Name a god - how many can we find

[Cris]

lg,

I got the same impression from your post, hence the reciprocation

Then you made a mistake.

 

[Cris]

Lg,

If they are sufficiently intelligent to perceive the cause of all causes there is a consensus - its the same principle that a team leader is required for undertaking any project

No it isn’t. It is a group of equals reaching identical conclusions.

are you saying that the same entity could have seperate incarnations or are you saying that the entities would be operate out of eternal distinct and different potencies (in otherwords would the multiple gods be uniformly omnipotent and omniscient and thus there would be no distinction between one and another since they would essentially all have the same sense of "I" or would the powers of one god be capable of infringing or withdrawing from the purview of another?

Pretty certain I’m not saying any of that. I’m saying there could be more than one with identical abilities.

 

[Michael]

Hey, did anyone post these two favorets????


Flying Spaghetti Monster

Invisible Pink Unicorn

 

[Cris]

Nice.

 

[VitalOne]

Vital,

No not quite. Two twins would be identical but they would be separate. In the case of multiple gods they would be separate but equally capable.

Twins are not the same, there are many differences, therefore their properties are not identical as one twin can be left-handed and the other right-handed, one straight, the other gay

No. Two separate descriptions of the same thing are not the same as two descriptions of separate things with identical properties.

Do you know what identical means? If two things have identical properties they must be identical.

Ok, but that doesn’t rule out other gods with identical abilities.

How can their be 'other' gods? The cause of all causes is ONE by nature and logic. There cannot be two cause of all causes as that would be contradictory.

Again you have simply made the same mistake as above. You need to think this through more carefully.

You need to think it more through. If two things have identical properties, then they are not different. Twins do not have identical properties, there are many differences. Two objects appearing to have identical properties also do not have identical properties in reality.

Why not? Why can’t there be multiple gods with the same abilities? Nothing you have said rules out that possibility.

You don't understand the contradiction? You're saying there's TWO 'cause of all causes' how can this be? It doesn't make any logical sense.

You really are having difficulty understanding this simple idea. Take two identical cars coming off a production line. What you are trying to say here is that there is really only one car. Do you see your problem?

The cars are not identical. I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.....

if there is a cause of all causes...how can their be more than one? a 'cause of all causes' is ONE by nature...if there are two cause of all causes then they are not the cause of all causes.

 

[Cris]

Vital,

Twins are not the same, there are many differences, therefore their properties are not identical as one twin can be left-handed and the other right-handed, one straight, the other gay

It’s an analogy to demonstrate a point. If we have multiple gods they’d be separate beings with their own identities, but in all essential aspects they’d be equally powerful.

Do you know what identical means? If two things have identical properties they must be identical.

Yes Ok, but you understand that they are also separate, right?

How can their be 'other' gods?

If there can be one why can’t there be more than one?

The cause of all causes is ONE by nature and logic.

I am not saying there are multiple causes for the same things only that there could be multiple gods capable of causing all things.

There cannot be two cause of all causes as that would be contradictory.

Agreed, and I am not claiming that. You should perhaps read my posts to LG as I’ve covered this already. If something is caused by a god then only one god would be involved but that doesn’t rule out that multiple gods could exist.

If two things have identical properties, then they are not different.

Note I didn’t say they are identical but they have identical properties, e.g. I have the ability to play golf and so does my friend. In this respect we have identical properties with respect to golf. I have another friend who cannot play golf, so we differ in that regard. As to multiple gods we could say that they each have the abilities of omniscience and omnipotence, so in these issues they have identical properties. This is not to say they are identical beings, they can be different in some form of identity etc, but in all essential issues of godlike powers they have the same abilities.

Twins do not have identical properties, there are many differences. Two objects appearing to have identical properties also do not have identical properties in reality.

You appear to be deliberately missing the point, but I think my explanation above should help you.

You don't understand the contradiction? You're saying there's TWO 'cause of all causes' how can this be? It doesn't make any logical sense.

No I haven’t said that. That a god causes things doesn’t rule out the existence of other gods that can also cause things if they so desire.

The cars are not identical.

Why not? I think you are confusing the concepts of sameness with separateness. For example take two photo-copies of a document. They are identical in every essential respect yet they are two separate pieces of paper.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.....

I understand what you are saying perfectly and I can see your confusion and misunderstanding. As I said you need to think this through a little more carefully.

if there is a cause of all causes...how can their be more than one?

Because not all gods in this context need to have caused all the causes. That doesn’t mean that all the gods do not have the abilities to cause all causes if they so wished. However, once one god has caused everything then clearly the other gods could not do it again. Except perhaps if one god destroyed everything then another could start all over again. Given an infinite amount of time perhaps this has already occurred an infinite number of times already.

a 'cause of all causes' is ONE by nature...

As explained above.

if there are two cause of all causes then they are not the cause of all causes.

And again, I have not said that.

 

[lightgigantic]

cris

“ are you saying that the same entity could have seperate incarnations or are you saying that the entities would be operating out of eternal distinct and different potencies (in otherwords would the multiple gods be uniformly omnipotent and omniscient and thus there would be no distinction between one and another since they would essentially all have the same sense of "I" or would the powers of one god be capable of infringing or withdrawing from the purview of another?

