mutilated cattle anyone?

Geez, Hans,

With your amazing abilitiy to debunk documented evidence, you should try for a job at the State Department, or maybe even bump Ari out of his job and become the spokesman for the president.

One thing you shouldn't do, though, is disparage the testimony of the farmer who owned the mutilated animal. A farmer is a person who lives on the land and interacts with the natural environment as his way of life. He would be extremely familiar with butchering animals and would know exactly what a cut or a bite would look like. He would also be familiar with the different stages of decomposition of bodies. In short, there would be no better qualified observer than a farmer.

When you live in a concrete and pavement environment, removed from the reality of nature, you develop a skewed sense of the way natural systems work. Because of that you should do much more homework on the subject you plan to debunk so that your argument will at least sound a little bit plausible.
 
With your amazing abilitiy to debunk documented evidence, you should try for a job at the State Department, or maybe even bump Ari out of his job and become the spokesman for the president.
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Mmmm, what I'm doing is to provide documentation that contradicts other documentation. I think its sobering to find that you can find sets of documentation that arrive at opposite conclusions. It is then up to each reader t oreach his or her own conclusion, based on the perceived credibility of the documentation plus genral logic and common sense.

Im not trying to tell anybody what they should think, but this is a debate forum and I'm stating my own views and presenting the documentation that is the base for them.

Spin doctor? No, thanks, I'm not good at lying.

The mutilations are the workings of the Satanic reptilian aliens known as the Draco. They consume humans as well as cattle and the government knows everything about it (black helicopters are always seen at the site of mutilations).
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Thats cool. Mmmm, how come they dont simply buy the cattle they need? If Government gets alien technology in return for this (isnt that the story?), how come they dont seem to use it?:eek:

Hans
 
What we see here guys are two differnt worldviews. People like Hans believe that if you can explain the vast majority of the cases which fall into this pattern, then the ones which don't seem to have all the evidence in play for those given explanation most likely follow the same pattern. It's kind of like this:

Evidence Pattern (Explained Case)
A B C D E F G H I J K

Evidence Pattern (Unexplained Case)
A _ C D E F _ H I J K

Evidence Pattern (Unusual Case)
A Q C D E F _ H I J K

Since these cases have largely the same pattern, Hans will come to the conclusion that both cases have the same cause. People like me however, believe that that one in a handful case which does not line up with the others proves an unusual phenomenon.

Their is an old fable about this way of thinking, written if I remember by the Egyptian Philosopher Aesop. A young boy goes out and finds a white crow. He tells his parents, which dont' believe him because all crows are black. But, the young boy sees it with his own eyes, and since it's one in a million no one can really believe that it was real.

Their is NOTHING wrong with Hans point of view - he shouldn't be getting flamed for his point of view. By the same token his opponets should be treated with respect.

We are all thinking in differnt ways - and that's one of the beautiful things about human beings.
 
I agree, Xevious. I don't like that flaming that seems so popular on the forums. It's always been my opinion that a discussion is two or more people presenting their view in a courtious manner. Generally the most resonable position will be accepted by most people even after the flaming so the flaming seems to be doubly unnecessary.

On the National Institute for Discovery Science's web site they have several new reports of cases of cattle mutilations. Unfortunately, I can't access them with my television because you need Adobe Acrobat Reader, a free download, to see those files. The stuff that I could read there though, was very interesting. Perhaps one of you who has a computer could check out those new files at www.nidsci.org/ and let us others know what the pertinent details are? They are in the Animal Pathology Research section.
 
Hey, remember that movie Sneakers, with Dan Ackroyd as that paranoid freak who was always going on about cattle mutilations, and wanted to live in a winnebago? That was sweet.
 
I'll be reading over them a few days. They certanly have some unusual corpses on their hands.
 
They've got some VERY wierd stuff on their hands, that's all I can really say.
 
Well, thanks Xev, I appreciate your friendly and openminded attitude.

Even if some cattle ARE mutilated (but we are still missing a thoriugh report with good photos etc.), why should we call in aliens to explain it? This planet is crawling with humans, who have been known to do weirder things than cutting the asshole out of a cow.

