My first out of body experience

So you missed the reference?

Yes, sorry, I am still missing what you are saying

Yet you make a claim...

Again, I don't know what you mean here.

Through scientific studies.
And you're twisting my words. There's a difference between "not one single claim has been shown to be" and "every single claim has been shown not to be".

Do you have a reference for the scientific studies that I could read up on?

My apologies. I didn't mean to twist your words. Let me rephrase. How was it proved that there is not one single case of "astral travelling" that has been shown to be anything other than a dream/ delusion/ hallucination.

As you already responded to that, could you show me where I can read up on the studies that were done that prove that there is not one single case of "astral travelling" that has been shown to be anything other than a dream/ delusion/ hallucination?

Thanks in advance.
 
It clearly violates several physical laws. If you can violate those physical laws, then you can also defy gravity, yes?

What is an Astral Body made up of?
 
Alan McDougall said:
Greetings forum,


I have not yet described my first and other conscious mind travel experiences, so I will give a consolidated version as follows.

At about the age of twenty-five in the afternoon my wife and I were having a nap. , but instead of going to sleep I entered a cataleptic state that I now know is hypnagogic sleep. In other words, I was unable to move my body (sleep paralysis). I was aware of my surroundings and that I was laying on the bed next to my wife. Then in the area of my head, an extreme vibration and buzzing began to shake my whole being. I tried and tried to move with no avail at first, and then something weird happened. I found myself hovering just below the ceilings, looking down on the bodies of my wife and can still remember the red bed cover. That indicates some sort of mind sight.

I did not like this experience, feeling some sort of an malicious being was watching me all the time, in addition the vibration and buzzing were very unpleasant. However, this sleep paralysis vibration started to happen more and more spontaneously until I found myself outside the house one night looking at the stars.

My consciousness awareness seemed to have separated from my sleeping body. I then began to take a real interest in this phenomenon and was lead to read a book by Robert Monroe and found the term then used was astral travel. It was considered evil or even by my then Christian friends who advised me to stop as my vacant body could be possessed by an evil entity, while I was traveling into other realities. Taking their advice, I stopped trying to exit the body when the catatonic sleep paralysis came at night and eventually these experienced ceased for many years.

I started to spontaneously experience all types of other realities on my nearly nightly travels. Some of these realms where so bizarre that there are no words to express these other dimensions. Realities alternate universes other selves, in the English language. The recent thread “they all walked backward should” should give an idea to the forum.

There are other strange humanoid life forms so advanced from us that I could not get them to recognize me as a sentient being. Others were primitive, others almost like or earth but with minute differences. What we call matter is simply a wisp of smoke and I could rush through giant planets, which flashed be as rock, crystal, fire and again into the unimaginable void of the universe into the composite white light outside the confines of the universe.

Our universe at appeared to recede until it became an almost infinite dark plane, then become a huge black orb until it was just one black dot among the infinite other universe in the eternal now of existence.

All seemed on this colossal unimaginable vast scale just minute interconnected molecules of one colossal gigantic cosmic body

I did not interact with those who have passed on but appeared to remain within the material realities. However, I did experience some frightening things, such as coming back in horror to the wrong body. This person was in a small prison cell somewhere and I really got a fright and immediately found myself back in my own body. At times, I seemed to have dual awareness in that I became somehow two beings, my sleeping self-communicating with my ethereal self.

"Maybe it was all generated by my beautiful imaginative mind, but read it or tear it apart if you like"



I hope this brief summary is of some interest to the group

Regards

Alan
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The experince that you described sounds to me like the first stages of being demonicaly possesed and this should not be taken lightly. If you are religious i would recomand studying more on your religions beliefes on possesion
 
jahina said:
Yes, sorry, I am still missing what you are saying
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It was a paraphrase of your refusal to comment any further on your claims of god.

Again, I don't know what you mean here.
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It's quite simple. You made a claim (i.e that the OP was "astral travelling" and not dreaming [as if there were some actual difference]) yet have so far failed to show that there is any real difference.

Do you have a reference for the scientific studies that I could read up on?
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Google for DMT, or hallucinations or even "astral travelling debunked".

jahina said:
What is an Astral Body made up of?
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There is no evidence that an "astral body" exists. Therefore its make up would appear to be imagination or delusion.

Psycho Bound said:
The experince that you described sounds to me like the first stages of being demonicaly possesed and this should not be taken lightly.
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Oh dear, someone else more than slightly divorced from reality.
 
Originally Posted by jahina
Yes, sorry, I am still missing what you are saying ”

It was a paraphrase of your refusal to comment any further on your claims of god.

Ah yes. I thought you meant some other reference.

