tanks partially destroyed two schools.
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GeoffP: "So who is going to help them then?"

I tried to explain that a dozen posts back. I'll try to be clearer now, although I haven't got much time to think before heading out the door. Zionism in Israel requires (for its domination and elimination of the Palestinian people) the support of US and world opinion in overlooking the irreconcilable injustice of ethnic separatism and ethnic supremacism. The Levant has much too profound a multicultural history, and too many vital connections with the world outside, to stay divided. Modern zionism is not morally sustainable.

To maintain their artifice, zionists hide behind the Torah and the Shoah, just like any terrorist behind a hostage. Zionists advance their agenda by manipulating the lingering guilt of the West, and by manipulating the ignorance of many USAmerican Christians. But Israel's account-balance of victimhood vs. aggression is now changing in the eyes of the world, and in the eyes of USAmericans, like never before. The pretense of morality is unraveling, the more Palestinians are made to suffer. The present passion-play is not good PR for zionism, to say the least.

This torturous standoff won't be de-escalated with bloodshed, and it won't be solved by knocking down Israel's walls from the outside. This insanity will end when Israelis are firmly compelled to confront the truth that they have no right to treat people this way. Zionism will be increasingly exposed and isolated in shame, until there is an Israeli imperative to remove this desecration of Jewish and Levantine life. Jews will dismantle from the inside this stifling prison of fear and hatred that zionism has built, and that redemption begins when the world stops playing along in this sick game of pretend.
 
In the case of the Palestinians, letting them all back into Israel would result in the end of the entire purpose for which the state of Israel was created. I don't see why they should be rewarded for their violence. The Palestinians have no claim to morality, and they manipulate the media with outright lies that influence otherwise well-meaning and compassionate people. We know what's going on, and we see similarities between Hamas and other terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and Al Quida. There is no future in such ideologies. The Palestinians have painted themselves into a corner, the only way out is to reject terrorism.
 
"In the case of the Palestinians, letting them all back into Israel would result in the end of the entire purpose for which the state of Israel was created."

If by purpose you mean segregationism, you're right: A Jewish super-ghetto was never an intelligent plan for the prosperity of Jewish life.

"I don't see why they should be rewarded for their violence."

Violence should never be rewarded. Who is committing the greatest violence today between Jews and the rest, SG?

"The Palestinians have no claim to morality"

All human beings have a claim to morality, and should act on it without violence.

"The Palestinians have painted themselves into a corner, the only way out is to reject terrorism."

Of course. That is why zionists incite terrorism- The end of Palestinian terrorism is a zionist's worst nightmare.
 
Combining the Jewish and Palestinian population isn't a recipe for Jewish prosperity or safety. That is why a two-state solution is the only commonly accepted proposal.

The amount of violence is irrelevent. When attacked, it is preferrable to respond with overwhelming force.

I do not believe that the existence of terrorism against Israel is due to anything more than the existence of Israel. The end of Palestinian terrorism is Hamas' worst nightmare, they require the continuing victimhood of the Arabs to maintain their power, not unlike most Palestinian politicians.
 
hypewaders said:
chuuush: 'I suppose time has really come for the Palestinian people to remind the world that "You are either with us or against us!" '


The Marquis: "Remind, as if such an ultimatum was a fact at some point?"


It's a pervasive tactic. "With us or against us" is constantly employed by the government, major media, militarists, the Christian far-right, and pro-zionists in the USA.
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Such a terribly... limited... list.
And do you suppose that other peoples will show you forebearance and tolerance in the future, if they were to gain the upper hand? Will you show them your reams of words written in sympathy, and wait proudly for your reward?
 
S.A.M. said:
Do you also accept this for Palestinians under occupation?
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It's the preferable strategy for anyone. However, the Arab nations tried this and failed. Now the terrorists just lob an occasional rocket at Israel, which does nothing but provoke retaliation, which is the purpose, so they can claim victimhood and pursuade the gullible.
 
spidergoat said:
It's the preferable strategy for anyone. However, the Arab nations tried this and failed. Now the terrorists just lob an occasional rocket at Israel, which does nothing but provoke retaliation, which is the purpose, so they can claim victimhood and pursuade the gullible.
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We're not talking about the Arab nations, we're talking about the Palestinians.

And they are victims. Thats what occupation does, it creates victims.
 
OR...if Israelis and Palestinians cannot solve their problems peacifully than solve them as quickly as possible. Make that was as short as possible so that it does not drag on for generations like it does now...so that sons and daughters of Israel and Palestine are not dragged to this mess.
 
spidergoat said:
... the terrorists just lob an occasional rocket at Israel, which does nothing but provoke retaliation, which is the purpose, so they can claim victimhood and pursuade the gullible.
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Translating to the other POV:

… the terrorists just bulldoze down some more apartments, randomly shell some more fields, kill more than 20 children for each Israeli killed, which does recruit more suicide bombers and provokes more retaliation, which is the purpose, so Israel can claim victimhood and persuade the gullible.

This chain or retaliatory violence will not protect Israel. Someday a biological attack on Tele Vive will occur, which will reverse the kill ratio. It is easy to do. - In a separate post tell a couple of ways how, but I am sure others not friendly to Israel already know better ways once Iran has the agent weaponized.

Years ago I offered a defensive plan, which at least has a chance of protecting Israel, but Israel obviously wishes yet another round of expansion and needs to suffer a few more justifying victims. - Israel does not wish to install an effective defense.

Israel is also exterminating the Bedouins - quietly as they are too primitive to fire rockets or make suicide belts. Israel is bulldozing their temporary shacks, forcing them into camps, etc. but that has only provoked a few stones thrown at the bulldozers. That is not providing any plausible PR justification for Israel claiming the Sinai and Negev land they have lived on for more than 10,000 years, so it is risky for the press to even photograph it. (One courageous BBC reported did about a year ago. I saw it on TV.)
 
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So, back to Gaza.

Is the situation in Gaza a portent for greater instability in the region?

As Israel pursues its "holocaust" in Gaza, America deploys a destroyer off Lebanon, Iranian President Ahmadinejad makes a historic trip to Iraq and the Arab cold war grows colder, should the region be bracing itself for the worst
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http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/887/fr1.htm
 
Mod note: In my opinion, this thread has served it's purpose. We have discussed most of the major issues, and now some people are getting personal. Perhaps there will be a SAM's News from Gaza 2 one day. Until then, feel free to start your own threads on the continuing Middle East crises.
 
MOD HAT: Ok i cleaned the thread all the way back to page 15, if i need to go futher back than that PM me and i will TRY

Anyway take two, thread opened
 
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