Alphanumeric you are in for a rude awakening! America is was indeed on founded as a Judeo-Christian nation. Have you ever been to Washington D.C. (the nations capital)? Well if you did you would be able to witness many biblical verses and references commemorating the name of the Jewish G-d etched within granite, marble and brass on federal institutions all over our nations capital.
The Founding Fathers were deists and the engraving of the various bible quotes on government buildings is a violation of the separation of church and state. That fundamental tenant of the constitution is perhaps the one most often violated, probably because the majority of Americans don't mind it being violated, just like slavery was accepted because 'the majority' thought it was okay for the longest time. Doesn't mean it was, even if the bible says its okay.
There's ceremonial deism in many countries which are mostly secular but that's not the same as 'being' a particular religious nation. Here in the UK we have the Queen as the head of the Church of England, which is the 'official' religion but no one takes it as seriously as say Saudi Arabia takes Islam. I'm not religious but I'll still respect churches and I'm quiet during funerals etc. But then I'd respect anyone's property and not 'crash' any event for someone else.
as well as the famous quotation that is written all over American currency that says, “In G-d we trust“.
Which was added in 1954 (If memory serves, US history is not my thing), partly due to the whole "Red scare" where the USSR was depicted as a godless nation and the whole 'religious right' or 'moral majority' thing was strong in the US. State endorsed prayer in school wasn't there originally, neither was 'God' (ie the Judeo-Christian God*) involves in oaths of office or the pledge of allegiance, which always seemed a weird one to us Brit. A vague comment on that is how in all TV shows about US government agencies (FBI etc) there's
always a US flag in the corner. Are you all insecure about your patriotism or something?
* I find it funny that Christians and Jews disagree on so many things, such as Christ being divine or worth listening to (hence the name
Christian) yet whenever it suits someone's purpose suddenly its the 'Judeo-Christian God', when infact there's much more similarity between Islam and Judaism than either with Christianity. Things like having a lot more ceremonies and day-to-day rules, such as food rules. Christianity is the odd one out but no one wants to say 'Judeo-Islamic God' !! God forbid! (which each religion seems to think he did!).
When one enters the national archives building a bronze depiction of the 10 commandments gilds the entryway floor. Additionally within the capital building there are rotunda paintings… some which include Pocahontas being baptized, and pilgrims praying for G-d’s mercies before sailing to the New World. One can also view above the house chamber’s main door where there are marble relief’s of history’s 22 greatest lawmakers, in which they are all facing Moses. It doesn’t stop there, it continues on into the supreme court building above the eastern pediment (a triangular looking rock area) are histories major lawmakers (carved out in a realistic dimension setting) in which Moses is again in the center holding a copy of the 10 commandments. But to first enter the supreme court one must pass through two oak doors which also have an engraved depiction of the 10 commandments on them, and in the court room itself, above the justices chair benches one can see another engraving of Moses holding the 10 commandments.
Things built in the last 150 years have nothing to do with the Founding Fathers. I know America has a short history but it goes back further than that.
Additionally, within the U.S. capital building’s chapel there are stained glass windows which portray George Washington praying below the phrase, “This Nation Under G-d”.
Individually some people were religious but they deliberately founded a
non-religious government. The first wave of people from Europe came because in Europe there were official state religions and plenty of people were persecuted because of it. By founding a secular government which couldn't promote one religion over another (and there's 30,000 different Christian churches so 'Christianity' doesn't count as just one. Ask a mormon!) so that religious belief of
anyone would be unhindered by the government.
The fact the US government gives tax exempt status to 'valid' religions is a flagrant violation of the Establishment Clause, as it puts the government directly in the business of saying "You're a real religion, you're a cult, you're a cult, you're valid".
So the fact you can point to things now which violate the constitution doesn't support your case, it just means that people of a particular belief hold enough power and enough of a majority to let certain things slide. But if any single sect of Christianity got too much power in the US the other sects would be suppressed in some way so its in their best interest to keep a vague truce. After all if you go too far you end up with a theocracy and despite the bible not having any issues with that there's enough trouble in the Middle East from such things.
Democracy cannot work properly without religion backing it. The reason for this is because the notion for what we as humans call “freedom” was first noticed when and only after “sin” crept into the equation (the fall of Adam and Eve), which later in history led to the giving of the 10 commandments on which “liberation“ is a precondition - representing the Jews that were LIBERATED out of Egypt.
Except that the Greeks invented (or at least applied it on a wide scale) and they either were before the events you mention (if those events even occured) or at the very least didn't believe in the god of the bible.
And the whole "Let my people go" thing doesn't promote democracy. Moses wasn't voted in, he was 'choosen by god' and if the people didn't like that
tough. The bible preaches "I'm god, so as I say or I'll burn you". Yeah, real democratic. Please point me to the passage where 'God's choosen people' held an election to decide who among them would be their leader.
These Judeo Christian beliefs were later instilled into the 3rd president of the United States, Thomas Jefferson (in his political philosophy) which can be found in the Declaration of Independence.
The same guy who considered Moses the most detestable figure in literary history? Yeah, I'm
really sure he was following the bible's lead on that one....
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.
All people save the black ones cos they don't count and that's not what 'the Creator' (which by no means means the god of the bible, deists don't have to believe in that god to believe in a god) was referring to, right?