You made a claim (i.e that the OP was "astral travelling" and not dreaming [as if there were some actual difference]) yet have so far failed to show that there is any real difference.

I don't need to, do I? I already know there is a difference. You don't have to believe it, that is down to you.

“ Do you have a reference for the scientific studies that I could read up on? ”

Google for DMT, or hallucinations or even "astral travelling debunked".

I actually couldn't find any scientific studies, it would be great if you could post a link.

“ Originally Posted by jahina
What is an Astral Body made up of? ”

There is no evidence that an "astral body" exists. Therefore its make up would appear to be imagination or delusion.

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree.
 
jahina said:
Hi Alan

I have been told that you need to ensure that you visualise a silver thread running from your physical body to your astral body, ie. ensure you have a connection from one body to the other. This enables your astral body to be able to find its way back easily.
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I believe this is true, although I was unaware of any silver cord, and I am insulted by the suggestion of Psycho bound that it was demon possession :)

The out of body event I described in the opening post of this thread was just the first of many I have had in my now rather protracted life

Alan
 
jahina said:
I don't need to, do I?
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Yes you do.
If I claim that I have three legs and am made of cheese would you simply take my word for it?

I already know there is a difference.
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No, you don't. You think there's a difference.

I actually couldn't find any scientific studies, it would be great if you could post a link.
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Then try it in reverse: find an actual occasion where "astral travelling" has been shown to be anything more than delusion.
Or read this.
Or this.

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree.
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Again you miss the point. If someone claims the moon is made of cheese should everyone else simply agree to disagree? Is there anything admirable or worthwhile about continuing to uphold, and espouse, utter nonsense?
 
Dywyddyr said:
Then try it in reverse: find an actual occasion where "astral travelling" has been shown to be anything more than delusion.
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Yet not one case has been shown to be a delusion either. There's no proof that something can't be real in a way that offers no physical evidence that can be shared among us on Earth. Your argument is weak.

Or read this.
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Those of us who've experienced such things know that it's an experience exceedingly like what we call reality. No "proof" to the contrary could change that.

If someone claims the moon is made of cheese should everyone else simply agree to disagree? Is there anything admirable or worthwhile about continuing to uphold, and espouse, utter nonsense?
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That would be a claim about our Earthly reality, which is different than making a claim about another reality. You can't prove that it's nonsense. It's only your faith that it is.
 
BertBonsai said:
Yet not one case has been shown to be a delusion either.
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On the contrary, since they have been reproduced as a purely mental effect then they HAVE been shown to be delusion.

There's no proof that something can't be real in a way that offers no physical evidence that can be shared among us on Earth.
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For example?

Those of us who've experienced such things know that it's an experience exceedingly like what we call reality. No "proof" to the contrary could change that.
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Correction, you believe.

That would be a claim about our Earthly reality, which is different than making a claim about another reality.
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"Another reality"?
:rolleyes:
 
(Q) said:
It clearly violates several physical laws. If you can violate those physical laws, then you can also defy gravity, yes?
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i think it's pretty obvious that if you're not in the physical realm that physical laws would not apply.

and btw, gravity is unexplained. ;)
 
Lori_7 said:
i think it's pretty obvious that if you're not in the physical realm that physical laws would not apply.
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And that cop out answer is satisfactory to you Lori?

How does the spirit interact with your physical body? There must be an interface, ... so how come we cannot detect the spirit through that interface?

Do you even understand the question?
 
Lori_7 said:
i think it's pretty obvious that if you're not in the physical realm that physical laws would not apply.
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We are in the physical realm. There are no other realms.

and btw, gravity is unexplained. ;)
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So, that means you can defy gravity? Do you have a point?
 
For some reason this seems appropriate.


study.png
 
Alan McDougall:

I did not like this experience, feeling some sort of an malicious being was watching me all the time, in addition the vibration and buzzing were very unpleasant. However, this sleep paralysis vibration started to happen more and more spontaneously until I found myself outside the house one night looking at the stars.
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Its not real and if you do some searches (sounds like you have from the terms you are using) you will see that they are very common. Night tremors.

My own experiences go back to around high school age and got more intense around mid 20s. One thing, for me, is that i never traveled although it felt like i was at the beginning stages.

I know it is similar due to the fact you use the term vibration. The vibrations happen when you reach a certain point in sleep but not every part of you body is in sync with the sleep state. In a sense some people are fighting sleep and i think this is where the tremors come in. You can also psych yourself into having them by convincing yourself before hand that you are going to have one and seems to me they are somewhat related to stress. That is my own observation.

I never got to the point of OBE.

Keep a radio or t.v on and most likely they wont happen.
 
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