So the boy saw a white cow? Fine, but we needn't conclude that it fell from the moon?

Hans
 
Hans, you have another good observation here - we don't have data to conclude Extraterrestrials are doing the mutilations. I myself have stated that in this very thread. I do however, think SOMETHING wierd is going on. That's all I believe.
 
I do however, think SOMETHING wierd is going on. That's all I believe.
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Mmm sure. Actually, the fact that some people do imagine that aliens mutilated their cows when it can be documented (in a number of cases) that they died a natural death and were partly eaten by scavengers, is weird enough for me.

Hans
 
Mmmm, read into the reports linked above. Not trying to conclude any thing but I have some comments:

This NIDS institute sounds very official, but it is basically a private enterprise. This can of course be fine, but we cannot know; there are no official credentials (for whatever those are worth, heheh).

Then there is their research:

WITNESS 1: Yeah, this was the last one that was calved. Now, my son came over the
next morning, and of course we got a tapped cow. Uh…and I was
talking to him about what happened, he said, you know dad, this thing
happened, I got up so fast and I was staggering around, and I said, my
God, I actually urinated trying to get my feet under me. He said, ‘What
time was that?’ and I said, ‘Oh, about 2:30.’, you know, and he said,
‘Well Jesus, dad, I wet the bed last night. Woke up about 3:00 and had
to…had to change all the beddings. I’ve never done that before in my
life!” So then I start thinking—coming in from the west, okay? Just like
the Apache did with the light off. All right. If they’re gonna tap a cow,
they’ve got to immobilize some way, so I…you know, the only thing
I’ve had in my experience that could possibly have immobilized would
be ultrasound, and I might be a hundred miles off. The one thing
ultrasound doesn’t add up with is the burns around the cows necks.
Uh…I had the…I had several cows burned. I have a steel neck chains
that holds their computer feeder transponder and identification number
around their necks, and after the…after the incident in 1999, I had
several cows that…these steel neck chains had actually burned in…into

Mmmm, so here we have a Withness whe woke up in the middle of the night and was so confused (or whatever) that he could barely stand upright (or hold his water); how much trust can we put in his testimony?

And later: The cows got burns from their iron chains:

the top of their neck and…and now that would…that would…that
would mean some type of electrical field, a possible…possible radio
wave type of electrical field…
NIDS: Microwaves could maybe heat metal.
WITNESS 1: Yeah, okay. Well maybe it’s microwave, I don’t know. But that…now
see that’d tie…that’d tie in with the neck chain burns.
NIDS: Yeah. Okay. Did you take photographs of those neck burns?
WITNESS 1: Nope.

So NIDS leads him on to microwaves, so now we can report a microwave burn. But no evidence exists, of course.

Well, all I'm saying is that we really dont know a damned thing ---- except that cattle can come to grief in a number of ways, and if we look for natural explanations, we can find them in most instances, and if we look for mysteries, we can make a lot of strange conclusions.

Hans
 
In most cases yes, the conclusion is natural. That one in a million exception is the unusal phenomenon. You personally don't find any intrigue in that needle in a haystack which is differnt from every other case.

If mutilations are real (and I bet they are), then you fall exactly into whoever is doing this's hopes... namely that the few acceptions will be dismissed with all the natural ones. That means that whatever activity is going on here is just swept under the rug, and any chance of finding out what is going on goes with it. All the time, Murders are made to appear as suicides, and sometimes the suicide ruling stands for years before murder is ever suspected.

The destruction of cattle by another individual is a serious mannor. Ranchers loose thousands of dollars when legitimate mutilations happen, and if the idea of my neighbors home being broken into and stolen from is disturbing indeed.

Let the UFOlogists believe what they want, and let mainstream scientists believe what they want. One group is too extreme, the other doesn't want to bother it's intellect with what they consider uneducated and petty people and matters.
 