Right? Because as everyone knows the US didn't have slavery on the books ever,
right? And it was always the deeply religious Deep South who were most accommodating to blacks,
right?
Oh, hang on, it was
precisely the opposite. 'The Bible Belt' were the states during your civil war which
supported slavery. Maybe they weren't 'true Christians', as they obviously didn't get the message of democracy and equal rights
for all you seem to think is a natural inevitability of the bible. It wasn't until the much more secular Europe said "This is wrong" and the idea spread that slavery was stopped. And it only took about
1800 years of Christianity. Yep, that message really rang loud and clear out of the bible!
The first 56 word of the Declaration are noticeably G-d orientated. However, some people assume that the Constitution is separated from the Declaration because there is no mention of G-d. However, the Constitution is not G-dless and it is not a separate document. It may look like a secular document, but the Constitution based on article 7 states that when we ratified the constitution that it was not done as a brand new document, but based under the Declaration. Therefore it was not necessary for the Constitution to repeat what was already there.
You really do need to learn what 'deism' means.
The Puritans were members of the Church of England that wanted to “purify” the English Bible.
Is that a bit like Conservapedia wanting to expunge all 'liberal bias' from the King James version?
And for those that continue to argue (and push) their atheist views to separate and even go to the lengths of banning religion from the schools, public places and the country…
Strawman. Kids in school can still pray. They can still pray in parks. They can still go to church. All that happened was
government lead prayer was stopped and government funded things could not be religious in nature, precisely as the Constitution you just rambled on about says!
I'm atheist and I don't want to ban churches or religion. In my ideal world people wouldn't need the crutch of religion, they'd employ critical thinking skills (something too many people lack) and realise that there's no evidence for a god. Doesn't mean there is not god, personal faith I don't have much of an issue with. What I have issue with is all the dogmatic crap and the whole "My believe X therefore I'm going to enforce that on you". Its only in the last few years Sunday trading laws have been weakened here in the UK. I remember shops only being allowed to be open for 4~6 hours on a Sunday and not before 11am. Two people of the same gender want legally recognised association? Fine. They want to call it 'marriage'? Fine. Its not harming anyone. The notion of
banning religion is as stupid as 'banning' homosexuality. As just about every law in existence shows banning something doesn't mean some people won't do it. Education, information and honesty is the way to do with a lot of things, be you a Christian who dislikes homosexuality or an atheist who dislikes religion.
This is what truly made/makes America.
Nothing to do with vast resources, a strong economic foundation and the fact you didn't have the shit bombed out of you last century then? The UK is
officially Christian and we've gone from the most powerful country on Earth to just another European country. China is officially atheist and it'll overtake the US in economic power, its only a matter of time. The US has the largest prisoner population, per capita, of
any country and even then a higher proportion than the population at large is religious. The UK has a population of about 65 million and a prison population of about 85,000. The US has a population of about 5 times that but a prison population around 20~25 times that. Having faith obviously doesn't make you automatically behave in a particular way, so just sticking the 10 commandments on a few government buildings isn't going to make your country's issues go away.
It will be a sad day when religion is abolished, and all those who fight for religion to be excluded from the subjection of its citizens.
Strawman. If you bothered to ask a couple of atheists or secular people you'd find that very very few want religion
banned. It should not be helped via tax breaks or government funding or through legislature
In effect we will have lost the true meaning of what it means to be LIBERATED.
Liberated in what sense? Liberated from having to think for yourself? Liberated from having to work out how the universe works? Liberated from questions on morality and justice? Your god, if he exists, is everywhere at all times, seeing and knowing everything. To paraphrase Christopher Hitchins, your god is like big brother and makes the entire universe into something akin to North Korea, where he must be praised endlessly, regardless of what he does (or
doesn't) do and since he's always watching you he knows when you think anything 'against the state' (or in this case religion). The book of revelations talks about how god is endlessly praised by those weird creatures in heaven and sits on a golden thrown. Is he that insecure that he needs someone to keep telling him how awesome he is? Just because he created them? And he can send anyone who doesn't to a place of eternal torment because he's god, we're here because of him and what he says goes (the whole 'might makes right' concept of the god of the bible is anti-democratic and immoral)? My parents made me but they wouldn't be allowed to lock me in the basement and have someone constantly torture me, yet god gets away with it!
If your morals work in the fashion that if an act is sinful if I do it but just if a god does then you don't have any notion of what morality is. Personally I wouldn't want to spend an eternity with such a being, heaven for me would
not having to kiss ass to someone 24/7. In fact the very notion of living forever I think would be a punishment, not a reward. That's not to say I don't like living, living healthily for say 500 years and then dying quickly would be nice, enough time to see the world (and maybe even other planets if technology keeps going) and try my hand at lots of things. Living forever would be terribly boring after the first trillion millennia or so.
When we loose touch of religion, we are cut off from all freedoms given to us by our loving creator, for it is only by Him that they are given.
Its sad you have such a narrow view of existence, that you need someone else to define it for you. Perhaps this is part of the reason to cling to faith so hard, you have completely defined yourself and your view of the world through the eyes of 'there's a big man in the sky watching everything and if you're bad he'll burn you forever'. Now you're in so deep you can't bear to let go or even consider letting go of your security blanket.