Pretty certain I’m not saying any of that. I’m saying there could be more than one with identical abilities.

but I am asking if those gods that have identical abilties (of omnipotence and omniscience) view themselves as one and the same or whether they view themselves as different and distinctly seperate and unconnected entities - there are obvious logical implications for your decision.

If you don't want to answer this q and just want to leave it where you're at I can say that you are right to a degree, but there remains further issues to the subject you are not ressolving which can result in the misunderstanding of the idea you are presenting.

 

[Godless]

Hmmm... Lets see, we argue the quantity of gods that have existed in human history, theist claim "there's only been one god with many names"

So Theists explain, why the hell are there 1000's of different world religions, worshiping one god, and yet you [guys] force your idealogy to those who don't see "god" they way you do? WE want an explanation!, why the hell exists such things as religious wars, when you claim that there's only one god? Why the hell, do you want to "force" your rhetorical bull shit, on the rest of those who don't believe as you do, why the hell can't you [guys] live in harmony? If there's only one fucking god!!!:bugeye:

 

[Cris]

Lg,

but I am asking if those gods that have identical abilties (of omnipotence and omniscience) view themselves as one and the same or whether they view themselves as different and distinctly seperate and unconnected entities - there are obvious logical implications for your decision.

The idea in all this is separate gods.

If you don't want to answer this q and just want to leave it where you're at I can say that you are right to a degree, but there remains further issues to the subject you are not ressolving which can result in the misunderstanding of the idea you are presenting.

What further issues? What am I not resolving?

 

[lightgigantic]

Cris

Lg,

The idea in all this is separate gods.

What further issues? What am I not resolving?

How can two entities be supremely omnipotent, omniscient etc ?- what would be the medium that they could even interact in unless one is viewed as the ultimate cause of the phenomenal world ?

 

[Cris]

lg,

How can two entities be supremely omnipotent, omniscient etc ?-

Where is the problem?

what would be the medium that they could even interact in unless one is viewed as the ultimate cause of the phenomenal world ?

I don't udnerstand the question.

 

[audible]

you know absolute meaning the ultimate, the origin of, the highest degree, the basis, the essential.

so you mean total perfection.

 

[tablariddim]

Is somebody sad enough to wade through this thread and actually COUNT all the gods posted? Hurry up I'm dying to know.

 

[audible]

could not tell you, how many on this thread, possibly a couple of hundred, but there are 2,850+ different deities thoughout the world.

and that does'nt include the FSM or IPU.( I dont know why, they are equally valid)

http://www.godchecker.com/

 

[Prince_James]

Some Oriental deities:

Chu Jung - God of Fire.

Kung-Kung - God of Water.

Seiryuu, Byakko, Suzaku, Kirin, and Genbu - The five beasts.

 

[tablariddim]

Some Oriental deities:

Chu Jung - God of Fire.

Kung-Kung - God of Water.

Seiryuu, Byakko, Suzaku, Kirin, and Genbu - The five beasts.

Mmmmmm... sounds like sushi!

 

[firdroirich]

Many gods here

 

[lightgigantic]

lg,


“ How can two entities be supremely omnipotent, omniscient etc ?- ”

Where is the problem?

situations like this would crop up all the time

(Supremely Omnipotent Omniscient God Personality who is the Cause of all Causes - SOOGPCOAC)

SOOGPCOAC #1 - so tell me how did you create this world?

SOOGPCOAC #2 - Me? I thought it was you who created it ....

In other words if a causeless entity starts causing effects it becomes difficult to ascertain who (or what) is the cause of all causes - welcome to oxymoronville

“ what would be the medium that they could even interact in unless one is viewed as the ultimate cause of the phenomenal world ? ”

I don't udnerstand the question.

two entities who are the cause of all causes meet each other on a planet - who caused the planet?

 

[SkinWalker]

The obvious answer is that there are no gods to begin with. Just humans that want there to be and can't bear to have it not be their own.

 

[Cris]

Lg,

situations like this would crop up all the time

Not really because they would all be omniscient so they would all know what each was going to do at any instant. There could never be any confusion, and with perfect intelligence there would never be conflict or confusion.

(Supremely Omnipotent Omniscient God Personality who is the Cause of all Causes - SOOGPCOAC)

SOOGPCOAC #1 - so tell me how did you create this world?

SOOGPCOAC #2 - Me? I thought it was you who created it ....

Not a possible scenario, their omniscience prevents that.

In other words if a causeless entity starts causing effects it becomes difficult to ascertain who (or what) is the cause of all causes - welcome to oxymoronville

Not if they are all omniscient, which you have included in your definition. There could only be perfect coordination and cooperation as would be expected from perfect beings.

two entities who are the cause of all causes meet each other on a planet - who caused the planet?

You are confusing abilities with actions again. It is not necessary that all gods in a multi-god scenario would cause everything. It would only take one.

There is no inherent qualitative property of godlike powers that exclude the possibility of many gods having equal abilities. How they coordinate the use of their powers is a separate issue but which does not prevent the existence of multiple gods. I.e. your assertion that there is only one god is not a logical necessity.