In most cases yes, the conclusion is natural. That one in a million exception is the unusal phenomenon. You personally don't find any intrigue in that needle in a haystack which is differnt from every other case.
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Sure, I find mystery intriguing, but when I search the haystack and find only straws, how am I going to keep believing there actually IS a needle in there?



The destruction of cattle by another individual is a serious mannor. Ranchers loose thousands of dollars when legitimate mutilations happen, and if the idea of my neighbors home being broken into and stolen from is disturbing indeed.
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The one in a million case?? Well, that'll hardly ruin any farmer. But while most "mutilations" (I believe) are really natural, there might be some weirdos going out into fields to kill and mutilate cows, in order t oread about it in the papers, or whatever. Such people exist. I dont think its a big practical problem, but it sure is scary. Its not a scientific problem either. Its basically a media problem; once the interest stops, the weirdos will stop too -- or turn to other things, which is even scarier!

Hans
 
I think it's all just flat out wierd. Humans...MAYBE, but that's a bit of a leap in light of the evidence. Predators, also a maybe but they don't fit every case. Aliens...? Wierder and wierder...:bugeye:
 
Humans...MAYBE, but that's a bit of a leap in light of the evidence.
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Well, one of my points is, the evidence is not all too solid if you look close.

In the report I've cited much earlier in this thread, a lot of that evidence is actually taken apart. My guess for an explanation is:

Thing starts by one or two perhaps strange cases brought forward in media. These cases could be due to anthing, including misinterpretation or even fabrication; at that time nobody checked anything very thouroughly because nobody knew we had "a case".

Now, having read about a "mysterious mutilation", some people find one of theor cow dead, with parts missing and, instead of realizing that its just an ordinary scavenger job, they report a new mutilation, the always willing media push the snowball along, etc.

Now triggered by the media interest, the weirdos come in and do a few mutilations in order to watch the commotion. And of curse, there's bound to be some reports that are simply fabricated. I'd guess that if we could magically find the reasons for all the reports we would find:

Natural causes: 90%. Weirdos: 5%. Fabrication: 5%: UFOs: 0%.

Hans
 
Natural causes: 90%. Weirdos: 5%. Fabrication: 5%: UFOs: 0%.
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Unforunetly, you can't say for sure that wierdos or fabricaitons are exactly at play here, can you? I'm sorry to say you simply don't have the proof you want in that area so you are speculating just like everyone else at this point. It would be much more scientific to say:

Natural Causes: 90%
Unknown Causes: 10%
 
Agreed! For the last 10% I simply choose the most probable guess (altough it should be possible to solve by investigation).

Do you have a more probable guess?

Hans
 
Many people find it hard to believe something different is happening until unequivocal evidence is placed in their hands. This should not stop rational people from engaging in discourse on subjects that are too intellectual for those others. The independent scientists at www.nidsci.org/ have published detailed papers that document cattle mutilations and they state that the surgical procedures on the animals are not duplicatable by any technology known to us. Other scientists around the world say the same thing. Debating about the cause of the cattle mutilations can now only be a corollary to the larger debate about why the aliens/space-people are doing it.

Everyone with even a modicum of intelligence knows innately that the government is covering up the evidence they have on cattle mutilations, crop circles and UFOs. When they started their coverup they probably thought they were almost in a league with the alien visitors and that they would soon catch up to them technologically. The complete opposite has proved to be the case and now the government must know they look like complete idiots for continuing to deny the existence of things that everybody else in the world knows to be true. The only ones the government could possibly be convincing with their childish propaganda are little old ladies in nursing homes who never get out. And, of course, anyone who works for the government would have to pretend to believe the propaganda, since their jobs depend on it.

Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.), formerly the Pentagon's commander in charge of distributing recovered alien technology to the defence industries so they could reverse engineer it and integrate it into their weapons and flight systems, has written a book called 'The Day After Roswell' c.1997. Col. Corso uses documents released through the freedom of information act to prove his case. The book's forward is written by U.S. Senator Strom Thurmond. It is obvious that the U.S. government wants to gradually extricate themselves from this embarrassing coverup, or else they wouldn't have released the documents.
 
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